Motorized vehicles on the walking/bike trails
 

Would like to hear people’s opinion. I feel motorized vehicles should only be allowed on multimodal paths or on the street within The Villages. In fact, I wish the District would prohibit any MOTORIZED device that exceeds 10 MPH (this would allow disabled or handicap scooters to still use the walking and bike trails). In reality, the e-bikes and some of the scooters travel as fast or faster than most golf carts (I have been passed going 21mph in my cart by e-bikes numerous times.) The only real difference is the width of the two modes of transportation. The stability could also be an issue on an e-bike as they avoid the walkers on the narrower paths. It is dangerous to have anything traveling at higher speeds on the walking/bike trails where most people using the trail are enjoying their walk or a casual bike ride. With the explosion of e-bikes in the Villages, I feel more guidelines are necessary for the walking/bike paths. Right now, I feel it is only a matter of time before something happens. What is your opinion? What would be your recommendations for change, if any?

It has been "only a matter of time" for at least three years now.

I have never been passed by an e-bike while in my golf cart. I think there was actually one time I was behind an e-bike traveling close to 20mph. Every other time I have encountered an e-bike it has been traveling less than 17mph (the speed at which I decide to pass a slower vehicle). What area has the 23+mph e-bikes?

My opinion: Forget banning things. Treat e-bikes as bicycles (as I believe Florida law does). Expect/demand that all users of the trails behave/operate safely.

Keep trying. I’m 80 and ride an Ebike, if I didn’t have it I wouldn’t be riding at all. Most bikes I see on the trails are Ebikes. Most pedal only road bikes are on the street. When I get to the point that everything I do scares me I’ll stay in my recliner.

There is another thread similar to this one that was posted a few days ago. My response then and still is that everyone must follow the standard traffic rule- slow traffic to the right, fast traffic to the left. I have been on hiking, biking, multi-model paths in many different cities. Everyone follows this standard rule. Walkers stay as far to the right as possible on any path allowing faster vehicles to pass them on the left. It is the walker's responsibility to stop walking when being passed if necessary to do so.

We have all learned this in grade school. Remember when you were led by your teacher in a single file staying to the right? Stopping if there was danger?

Everyone can move happily and freely on the paths as long as everyone follows the traffic rules. It is done successfully throughout the world even in large cities. Walkers heed to all faster moving traffic and stay out of the way by keeping to the far right of any path and stopping if dangerous.

No! It is not possible for a walker to always walk facing traffic. What if the walker's destination is the same as the biker's? You both must move on the same path in the same direction. It is the walker's responsibility to stay to the far right on the path allowing faster traffic to pass on the left.

If anyone knows how it is done in the villages, please let me know. I am an avid walker and have never run into a problem except here in the villages. I do not want to be hit by a faster moving vehicle. Thanks!

I've been passed recently by an e-bike while I was driving in my golf cart, in the Historic section. We don't have MMPs here except for one small strip up by the country club. We drive our carts in the street just like other motor vehicles, and the POSTED speed limit is 25mph except along Paradise Park, where it's 15 mph.

Not only was I passed by this e-bike, it was a guy sailing through the stop sign, without even slowing down, and passed me when I was at my top cruising speed of 20.3. Considering the speed at which he passed me, I'd say he was going closer to 30 than 25, so he ran a stop sign, and was speeding.

E-bikes can go in excess of 35mph at full throttle, some are even able to go as high as 45mph. They need to not be allowed on MMPs or walking/biking trails. I think they should require registration and a drivers license, just like mopeds do.

I think for the very first time, c h o k I n g agree with you!

Posted signs stating that 20 mph is the maximum speed limit would also help. Some owners of golf carts rev up their carts allowing them to travel at higher speeds. Everyone should follow the max speed rules and police should be allowed to ticket the offenders.

For some elderly residents, E bikes are their only means of transportation. As long as they follow the traffic rules, I do not see this as a problem. I believe it is the younger crowd who are whizzing by on the paths. Out for a joy ride getting a kick out of their speed. We are all grown adults, Act like it! If you want to race your vehicle go to tracks that allow it. Stop making your need for speed a detriment to your neighbors.

Just for clarity reason, I was really only talking about limiting E-Bikes, etc. on the walking paths, not the multimodal paths.

Most ebikes are limited to 20mph. There are some manufactured that have a 28mph limit. No ebikes that I have seen or heard of will go any faster than that without modifications. No manufactured ebike that I’m aware of will go more than 20mph without peddling. Ebikes are here to stay.

Once again, because of a few bad apples, every e-bike owner should be punished with an outright ban on the walking/bike paths. I own 4 e-bikes and ride responsibly as do almost all e-bike riders. Anyway, how are you planning on enforcing the ban? Good luck with that.

If I was going to ban anything it would be those non-golf carts, as in Atomic cars, from the MMP's. If Atomic vehicles are allowed then what about quads, go carts, Kei mini-trucks, etc.

Finally, it is in the U.S. Constitution (somewhere) that bicycles do not have to stop for traffic signs/signals if they can safely ascertain that the roadway is clear.

They are limited to between 20 and 28mph on roads in the USA. Golf carts that are set to go over 20mph are required to change their designation to LSVs, not golf carts, and must be registered, insured, and the driver must have a valid drivers license in Florida.

E-bikes are allowed to be set to go faster than golf carts, AND faster than LSVs (which aren't supposed to be set past 25mph but often are).

And a simple google search on "e-bike top speed" returned an entire page of results showing brands and manufacturers and advertisements for e-bike companies boasting about their high-speed e-bikes. So that indicates that - you had (up until just now) a very limited knowledge of the top speed of e-bikes.

How is it a punishment? No one is banning e-bikes from the roads. They want to ban them from the walking/bicycle paths, where MOTOR vehicles are not permitted (except for electric wheelchairs and motility vehicles). E-bikes have motors. Their motors are electric-powered, not gas powered, but they're still motors. If their motor is set to allow the rider to throttle higher than 25mph, then it shouldn't belong on the MMPs either. If it's set to 20 or less, then sure put them on the MMPs but keep them off the walking/bicycling trails.

Just curious are e-bikes allowed on Buena Vista, Morse, 466, and 441?

And if so which ones are allowed?

It's bizarre a bicycle can cross 441 at the light from Spanish Springs to Historic side but not golf carts.

They're permitted, because there exists no laws regarding e-bikes yet. Just like when commercial civilian mopeds first came out, no one needed a license, or registration, or insurance, or even a helmet to drive one. Because they were new. Legislation can't legislate for something that hasn't ever previously existed.

Eventually all states came up with laws about mopeds. The same will eventually happen with e-bikes. Until then, we're stuck without any actual laws regarding them.

Obviously e-bike riders will want no legislation at all.
Obviously people who have had to be inconvenienced at the very least, harmed at the most, by e-bikes, want some legislation.
Most people who haven't ever experienced or witnessed an e-bike in action will either a) have no opinion, b) be skeptical, but not suspicious, or c) be perfectly fine with no legislation.

We already have laws about the little zip-scooters, those things that look like skateboards with a handle and a loud but small gas motor that shoots people through parking lots at 20mph. We have laws for ATVs, and for LSVs, and motor scooters. There is even a statute regarding the category of vehicles in which a Segway qualifies. Now we just need for legislation to catch up with reality, because those e-bikes aren't going anywhere. And the more people who have them, the more risk for accidents and injury due to people not really knowing what they should, or shouldn't do, when riding them or being passed by them.

For the time being remember this: In the state of Florida, e-bikes are bicycles.

Bicycles are allowed on walking/biking paths, MMPs, and most roadways to include crossing 441. There can be local restrictions on bicycles and these would apply to e-bikes as well.

I prefer e-bikes on the multi modal paths since they go fast enough so they are less likely to cause congestion like regular bikes frequently do. I can understand how they could be dangerous on the pathways commingling with walkers at higher speeds.

I was taught that it is safest to walk facing the oncoming traffic.
You can see what is coming, and take appropriate avoiding action if need be.
Regarding the biker going to same destination, he would be in the other lane anyway, and no problem at all.
Walking with traffic coming from behind in TV, is a recipe for disaster.

We are talking about two different issues.

First issue: As a walker choose a path where you can see oncoming traffic. This is Usually on the left.

Second issue: once on the best chosen path, never walk down the middle! Walk on the far right! This allows bikes, scooters, joggers etc to pass on the left without hitting you or falling off their bike.

I thought the OP was ONLY about bikes coming up from behind. This is why I stated when walking stay on the far right. You never know if a biker or something will come up from behind. If one does, if you were walking on the far right of that path, there will be enough room for that biker to pass you safely to the left.

I just hope that more than a couple people will make this decision if it ever comes up. Maybe you can be the cop that patrols TV with a radar gun. This is another subject that I’m done with.

Why do you continue to ask the same question and expect different answers?

Not expecting anyone to agree with me. With so many new and different types of trails with much more traffic just wanted clarification. No matter which path you walk there is always going to be someone behind you, someone doing something different, someone with a destination or need different than yours, ..... I just want to be safe!

I am 60 yrs old and have never been in any type of traffic accident, walking, biking, or in a vehicle. Maybe I should just continue to trust my instincts and not ruin your day by asking questions. Sorry, you felt the need to belittle me! Won't happen again!

Found this explanation when looking for the Florida Law. I do believe that there are E-bikes in the Villages that exceed 20 mph and are therefore not considered Bikes.


"Florida law places a 20 mph cap on the top speed of the electric bicycle. Any electric assisted pedal bike that exceeds that top speed capability to 30 mph is considered a Class E moped and a license and registration is required. E bikes are only allowed on sidewalks under pedal power. There are high performance models available that can reach speeds of 80 mph and are classified as motorcycles."

And I (and others) gave you a sound suggestion to do just that...

You just didn't want to take that advice..

If you walk on the left, facing traffic, who is going to be coming up behind you?

And I've already told you to make your own decision and take your chances...

How you see that as "belittling" is ponderous...

It looks like that might be dated information. From the Florida Statutes Chapter 316:

316.003(23)(c) “Class 3 electric bicycle” means an electric bicycle equipped with a motor that provides assistance only when the rider is pedaling and that ceases to provide assistance when the electric bicycle reaches the speed of 28 miles per hour.

That would be a different bike. There are a few different types of e-bikes.

Most e-bikes go < 20 mph from the factory, I can usually pass all e-bikes pretty easy in the golf cart. My e-bike going down a steep hill with pedal assist 5 can get me in the 20’s mph but we don’t have these type of hills here, so the 35 mph is quite an exaggeration. Are there some e-bikes in the world that can go over 35 mph or even 45 mph. Probably not if purchased legally and not altered.

Why are e-bikes limited to 20 mph?
Why is There a 20 MPH Speed Limit on Electric Bikes in USA?
The CPSA imposes a 20mph speed limit on electric bikes in order to protect consumers from injury. Electric bikes that go faster than 20mph can pose a danger to riders, as they are more likely to lose control and crash.

I am so happy that our Forefathers, after rebelling against the world's greatest superpower, took the time to specify that bicyclists do not have to obey traffic signs if they feel they don't have too. Appreciate you bringing this to our attention!

Although stated as facts this is incorrect. Ebikes throttle only can only go 20 mph. With pedal assist the maximum is 28 mph.

I have e-biked on walking paths and I walked the walking paths. Most bikes I have encountered on the walking paths, traveling at a higher rate of speed, have been non-e-bikes. If people are considerate of others, there is not a need to have bans. We are retired, take like easy!!

A different serial number? A different color?

The statement was, ""Florida law places a 20 mph cap on the top speed of the electric bicycle." The statement is not true, Florida does not have such a cap,

Florida recognizes that there are electric bicycles that have pedal assistance up to 28mph. Florida labels these as Class 3 electric bicycles. Florida then goes on to say that electric bicycles have the same rights and restrictions as non-electric bicycles.

One question would be what happens with an electric bicycle that has a top speed greater than 28mph? My guess is nothing happens with them. My guess is the police have better things to do than inspect expensive bicycles.

Thanks for the response so by what your saying e- bikes are allowed on Buena Vista, 466 and 441. Sounds bizarre and not really safe but if that is the case I may need to invest in one.

As someone with only a golf cart this could open my world to things like the shopping plaza across Rolling Acres and crossing 441 to go to Home Depot, etc.

If walkers would stay to the far right or left instead of walking in the middle of the path, you wouldn't have any concerns. The paths are for everyone to enjoy, not just walkers. Share the paths, don't hog them.

Yes, the walking trails in the south should be just for walking/jogging. They are too narrow for bicycles, e-bikes, scooters, skateboards, etc. to share with pedestrians. They also have lots of blind curves and wooden bridges (behind Bradford/St Catherine) and a vehicle traveling faster then a person walking is a hazard to all involved.

Somewhat agree. There are e-bikes that you don’t even need to pedal. I see these flying by my house often. My e-bike will not assist me unless I pedal so it doesn’t seem bad. I see a guy weaving back and forth on an electric skateboard. I do worry about these people going so fast that they will cause an accident with a walker

So...is the issue the speed of the e-bike, or just that you don't like e-bikes, period? If speed is the main concern, there are plenty of cyclists riding conventional, not power assisted, bicycles that could easily fall into your crosshairs. Just because a bicycle has an electric motor to assist with pedaling does not automatically turn it into something ready for the Bonneville Salt Flats.

My wife and I have e-bikes, and we enjoy our time riding on both the MMPs, and the walking/bicycle paths. Our bikes do not have a throttle, and only provide assistance when pedaling. We rarely get to speeds over 15mph. Folks who want to ban everything except what they are doing are annoying at a minimum, and dangerous in the extreme. Use good common sense, practice situational awareness, and live and let live. You'll be a lot happier.

Nice try, but you don't get to put spin on a state statute and make it appear to say something it doesn't. Florida statutes specifically exempt bicycles and electric bicycles from the definition of a motor vehicle. It really is just that simple.

E-bikes are Bicycles per FL
 

Florida declares e-bikes as bicycles and so are allowed everywhere bicycles are allowed. This does indeed blur the motorized/non-motorized line.

(And bicycles can go everywhere, roads, streets, MPPs, pathways. sidewalks, but not Interstate highways.)

Adding speed limits for e-bikes is folly - bicyclists generally travel above 10 MPH already and can easily exceed 20 MPH. (I’ve done 30+ downhill with the wind.)

E-bike riders should ring a bell and announce when passing on pathways - same as bicyclists.

Walkers need to stay to the right on pathways and be alert for e-bikes and bicycles passing. The stay-to-the right rules is especially important on blind corners.

(MPPs, streets and roads have motorized traffic so walkers should stay to the left on these places. This too is confusing because MMPs and pathways look alike.)

E bike
 

Bikes should prohibited from all golf cart lanes in the road. Dangerous as golf carts go into the road to pass the bike. Marsh Bend Trail has a bike/walking trail next to the road, so the ignorant bike rider should use it not the cart lane. Stupid is as stupid does

My wife and I have 4 ebikes. I researched the topic thoroughly before buying. e-bikes CANNOT go 35-45 mph at full throttle. Throttles are limited to 20 MPH. Some e-bikes can go in excess of 20 MPH via pedaling and power assist, but usually the top end of assist is 28 mph. Anything going 35-45 mph is not an e-bike or is a modified one.

Maybe we should eliminate golf carts and save that lane for bikes.