Golf course jobs
 

1000 GOLF COURSE JOBS to be taken over by DISTRICT RESIDENTS good or bad ? :22yikes:
https://www.**************.com/2023/...-golf-courses/he
Developer wants to shed the responsibility for the 1,000 employees at golf courses in The Villages.

Members of the Amenity Authority Committee, with some suspicion, wrestled on Wednesday with the notice from the Developer that he would like to cease providing staffing for executive and championship golf courses.

“It’s the natural progression and how we do things in The Villages,” said Deputy District Manager Carrie Duckett.

The 1,000 ambassadors, starter shack employees and Golf Operations Administrator David Williams would all begin receiving their paychecks from The Villages District government, rather than the Developer.
“It’s going to be the same starters and people. But rather than working for the Developer, they will be paid by the District. Residents won’t see a change,” Duckett said.

At least in the beginning, the AAC would not be paying more for the staffing of the executive golf courses. The AAC already pays a service fee to the Developer who is currently providing the executive golf course staff.

The AAC already has budgeted $1.7 million to pay the Developer for staffing executive golf courses north of County Road 466. The amount includes a 5 percent surcharge paid to the Developer, amounting to about $90,000. The AAC would be saving the $90,000 surcharge.

The Developer will pay the District for providing staff at championship courses, just as the Developer pays for Recreation Department staffers to work at recreation centers still owned by the Developer.

AAC member Don Deakin wondered whether golf course workers would still receive the discount they currently receive when playing at championship courses.

“Many of them have told me that they aren’t working for minimum wage, they are working so they get that discount,” Deakin said. “Would we lose 1,000 employees if the Developer suddenly wasn’t offering that discount?”

He also said that too many times the AAC has been rushed to make a decision on an important issue and later came to regret the decision. He pointed specifically to the push by the Developer in 2019 for the AAC to purchase the Hacienda Country Club. In the end, the Developer demolished the country club, which upset many residents.

“I am not in favor of rushing through deals like this,” Deakin said.

He said he wanted more information and time to evaluate the contract to terminate the existing agreement.

Community Development District 4 Chairman Cliff Wiener, who also heads the Property Owners Association, said there is likely more to the story about the motives of the Developer.

“If the Developer was making a profit, he wouldn’t want to get out of it,” Wiener said.

AAC member James Vaccaro questioned picking up the tab for a potentially hefty salary for the golf operations administrator.

“Don’t we already have enough managers?” he asked.

It was also indicated that the starters and ambassadors would likely be offered dental and vision benefits when they become District employees. Residents pointed out there would be a cost associated with the benefits.

In the end, the AAC voted 4-1 in favor of the Developer’s request to terminate the existing agreement and move forward with a new agreement.

The change will take place Oct. 1.

The Project Wide Advisory Committee, which oversees amenities south of County Road 466, will discuss this same issue when its members meet at 8:30 a.m. Monday, Aug. 14 at SeaBreeze Recreation Center.

Hmmmm.

The link doesn't seem to be working.

Thanks for reproducing the story, but what is your point?

A disaster in the making.

Interesting quote, why do you say "A disaster in the making."

Never let the inmates run the institution:22yikes:

__________________________________________________ _______

:censored:

It will be a complicated and confusing process. Employees of VCCD are government employees. Benefits will change. For instance, employees will not pay SS, but will be able to put money into a tax deferred 401. The VCCD does not match employee contributions to the 401. It is not obvious how a government employee can legally service a private enterprise such as the championship golf courses. It is one thing for a government to contract out work to private companies, but something entirely different for a private company to hire government employees. It is also not obvious how a government employee can legally accept preferential discounts at the country club. I am sure the developer has thought through the process, but I hope the ACC is looking at it with eyes wide open.

“It’s the natural progression and how we do things in The Villages,” said Deputy District Manager Carrie Duckett.
Does that mean, " We unload anything not making us a profit, and is a chain round our neck"




"Beware of Greeks bearing gifts!"

Interesting how residents jump to their own conclusions. The Villages will still own the courses, AND will STILL make the profit. They are just turning over the staffing duties to the Districts.

Fees
 

The Developer will own the championship courses, the District will handle the operations, so who will set the green fees and enhancements rates? Who does that now?

I talked recently with a friend who is employed on a golf course. The employees have known about this for a while, have had to fill out paperwork, and been told the change is as of Oct 1.

Interesting that the AAC and Projectwide committees are just now being asked to sign off on this. Almost like the Developer sets the agenda and the AAC and Projectwide are expected to rubberstamp whatever he wants.

Will the golf employees have to be offered the same benefits package as other employees, or can they be a separate class? Will their championship discount continue? What is the effect of Florida's new minimum wage law, stepping up to $15/hour in annual steps? (Which also increases the FICA tax due.) Will we be paid a fee for managing the staffing at the championship courses? How much? Percentage or flat dollar rate?

That's just off the top of my head. There must be a lot of questions to address before committing to a big change like this. The decision should not be hurried.

If I were the suspicious type, I would think the developer is dumping a cost burden caused by the increasing minimum wage. He already cut back staffing to offset the increases so far. Perhaps there are no more cuts to be made and now the costs will rise quickly.

Not for me either

Exactly!

This doesn’t pass the sniff test. There is a history of residents getting the short end of the straw. Examples include the sale of utilities at inflated asset values hurting ratepayers, the infamous windmill and water tower in Brownwood, or the sale of the El Santiago Recreation Center. And when the other party says no to a seemingly forced transaction, the response is to tear everything down like at Hacienda Hills. I sincerely hope I’m wrong on this, but I don’t think it will turn out favorably for the residents? Stay tuned.

Noone (or more exactly-none of us-to the best of my knowledge) working for the Championship courses knew about this prior to 2 days before it was published in the paper, including most or all of the Golf Pro's who manage the courses. 'Paperwork' will begin to be filled out at VCCD held orientations beginning next week. I don't believe the change is up for discussion, as it's already a done deal. As the article stated the AAC already gave it a 4-1 yes vote ,which I believe would have been the last hurdle, or one of the last anyhow. The minimum wage increase will continue to happen every September, and parity between what recreation facility workers, already employed by the VCCD make and the golf course staff will happen when the change becomes official on October 1. It's been explained (to us) and it feels like that this is just a matter of putting the administration of human resources where it can be done more easily and more successfully. The developer will be more successful when they focus on developing, rather than operating, and the VCCD already has an infrastructure in place to do it better and more efficiently. IMHO-if the change mandates that the 'Championship Golf Discount' goes away for current employees, it's likely that violence on the first tee will become commonplace, as there will be no golf employees left!

So is this move similar to the permanant closing of the Brownwood theater? Developer just says to heck with what the homeowners were sold or want?

Erroll Estates in Apopka, FL was a beautiful golf course community that was shut down and left to become a forest of tall weeds. Homeowners sold on golf course living were sol. Like it or leave it.

T V Developer has free range to do as he pleases and T V fails to represent. Before moving here I wondered if T V courses would ever have the same failed ghost town effect at the expense of the homeowners, forsed to pay up or live in a weed jungle.

Based on the Brownwood theater and T V complacency, I would say the ship has sailed. The 1000 employees will just adapt and residents will just suck it up butter-cup on any cons to the Developer bailing.

Many golf course workers do this for the half off golf benefit. If they don’t keep this benefit there will be lots of job openings in starters, ambassadors and inside workers at country clubs. There are more questions than answers as to the expenses involved.

Who will then be responsible for the cost of those employees. So where does the money come from to pay that cost, if The Villages aka developer still owns the courses?

"The Sky is Falling", "The Sky is Falling!"

So many opinions stated here without the facts:
Fact: The Villages will STILL own the courses.
Fact: The employees will still receive golf benefits, i.e. 1/2 price golf
Fact: The Villages will determine the fee for golf, and enhancements (priority)
Fact: The Villages will cover the salaries of the employees
Fact: The Villages is staying in the business of golf, in FACT major expansion of golf
Fact: Golf is GROWING in the Villages, unlike the film business, i.e. The Brownwood Movie Theater
Fact: The "Developer bailing" is NOT true!!
Fact: The employees are getting offered more benefits, and a bigger pay check, per hour increase!

There will be a long list of Villages haters who will state opinions, without the FACTS

Well said. You need to add "Fact:" in front of your last sentence.

There is obviously a contract that determines exactly how all this will happen. Can someone point out the part of the contract that they find objectionable, please. I would like to understand the problem.

Golf ambassadors and gate watchers. Two jobs, if eliminated, would hardly be noticed. Spend the money to improve course conditions or plant more flowers.

I am still confused.

Who owns the executive courses?

Who pays the employees?

Who owns the championship courses?

Who pays the employees?

I found this online.

While the Country Clubs are owned and operated by the developer of The Villages, the Executive Golf Trail courses are owned and operated by the Village Center Community Development District and the Sumter Landing Community Development District.

Who controls the Village Center Community Development District and the Sumter Landing Community Development District?

Oh, c'mon. How many times do I have to remind people? DO NOT CONFUSE THE HATERS WITH THE FACTS!

Marathon Man has personally guaranteed that all golf course employees will continue to receive the same discounts on golfing. Good to know that the employees can count on that under their new employer.

read post #21

As ALWAYS well said!!

Based on what?

I think both the Gate Keepers and the Ambassadors would notice. BTW both provide a service that is needed! Until someone walks in the shoes of an employee that does the job.....

Two part answer.
 

The VCCD and SLCCD are run by Developer-appointed cronies who vote on spending Villager's money.

Exactly! To use an extreme example, imagine the gate at 466 and Morse headed northbound without a gate attendant.
And for the 30% of golfers that actually use their sand bottle and don't think it's a urinal, it's nice to have a refill. :1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl: I just wish they went back to carrying water----it was much better than the water stations, and really helpful especially in the summer.

could be economics. . .
could be behavior bias. .
could be perception. . .
could be really, really good intuition from experiences

high probability of any of the above

Who would rake the traps and fill the divots on the tee boxes if not the Ambassadors?

Would the employees still get the half price golf?

Yes, also see post #21

According to the District Annual Report, the 5 member Board of Supervisors of the VCDD are elected by the landowners of the property within the district. However, there are no residential properties within the boundaries of the District (I think the district is the Spanish Springs commercial area) so it would appear that they are elected by the developer.

It looks like the amenity authority committee is a committee of the VCDD.

https://www.districtgov.org/PdfUploa...ort%202022.pdf

It is the same for the SLCDD (Sumter Landing Community Development District).

The PWAC is a committee of the SLCDD.

Then we might need a Port-a- Potty on each tee too. :jester:

What would I then do on Monday's? You're right though-Probably not noticed until something goes wrong-someone gets hurt at a gate, or everyone starts CCW'ing in their golf car(t)s in case the group in front of them is playing slow.
(someone will reply with one word- 'starts?')

Originally Posted by Arlington2 View Post
It will be a complicated and confusing process. Employees of VCCD are government employees. Benefits will change. For instance, employees will not pay SS, but will be able to put money into a tax deferred 401. The VCCD does not match employee contributions to the 401. It is not obvious how a government employee can legally service a private enterprise such as the championship golf courses. It is one thing for a government to contract out work to private companies, but something entirely different for a private company to hire government employees. It is also not obvious how a government employee can legally accept preferential discounts at the country club. I am sure the developer has thought through the process, but I hope the ACC is looking at it with eyes wide open.

Ah, this is the “interesting” part indeed. :agree:

I can see the writing on the wall that the executive trail fee will go up to pay for this especially with minimum wage going up to $15.