When will we switch from tax at the pump to tax per mile???
 

Just wondering… at what point do you think we will need to switch from a gas tax at the pump to tax per mile of driving? Currently there are approximately 1% of all cars on the road are EVs and in 2022 according to Car and Driver, in 2022, 4.6% of all new cars sold are EVs. By 2025 that number is looking to be 10% and by 2035, 35%. From a back of envelope calculation using some average numbers, 12000 miles of driving a year would be about $250 +/- in an annual tax for a standard passenger sedan.

Here’s my calculations… Let’s say for example all cars with 4 wheels and weigh between 2500 and 4000 pounds get 25 MPG. The average gas tax across the country is $.55 per gallon with CA being $.85 and MO being $.35 per gallon. Motorcycles and very light cars could pay less, larger cars/hummers/large pickups and cargo vans pay more as they do today because their MPG is much lower.

My suggestion would be to claim you mileage driven evert Yeager when you register your car and pay the tax at that time… no need for some sophisticated tracking system on each car. Of course, I’m sure the current Tesla and some of the others are already tracking miles driven.

Honor system?????

Would be better to drop all gas taxes and distribute that expected revenue in registration fees across every vehicle.

Do you ever watch COPs? Most of the people they stop don't have a license, registration, or insurance.

My concern is that it won't be a transition, it will be inaddition to.... Always difficult to impossible to get the government to stop a revenue stream....

Agree. They will say that gas taxes will decline as less gas is used. Therefore no need to transition, just an addition.

May be like Florida all new highways are toll roads.

Most of the states already charge an annual fee for electric cars to make up for the lack of gasoline tax revenue. I suspect the minority of the states that don't already charge this fee will add one in the future. Specific details can be found in the link below.

33 States Charge Electric Vehicle Drivers for Not Pumping Gas. Is Yours One of Them? - CNET

It’s at least equally difficult to impossible to get them to stop the spending addiction.

Never. Can’t be audited and no mechanism for immediate revenue collection

I'm sure they will set a minium mileage rate that is more than most of us will ever use...we never make out on these deals.

A minority, in the twenties, of the states charge more for EVs at registration. The median fee is 200.00. Source: priuschat.com

A small minority, less than ten, charge a surcharge to PHEVs - plug in hybrids.

A few, less than five, charge a fee for hybrids.

I don’t know for sure but it is coming! Remember EV’s do not pay any tax on fuel which is used to fund the roads. At some point they will be taxing you by the miles you drive. For commercial companies that cost will be passed on to the consumers (YOU). Can you see even higher inflation!

On a side note I was wondering why people purchase EV’s? What is their reason? Cost of fuel? Save the Planet? (That’s a joke in itself) What are your thoughts?

Lower cost of operation: fuel and maintenance

For some : better performance

To figure the mpg: the MPGe is how many miles per electric equivalent of a gallon of gas. A gallon equivalent is 33.7kwh or at SECO pricing $4.38 Using my MPGe of 121 my fuel cost is .036 per mile. Using the 2023 average MPG of 24.2 that is the equivalent of gasoline at .867.

Now would you like gas at 86 cents a gallon?

Cost: in my case I have a plug in hybrid which costs more. But the pay back is 63k e-miles. It is an easy decision to make. In the case of other models the payback can be even shorter.

TAX. First reality everyone wants, needs, services but want others to pay for them. That is true for ALL and has been true through history. Paying for roads and maintenance. Tolls have been and are still used. First of all they tie up traffic and people find ways to avoid them perhaps driving farther. Certainly increasing traffic through perhaps residential areas.

Far as EV autos it is not just fuel tax that they receive but also other subsidies.

When, I was WORKING, I burned far more fuel. Both my car and my golf cart run on gasoline. As I use so little. Price of gasoline doesn't matter very much.

We have choices. Wise is to choose the best choice for what you need..

A shocking reality for ALL. Life is NOT fair. There are NO PERFECT ANSWERS to anything.

There are choices for every issue. Fortunately we should investigate the current choices and then chose what to do. New items. EV autos are not at all new. They existed in the 1900's. Major advantage, no need to hand crank to start and not manual transmission. In those days a stick shift was not synchronized-far harder to shift. All is not what was. My car is OLD but garage kept. It is reliable, with low mileage. I have no need to change. My choice is made..

Already happening, they tax the crap out of diesel, that’s why it costs way more than gas despite the fact it requires less refining than gas.

In my opinion, the gas tax is one of the fairest taxes, much more fair than the income tax.

My guess is never. It would involve a whole new system and the government is notorious for being bad at developing new systems that work.

Most of the governments around the world aren't too stupid. They'll start taxing electric charging stations per kw-hour before too long. Of course here, the Federal and State governments will each want a piece of that pie.

ultimately they'll add congestion pricing with the municipality determining what time that will be

You can be sure of one thing, the bean counters have worked it out years ago. We are just the pawns.

Incentivizing and mandating EVs is one the stupidest and most diabolical government policies ever. The main reason isn't to save energy but to greatly expand the control over people. It also will eventually overwhelm our electrical grid and result a significant reduction in our standard of living.

If EV owners actually had to pay the true cost of manufacturing and disposal of electric batteries then the adoption of them would be far less.

The only people who should be charged with a mileage tax are the ones who don't pay for taxes at the fuel pump. EV owners should be obliged to report their mileage and pay the appropriate amount to a government agency since they don't pay the fuel taxes designated for road construction and repair.

I cannot see an electric car ever fitting my lifestyle nor an electric golf cart. Plus I don’t believe for a second that importing batteries from say China is really helping our world. It puts us more reliant on a communist country’s Slave labor and stuck during power grid shortages.

As cars switch to electric gasoline tax declines, and electricity tax increases. Taxes will always be paid.

Tax, tax, tax, it's off to work I go.

New tax will be in addition
 

They won't replace fuel tax. They'll just add an additional tax so we will pay double tax.

Agree, when I put my "tin foil hat" on I see a reason why bike paths are being put in as

We are taxed to earn $, taxed again to spend that $ and after we dieour $ is taxed as we will it off. Joe Black has it right, death and taxes, two sure things. There will be a day when we will pay taxes to ride a bike. Guess people just LOVE to pay taxes.

Excellent idea.

Don't forget that motor fuel taxes have two components...the federal tax (.18 per gallon), and the state tax (.35 per gallon in Florida). While the federal tax is uniform across the nation, the state taxes vary...from a high of .61 in Pennsylvania to .09 in Alaska. The average state tax on gasoline is .29.

When you take a trip in your car across different states, in effect, you are paying to use the roads in those states when you buy gas there. If fuel taxes were eliminated (never going to happen), individual states would immediately feel the bite. Most states get the bulk of their highway funds from fuel taxes. No one likes taxes, but fuel taxes are at least somewhat fair. When you drive more, you burn more fuel. You burn (buy) more fuel, you pay more tax. If you drive very little, you pay very little in tax.

Rest assured that the federal government, as well as individual states, will come up with a way to tax electric vehicles. Many states have already done so. If you are driving on the roadways, you are contributing to the wear and tear, and should expect to pay your share for the upkeep.

Trucking taxes
 

It’s been a fact of life, for the trucking companies, for many years. They pay state and federal taxes on miles driven and on fuel used. That is on each individual truck. The paperwork involved was a pain in the butt.

Taxes should be based on road usage (miles driven). Odometer (readings) record the data just have to collect at time of annual registration and/or resale. Perhaps require a mileage estimate for prepayment with a make-up payment at time of re-registration or sale of vehicle

Actually, the federal tax on diesel fuel is .24 per gallon, while the tax on gasoline is .18 per gallon. In Florida, the state tax on gasoline is .35, and the diesel tax is .20. So, at least in Florida, the tax on diesel fuel is 9 cents per gallon cheaper than gasoline. Hardly taxing the crap out of it.

Based on your comment, me explaining all this to you would be the equivalent of explaining physics to a third grader.....I'll pass. :mornincoffee:

Omg it’s too early in the morning for ….Math!

You will never justify an EV over the equivalent gas vehicle, short term or long term. The car costs an average of 20-50% more depending on model. I have a $50k new gas car and my buddy has a $108k Tesla s, both nice cars. I will never get my $50k back if I bought the Tesla in gas savings. Remember, electricity used for charging is not free. Maintenance costs are huge for EV’s, in 8-10 years, you will need a new battery at major expense and hazardous waste issue. If you drive all over the states for pleasure, you will never get back the time you have to sit and wait for a charger to free up and then the time it takes to actual charge your car. Also, owning an EV, you are always concerned about where the charging stations are located so you get to 1 when you need it.

Probably when the govt. goes totally All EV! In 2030.

Someone asked "why?" about EVs... Well, 5 years ago, I took delivery of a 2018 Tesla Model 3, Long Range, rear Wheel Drive (the Dual Motor AWDs weren't out yet and nobody knew if they'd be out in time to still get the tax credit).

There are a LOT of reasons. If you're "into" all the green reasons, that's fine. For me, they're really "icing on the cake". The "green reasons" got me looking. The practical reasons made it an easy decision.

1) Price. At the time, the net price wasn't much more than a new ICE (Internal Combustion Engine) car. I won't lie - it's the most expensive car I've ever bought (though one car I bought in 1990 was more expensive if I factor inflation into things).

2) Finding Fuel. I put a level 2 charger (specifically a Tesla High Power Wall Connector) in my garage. This means that finding charging is a non-issue for me. And on long trips, I have the Supercharger network which was adequate for my needs in 2018 and has only gotten better since then. I've taken the car from my home in NH to Canada, Indiana, New York, Philly, DC, and Florida (several of those multiple times) without any issues whatsoever.

3) Cost of Fuel. I retired my Camry with 330,000 miles on it. I was getting just under 30MPG with it (round up to 30 to make the following math easier). Gas was around $3/gal here in 2018 (now closer to $3.50) so, roughly speaking, fuel for my Camry was $0.10/mile. In 2018, my electric power cost me $0.17/kWh on a 'renewables plan'. That one kWh can take my Tesla over 4 miles (about 4.5, but we'll round down). So my Tesla was costing me about 4 cents per mile to run - less than half what my Camry cost.

4) Maintenance and Repairs. No oil changes. No radiator flushes. No transmission servicing. No replacing worn out spark plugs, plug wires, fuel filters, serpentine/timing belts. Regenerative braking in my Tesla means my brakes, after 90,000 miles, are like new so no brake repair/replacement costs. Other things I've had to replace in previous cars would include the head gasket, valves, water pump, fuel pump, distributor cap, radiator (and hoses) and more. There's a LOT of money to be saved in not having to repair parts that your car doesn't have to say nothing of the lack of hassle since you're not having to make those maintenance appointments.

Even my insurance, for some unfathomable reason, went down.

Today's Tesla costs less than when I bought mine. How many cars can you say that about after 5 years? You can now get a Tesla for less than a Camry and there are other EVs that you can get for under $30K (like the Chevy Bolt but that one wouldn't work well in my use case).

Now, on a more personal level, I've put up solar panels on my home because of the ridiculous hike in energy prices last year - finally made it a no-brainer - and now the cost of fueling my car for anything less than a multi-day trip depends on how I amortize the cost of the 34 panels I have up there now. But I'm literally driving on sunshine now.

Every day I wake up to a "full tank of electrons". I've never been late for work and been forced to be even later because I forgot to get gas on the way home the previous night. The convenience is hard to quantify.

Then there's the car itself. It is the fastest, most powerful, most maneuverable, nimblest car I've ever had in my life (and I've had some turbocharged sports cars in my youth). Having the battery pack like a "skateboard" in the bottom puts all the weight down there and give you a very low center of gravity - making it far less likely to roll over. Tesla's safety ratings are the envy of the industry. One of their cars actually BROKE the machine trying to crush it (simulating a roll over accident).

The damn car updates itself. I've had all sorts of new features show up in the car after over-the-air updates. When I bought the car, I didn't have dash cam software, automatic windshield wipers, "Sentry mode" (where incidents around your car are recorded to a local hard drive), Dog Mode, Joe Mode, Netflix, Disney, YouTube (those last three are only available when parked) and so much more.

And this is all before we get to the Autopilot/Full Self Drive topic which can be the source of a lot of controversy, FUD (Fear, Uncertainty, Disinformation) and misunderstanding.

So you don't have to get political to find reasons to be on the EV bandwagon. But, if I may be permitted a LITTLE bit of opinion... Even before I put the panels on my roof, I was much happier to give money to a local utility than paying an oil conglomerate to pollute the planet (I'm old enough to remember a LOT of smog in my youth). Even so, that wasn't the first reason I bought the car - you can see all the others above.

OP, to answer your questions: your proposal won’t happen during our lifetime so “no issue” for us. For starters, I suggest all interstate highways be turned into toll roads so those that use them pay for their maintenance. The legislation must be clear that the dollars collected can only be used for highway projects.

I bought a Tesla about 3 1/2 years ago. I had a couple of reasons:
1) I wanted to buy it while I was still working and could afford it.
2) I like technology and wanted it because of that.

I now have a 3rd reason. As a woman, I don't want to break down on the side of the road. With a gas car that can happen unexpectedly at any time. But with a Tesla, if there is something wrong with the car, it will tell you. I just feel safer!

It would be a pretty boring program if they DID have "license, registration, and insurance".