Greens fees for select executive course?
 

I know this post will be crucified…..

But, if the districts picked ONE executive in each “area” (i.e. north of 466; 466 to 466A; 466a to 44, south of 44) and charged $20 or $25 a round, BUT the courses get an extra level of maintenance, basically, they are awesome courses.
Maybe tee times are spaced out an extra minute or two.

Would you support it? Would you pay to play that course?

You still have the others you pay for the trail fee. They would be maintained as they are now, some good some bad. They may not be the most interesting courses, but the conditions would be REALLY good.

We already pay for maintenance. This "green fee for better conditions" is just a toe in the door for green fees at all courses, or the end of free golf. Those who use carts already pay trail fees. If the current landscapers cannot do the job, do what the homeowners do, fire them and get someone else who will do a better job for less.

There should be better oversight of golf course maintenance by Village Admistrator’s. Also an advisory of residence to call attention on conditions. Ambassadors on courses should enforce RULES and managers should back their decisions.

Agree with your statements, but if you voted yes for green fees, I believe you might want to rethink gifting more $ for those who are showing they aren't up to the task. Just my opinion.

No, it would contradict the premise these executive courses were built on. We pay for them in our amenities. Either all executive courses are “improved” or none.

Not trying to shoot down the idea of finding a way to better maintain the executive courses, but it is fair to point out that these types of discussions seem to happen every year about this time. Time, fewer people on the courses and more rain in the next few months will go a long way toward rectifying the situation.

Nevertheless it is a fact that some of the executive courses seem to be maintained better than others. Rather than selective maintenance, here are some ideas of better overall maintenance of the executive courses, keeping in mind that the cost of just about everything has gone up and course maintenance is no exception:

1. Charge a bit more for trail fees, say 10% more for motorized carts and raise the cost of pull carts from $1 to $2 per cart.
2. Close each course for scheduled maintenance on a regular basis (once every two weeks?)
3. RIGOROUSLY enforce the rule of no unauthorized motorized carts on the course (Seeing people violate that rule is becoming more and more common).
4. Do maintenance as a preventative rather than a restorative. Allowing a course to go downhill to the point where it needs (say) $100,000 in repairs over two weeks while the course is closed is ridiculous if the same amount (or probably much less) spent in routine maintenance on an open course is the other option.
5. Have the “ambassadors’ (as others have suggested) be more than just smile-and-wave guys and have them actually ENFORCE rules. Pushcarts on greens—cigarette butts negligently cast onto the course—unfilled divots—unprepared ball marks on greens—etc. etc., could all be minimized by better rule enforcement.
6. Allow more time between tee times. Even one more minute between tee times, when spread over a year, means significantly less traffic on the courses.

There are most likely a lot of other things that could be done to improve playability and minimize major repairs. Unfortunately the powers-that-be seem all too hesitant to upset the status quo, unless there is absolutely no other choice.

Here ya go……let us know what the response was.

Mitch Leininger, GCSAA
Director of Executive Golf Maintenance

Tamara Rolle
Administrative Assistant to Executive Golf Maintenance

Dalton Parker
Supervisor of Executive Golf Maintenance

Jack Winters
Supervisor of Executive Golf Maintenance

Contact Us
Executive Golf Maintenance
1026 Canal Street
The Villages, FL 32162
Phone: 352-674-1885
Fax: 352-674-1805

Well that’s 4 people getting paid to much for what we’re setting it’s quite obvious they never get out of the office

This weeks District Bulletin has info on executive courses.
https://www.districtgov.org/PDFView/...20230330001301

No!!!!!!!!!!!!

Demand current courses be kept to a better than current standards. Too many of the executive courses are at a laughable unacceptable condition.

We are already paying for that!

___________________________________________

:censored:

So you are talking $20 to $25 for 9 holes which are almost all par threes?? That would be $40 to $50 for 18 holes.

You can play the most expensive championship course - Southern Oaks - for $72.50 and the cheapest - Orange Blossom Hills - for $52.50.


https://www.golfthevillages.com/images/Winter2023.pdf

Or, do they ever come in? Old covid protocol. Just check in by phone.

"They would be maintained as they are now"? You mean mostly unplayable? Why should we continue to pay at all
for abject failure and continuing decline of our courses? Why should we continue to employ managers who have demonstrated they can't (or won't? ) do the job? What do the big leagues do if the team is not winning? Fire the manager.
And, I am really curious about the origin of this "trial balloon" to see if we all could be tempted to throw money at this to get it fixed. I wouldn't be surprised to find the decline of conditions wasn't allowed to happen as a scheme to make more money, but then I'm a suckered for a good cosiracy.

Can’t help but reply ! PLEASE LEAVE YOUR IDEAS ABOUT TAXES AND GOVERNMENT NORTH OF FLORIDA! The Villages have done fine for 30 years and here you go. Give us a break. You have no idea…..

First of all, I don’t think the operators of the Villages are trolling TOTV to get ideas on how to run things.
Not sure what you’re talking about.

This is the ultimate Free Market Idea.
The current system is very New York/Californiaish. We are paying a government agency a fee (i.e. a tax) and they are taking care of golf for us.

There are hundreds of posts here about bad Executive Golf Conditions. Most suggestions are to complain to the Development Districts and have the government make the courses nicer/more playable.
What happened at Palmetto? Government shut if down and is cleaning it up.

What this suggestion is, if you want GREAT executive conditions, let the free market decide, let the user pay.

The NORTH OF FLORIDA approach is to ask big government to pay.

No and no need for further comment!

AGREE. Stay out of our wallets and purses. As always, trying to spend OPM.

NO WAY!! We should fire the golf course management and maintenance!! Get qualified INDEPENDENT management/course maintenance firm that cares, has good skill sets that will improve ALL the courses. They currently over cut (shave) the grass, poor
green's care and flat out waste our money. We need an AD HOC committee of resident owners to organize and check how our money is being wasted. It is not a money problem...we are flushed with money! WE ARE BEING HOSED!!!!!!!!!!!!

Good info in that article but left out one important issue why the courses are in bad shape, the people who play them. Every cart has a sand bottle less than 10% of them get used. For those who can hit the ball on the green only about 10% fox ball marks. Then let’s include those who think it is ok to drive a cart on the grass and you get an idea on why the grass is in the shape that it is. No matter of maintenance is ever going to make up for that.

I wonder how many non-residents are on the courses through out the year not giving a hoot about the wear and tear on the executive courses?

While a resident is supposed to be with their guests is that always enforced?

Not true. Guests who are at least 19 can play the executive courses without a resident.

You said it very well!

Or they could make the walkers pay their fare share.

I’m not sure what or why most of our executive courses are in such bad shape? It’s my understanding that courses in certain counties aren’t allowed to water as often as needed?? Maybe maintenance people would like to do better but aren’t allowed to water as often as they’d like?? Often when you ask the standard excuse for conditions is because the amount of play. To that I say, have you ever played Baseline in Ocala? That course sees an enormous amount of play but is always in wonderful shape compared to our executive courses?? So what gives? Why can’t we do better here? I don’t know everything that needs to happen behind the scenes but it does make me wonder why??

Do the people in charge of golf course maintenance (see post #7) ever have public forums where they take questions?

They do that now. Fair share is zero.

In a nut shell!
 

Well said!

That would be an innocent start to an inevitable march to pay to play with minimum course condition improvements. There is plenty of money in the developers purse to pay for maintenance. This is an unjustified price increase. John

Lopez Courses
 

Why are the courses around Lopez (Briarwod, Walnut Grove etc always in better shape then te rest of the courses? They get as much play based on what I see on the tee time service.

Looks like you can call them anytime.
Public forum……..that would turn into a shouting match!

Ad hoc committee……
Your voice is your elected district board member. Have you spoken to him/her?

I will be finding some other place to play if they start charging for the executive courses, as we are already paying for those in our amenities!

Interesting fact: In 2004, the annual trail fee was $128.40. In 2005 it went up to its present amount of $141.24. That's 18 years with no increase. Not that I want to spend more, but I think they've held the line pretty well.

To answer your two questions: "NO" and "NO". The folks who run the execs collect amenities fees from 138,000 people (~70,000 homes) every month.

My fee is $175.31/month. That's over $11,011,700/month ($132,140,400/year) taken in by the amenities authority. If they can't budget sufficient funds to maintain the courses, the primary draw for The Villages, than somebody needs to be booted out and a better manager installed.

Oops! Minor miscalculation. It comes to $12,271,700/month ($147,260,400/year). $15 million here, $15 million there, pretty soon you're talking real money!!!

Thank you, this is very informative.

Mother Nature takes care of all golf courses.
 

This is the driest Winter EVER

Interesting read. The basic summary is that two factors, the weather and the amount of player traffic are responsible for the conditions. Given that the weather is a constant, which is out of human control, the amount of player traffic is the only variable which can be controlled. Since the conditions were MUCH better 5 or 6 years ago, before a crap load of new homes were built without a corresponding increase in available golf holes per rooftop, logic would dictate that increased player traffic is the culprit.

Simple solution, build more executive courses until the amount of player traffic is reduced to a level that allows the courses conditions to return to what they used to be 5 or 6 years ago.

Yes, but check the Amenities Fee. That's what supports the execs. The trail fees are just icing on the cake. When I moved here in 2005 they were $125/month. Now they are $175.31/month. That's a 40.248% increase.

I haven't played an Exec in a while but aren't carts supposed to stay on the cart trail except for the occasional Par 4 and the rare Par 5 holes? How do carts wear out the fairways if they aren't driving on them?