Not happy with changes to the gate card system
 

I asked this question of staff->

I heard a rumor from Bruce that the gate card system in the Villages is going to change. Be forewarned that I have been giving out and using the devices that are placed in car mirrors to activate the gates for over a year.

So, please tell me the reason for the change and why my cards will no longer work. Is there a way that these cards can still work?

I believe that the using the old cards and having to wave them out an open car window is archaic in this electronic age. So, if changes are made when will we receive a device that will automatically raise gates without human interaction?

A very large number of Villagers may be upset when they find out these (auto open) cards no longer work and then need to go back to the old, old way.
I am sorry that this change was not highlighted in a newsletter to let people know that this change was going to take place.

I hope you have some good news for me about this issue as it looks very bad at this point in time.​

and ->
One additional questions about data if collected. What data is collected , who has access to the data and data collected is used for what purpose.
I thought long ago that I was told no data was collected nor retained by the gate card system and not talking about the security cameras at the gates.

Thanks again,


they responded by saying ->


Thank you for reaching out regarding the gate access control system upgrade. This project was approved in September, with support from the Amenity Authority Committee, Project Wide Advisory Committee and the Village Center and Sumter Landing CDDs.

The District has been seeking a new software vendor for a number of years to replace the existing system. As growth continued year after year in concert with the volume of card reads at the gates, the incoming data began to overburden and, at times, exceed the capacity of the existing software database. As a result, there are instances of unauthorized cards successfully opening gates; when the new system is in place, only properly credentialed cards will open the gates.

The District identified Software House C-Cure as a viable alternative to replace the existing software. This software provides a robust and expandable access control system. The capacity of the database is capable of storing one (1) million gate cards and it is administered through one centralized database. An additional benefit to Software House C-Cure is that the software is compatible with nearly all existing peripheral equipment at the gate locations – motors, readers, arms, loops, network electronics etc. In addition, all gate cards issued by the District will continue to work. By implementing this solution, only the controller itself would be replaced.

The access control system at the gates continues to serve a vital role in the community with regard to traffic management, calming and monitoring. The benefits of proper management of the access control system will further enhance the overall management of gate card data, prevent card duplication and provide more robust reporting capabilities. This is a significant benefit to residents, Staff and local law enforcement agencies. Gate card transactions are utilized to understand the volume on certain roadways, identification of individuals in the event property is damaged, and law enforcement routinely asks for reporting at specific locations.

There are certain areas in the community, such as the RV lots, that have limited access and require specific credentials assigned to the gate card. Regardless of the type of access, the District does not condone the unauthorized duplication of cards. When cards are assigned, they are tied to a specific residence or contractor based on the credentials. As with any access control system, it is not expected that these would be duplicated since it would also unnecessarily burden the volume of cards in the system.

The AAC and PWAC both expressed interest in exploring options to improve the method in which the gates are activated, including the type of devices and/or methods for opening a gate arm. The first step in the project is to upgrade the back-end software. Once that is accomplished, Staff will be communicating the Committees/Boards on other opportunities to enhance the functionality of the gates.

I then replied ->

I totally disagree with this assessment and wish that a public discussion had taken place. I understand that access control systems at the gates serve to slow traffic and let golf carts cross. However many of your other comments I would question.

The few that need restricted access to RV lots could have been given special cards. What other areas and how many other Villagers are affected compared to the total Village population?

You never answered my question as to how much detailed data the system is keeping on people accessing public roads. We are not a gate restricted community.

If the volume of individual cards that a new system can handle is 1 million, then what’s the big deal about duplicates? Plus, the cards are cloned to one that is already in the system. I don’t under this concern about duplicates. What are the specific benefits to the public in this new change other than making many thousands of duplicate cards not function?
CLONED CARDS WILL NOT WORK???

I again ask what data is collected and who has access to this data. Is this data used by public or private firms? Can I access the data? A private or public firm is the only one assigning gate cards at this time? Please note that I am not discussing the gate cameras. I believe cameras which are now located at the gates help identify individuals for law enforcement and not gate cards as you suggest.

What is the total cost of the new system for both hardware and software going to be for residents? This change to the gate management system should have been presented and discussed at a large public meeting with details in the paper and on the district website beforehand.

I am on the NSCUDD board and have always advocated for preannounced large public discussions of changes we make that affect the public. NSCUDD has held many advertised large public meetings to discuss changes and I am proud we have done so because that is the way it should be done.

a link to details on the contracts found on districtgov.org

Coversheet

I appreciate your post to attempt to explain a new gate card system. But, to me, it read as mostly gobblygook. Can you condense it down to something people can understand?

I'm sure those that have these "gate card" illegally (landscapers, etc..) will also be upset. :coolsmiley:

The response seemed logical and reasonable to me.

As far as duplicates - What prevents a resident from giving a duplicate to friends in other communities? I can understand the districts stand on duplicates.

Seems to clearly state:

An additional benefit to Software House C-Cure is that the software is compatible with nearly all existing peripheral equipment at the gate locations – motors, readers, arms, loops, network electronics etc. In addition, all gate cards issued by the District will continue to work. By implementing this solution, only the controller itself would be replaced.

Can't see how it will affect cloned cards since the ancient reader system will remain the same as all that is changing is the database software. At least for the immediate future it seems to be "much ado about nothing." I think most of us will be pushing up daisies before new READER HARDWARE is brought up for discussion, decided upon and installed throughout T.V. . Personally I'd be happy to see window stickers or devices "under the hood" as my father's 40+ year old system had in his 60 year old condo development. As for the information they are keeping, I'd be more concerned with the online tracks you leave when placing online orders or joining apps like many restaurants and businesses have as well as every credit card purchase you make. I believe my "mirror pass" will outlast me.

My most pressing conserns are will the cloned gate cards still work and how much is the total cost. Still not sure as I just received this reply for staff->
__________________________________________________ _________________________________

Good afternoon,

I appreciate your perspective, but this was publicly advertised on the website and on the agenda for consideration at a total of four (4) public meetings.

The roadways are public and individuals always have the option to either enter through a staffed gate, or open the gate utilizing the red button. The gate cards are issued in a pair to every home at closing, and homeowners can also purchase additional gate cards for a $15.00 charge from the District office. A total of four gate cards can be issued per home. The gate cards are assigned to the home and when used report the location, time stamp and card number.

As with any information maintained by a governmental entity, in the event a public records request is received we review the request and respond in accordance with the law. There are certain factors that prevent data from being released immediately, such as if the data has been obtained by law enforcement and tied to an active investigation.

Here is a link to the Project Wide Advisory Committee Meeting agenda, which was the first meeting that this was presented at: Coversheet
Please note that the new gate maintenance contract cost, combined with the software upgrade, results in a $200,000 savings compared to what we were previously paying for gate maintenance alone. In year two, following the upgrade, we will realize even greater savings.

Duplication of any type of credentials for an access control system is not favorably looked upon. As I mentioned in the initial email, in order for the District to pursue advancements in how the gates are operated (such as bar codes, proximity readers etc.) , we have to upgrade the software to support it. These are upgrades that the AAC and PWAC have requested updates on once this initial phase is complete.
__________________________________________________ ________

It's good to hear that we will be saving $200,000 per year in the future but at what cost to us now. I just like to see the whole picture. So, I will ask again about the total cost and if current cloned cards will still work. While "not favorably looked on ", it isn't illegal and I believe it is a much better way to open our gates than the old cards. They are very vague about other upgrades to the system that might be implemented at some future date. I can understand this yet..

I don't understand the angst over duplicate cards. What difference does it make? The red button allows anyone to access any village with no need for a card! I think a bureaucrat somewhere is bored or trying to justify their existence. Sometimes I believe I'm actually living in the movie "Idiocracy".

It just doesn't matter
 

I use the little red button when driving the cart because we have 2 gate cards for our cars. What information is important to the powers that manage our roads and whatever other aspects the data collected might serve? The gates help control the flow of traffic for users of the Multi Modal Paths and that is important. Does it matter if you use a card reader or just push the button to open the gate? Either method forces you to stop before going through it. Just make sure every vehicle passing through the gates is recorded in the event of criminal activity.

A couple of key sentences:

"The first step in the project is to upgrade the back-end software. Once that is accomplished, Staff will be communicating the Committees/Boards on other opportunities to enhance the functionality of the gates. "

"As I mentioned in the initial email, in order for the District to pursue advancements in how the gates are operated (such as bar codes, proximity readers etc.) , we have to upgrade the software to support it. These are upgrades that the AAC and PWAC have requested updates on once this initial phase is complete.

If traffic control was the only objective, the entry gates could be configured to operate the same as exit gates. As they sometimes do during construction.

the software cannot handle data for perhaps 100 thousand swipes? Even if the number is twice that, seems kinda far fetched with the technology available today.

Someone needs to contact Florida based Cyber Ninjas. Those folks are apparently geniuses in counting and handling very large volume of data.

Just push the red button.

I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest the "angst" over clone cards is all about the money. Isn't it always?
I couldn't guess as to how many clone cards are in circulation/use over the years, but each one would be taking away $$ or rubs against whom ever has the contract as the service provider.
None of this is about making life better for residence, because if it was, the realization that the entire antiquated system needs an overhaul/update to, oh maybe updated to circa year 2000'sh tech perhaps. (sarcasm)

There are countless fairly simple programs out there in use right now that utilize decal type scannable's, 1/3rd the size of a credit card and can be read from 100+ft away w/ vehicles in full motion and can handle millions of scannable's, take pictures/vid, record digi info, automatically open/close gates, etc. all without a single interaction of the driver.

Besides the entire system is rather ineffective as actual "access control" when anyone can hit the red button. Knowledge of, that is fairly widely known outside the villages....NO card needed.

Bingo.

In Tampa many gated communities had a sticker on the side window with a bar code to enter your neighborhood.
The good part was you didn’t have to open your window.
Why couldn’t we have this instead of the card?

That's what I was thinking - more like the turnpike transponders.
If storing a million cards is a big upgrade, the current system must be very primitive.

Guess some folks are not aware that the red buttons open the gates or the person that tailgated me throughout the gate a couple nights ago just didn't want to roll down their window.

So are the car mirror strips that activate without using card considered “duplicate” cards? And they won’t work in the near future?

I don’t see what the issue is, I am in favor of no duplication of the gate cards issued to residents. Duplicates allow non villagers to enter through the MMP gate in the historic section. Duplicates allow non residents, who don’t pay for the MMP’s, to have easier access to gate passes they have no right to. The particular gate referred to has no red button and is only opened with a gate card, as it should be. We keep one of each of our gate cards hidden in our golf carts specially so we can pass through this gate. We never use a gate card in our car, no need, just hit the red button.

Not bingo unless you like bango. When exiting you can see any carts or pedestrians crossing the road with no obstructions. BUT, big BUT, when entering, the view of the crossing is blocked by the gate mechanism, plantings, and often a gate booth. So when you come in through the gates you cannot safely proceed coasting thru, and the crossing carts and walkers can not see you coming. So entry must be slowed/stopped much more intently than exiting.

Gate card access and monitoring seems ridiculous for a non-gated community. Programming a slightly longer delay in opening the entry gates in 'automatic' mode would have just as significant an impact as waving a gate card. The exit gates which are in automatic mode actually impede traffic flow if you think about it. At the exit gates vehicles positioned to trigger the automatic gate are directly in the golf cart lane whereas vehicles at the entry gates wait outside the golf cart lane. Think of a constant flow of traffic both in and out of the gates simultaneously and you can envision stoppage of the golf cart lane at the exit gate. With a constant flow of traffic through an exit gate golf cart traffic is stopped until the constant flow of exit traffic is interrupted. Many, if not all, manned gates have no bearing on traffic flow other than merging two lanes of traffic to a single lane. There is no golf cart traffic at most of these gates. There are many gates that are in 'no golf carts allowed' areas. One would have to assume these exist to give the impression of a gated, restricted access community rather than to aid traffic flow.

Duplicate
 

I could never understand the use of the gates. ABSOLUTELY ANY CAN COME INTO THE VILLAGES. If the sole purpose is to slow traffic, use the same system for leaving the Villages.

I’m good with whatever those assigned to make these decisions decide. Let them do their job. I’ll concentrate on retirement and living in peace and smell the roses.

someone is screwing with his $$$$ plain and simple

The exit gates don't close between cars.

What's the big deal?
 

I guess residents have an aversion to rolling down their window and using their access card.:throwtomatoes: Really a strenuous task for sure. I have always been a proponent of using the cards. Perhaps they want to track how often actual residents use the gates. Perhaps they want to prevent "Mirror Clone" card users from approaching the gate terminals too closely or too fast just and potentially damage the equipment because they think it activated and crash through the arm (I have witnessed this three times). I think they should give some type of bonus for residents that use their valid cards for the amount of times they use it instead of pushing the button. Upgrading the technology is a good thing.

Exactly what I was thinking. What brain surgeon came up with the system that is in place now?

It was never meant to be system to restrict entry to Village residents only, it is primarily a traffic control system. Security is achieved by the video surveillance, community watch drive throughs, and watchful neighbors. At many MMP crossings you cannot see entering traffic, but you can see if the gate is down.

PS: Brought to you by the same "brain surgeons" that developed the most successful retirement community in human history.

We are a gated community which, I believe, reduces your insurance premiums… at least my agent asked and that’s what they told me

You must not get around TV much. I would say that many of the manned gates have either a MMP crossing at them or are on cart lane streets. Pretty sure it would be easier to name the manned gates that don't fit the description than the ones that do.

We are NOT a gated community; we are a community that happens to have gates for traffic control. The roads are owned by the county and therefore we cannot restrict access.

As far as insurance goes, check your itemized invoice. My homeowner's insurance charged $151.00 MORE for being in a "secured community". No idea how that makes any sense. Then again, they charged $4 more for being a single-story home. Another head scratcher.

For sure, I read this as good news.

Hopefully they are preparing the system with a more state of the art resident gate entry system.

Absolutely. You can count them on one hand.

It's great being retired. Can sit around all day and read enlightening posts by so many experts.

When were the oldest gates that use the cards installed? That's how old the software could be. It could be running an a Pentium PC or a VAX minicomputer, and have severe limitations compared to modern computers. And have extremely high maintenance costs - companies don't like supporting very old systems; they want you to upgrade to the latest. Upgrading/replacing the back-end system every 10 or 20 years makes complete sense.

Next would be upgrading the card readers & cards. How many gates are there? Every single one of them would need to be replaced, and probably rewired & networked with wi-fi or modern network cabling. That doesn't sound cheap. Or, the whole system could be scrapped in favor of license plate readers - Oh, wait, FL doesn't require front plates, so that's out. Every resident would need to get the new dongle. That sounds like a nightmare.

And everything can't be replaced all at once, so there would need to be a time (months? years?) when both systems worked at the same time. That's not cheap or easy.

The gates control traffic flow. They tend to be at places where golf-cart traffic intersects car traffic. The gates let both types of traffic see each other. If there was nothing, I think we'd have a lot more golf-carts getting run over by contractors & residents.

Sounds to me like the people in charge publicized the decision making as required & OP missed the memo.

I could care less!

The gates simply are there to slow everyone down.

Normally when they're functioning properly, the gate closes and opens for each car.

As others noted, they help the carts on the MMP when they are crossing the roadways.

Most people stop, even when the gate arms are missing because someone in their car or cart didn't wait properly.

When the gate arms are damaged and missing, some vehicles zoom thru without slowing down or stopping. In the last 2 weeks after the tropical storm recovery, I see a number of arms that have been damaged by inconsiderate drivers. They also ignore the temporary stop signs.

Cloned cards may be a problem. With other technologies, cloning is and should be difficult or impossible to do. Imagine if it was easy to clone your chip-enabled credit or ATM card. Bad enough that store and restaurant people can take a photo of your card and sell to others to use.

Bottom line, whatever system is used for safety at the gates, let's hope that improvements make it safer for everyone.

Don’t see the big deal. It’s not gated anyway. Just have to press the button and anyone is in.🤷*♀️

You know this because you have lived in every retirement community in human history, lol.
It is an archaic system. Maybe the brain surgeons subcontracted the gate system out to Curly, Larry and Mo?
Honestly I really don’t care what gate system is used here. I have nothing really to complain about living here in the most successful retirement community in history. Only one that does is probably the guy making money on cloning cards.

Or……did you know the card works without even rolling your window down!!! Just pull up close enough and bam.