Oh my goodness, Electric cart owners must read
 

Oh my, Jacksonville fire dept issues warnings June 2023

Lithium batteries in golf cart spark fire that destroys E-Town home, firefighters say

Thank you for posting this. It is a great reminder to all of us to be careful with lithium batteries. Call 911 if you see smoke or flames. Do not attempt to douse the fire yourself.

Not only religated to golf cars but the high intensity fires from lithium

JFRD warning about lithium batteries

Need more details. Make, model, aftermarket add-on? Overcharging? Not worried about my EZ-Go Elite.

Gas carts catch fire too.

Exactly ! While this post will never convince "electric cart devotees" or "gas cart diehards" to abandon their choices (and probably was not meant to influence decisions !), but to call attention to the need to be AWARE that batteries are not THE perfect solution to everything... the "vape" craze found batteries exploding and causing serious injury, ditto battery powered "skate boards", so autos and golf carts and lawn mowers are no different. The post is just a great reminder, even if it only reaches a few people.

And watch this report JFRD warning about lithium batteries

Another "Nervous Nellie". I have 4 e-bikes with Lithium Ion batteries, an electric golf cart with Lithium Ion and a bunch of power tools that run on the same. My next car will run on Lithium Ion batteries. There are better things to worry about for those of you who seem to love to worry. Don't forget to look up every once in a while, I heard the sky is falling. Oh my!

No one on this post bashed your choice for buying electric. This post was a warning that if you do have lithium-powered items in your home, be careful! Chemicals you cannot see or smell will ignite and your entire home will burn down because chemical fires are extremely difficult to extinguish. (even by highly trained firemen) Make certain your batteries have no leaks or damage and purchase the brand of battery the manufacturer suggests. I would also add, make certain your charger does not have a faulty wiring system.

EV technology isn’t ready yet to be widely used, or to be a replacement for combustion engines.
You know producing lithium batteries and especially discarding lithium batteries is very bad for the environment (hazardous waste items)? Check this out:

Carbon Footprint of Lithium-Ion Battery Production (vs Gasoline, Lead-Acid)

I’ll take a normal combustion engine car over an EV now (which I just did) and imo it might take EVs a few more decades to perfect the technology.

It would seem that EV technology is being widely used as a replacement for combustion engines today. "I wouldn't buy one of those!" Fine, but your neighbor and his buddy already did. Cars, golf carts, and residential-grade lawn maintenance equipment powered by batteries are being widely purchased today.

I was surprised to find the article was not anti-battery.

Lithium batteries
 

Everybody freaks out over a lithium battery issue, while gasoline vehicles burn every day. We have lithium batteries in cell phones, iPads, laptops, hybrid vehicles, electric vehicles, and all of our cordless tools. Lithium is a way of life today

The Government WILL NOT ALLOW lithium batteries in the cargo hold of airplanes, but the Government WANTS you to have lithium batteries in your EV in your garage where you and your family live!!!!!!!!!

Yup just more toxic expensive waste for our dumps someday...

And why is that?

Is it because lithium batteries are exploding left and right leaving destruction in their wake and keeping the insurance companies and home builders in business?

Or, is it because there is a risk with lithium batteries, just as there is a risk with gasoline or compressed gases, and the Govt is not ready to accept that risk with 100+ lives.

BMW of Wesley Chapel recently had large fire destroying 10 new cars. They have large lithium batteries.

What has large lithium batteries? All BMWs? The 10 new BMWs that were destroyed? The information I could find did not give a cause of the fire.

Ohiobuckeye
 

There was one in Harbour Hills 2 or 3 yrs. ago that destroyed their home!

I read a few articles regarding this. Check out the article in which a BMW caught fire in the garage of a homeowner in Wesley Chapel. Even though the cause of that fire is still under investigation, It will provide you with some insight.

As in life, everything works like historical precedence, until it doesn't. .

human recency bias at work, because the human brain has a very hard time deciphering small probabilities. .

the future is always uncertain, sometimes more uncertain than at other times.

although true in the simpliest of comparisons, the actual differences between gas and chemical fires are miles apart in intensity and extinguishment execution, and lithium files probably follow a non linear exponential intensity path with battery size, which of course the cultists want to ignore. .

Lithium batteries
 

Coming from an administration that wants all government vehicles to be electric by 2035? I think listening to the government is always a mistake. They do not even listen to themselves! I have had an electric cart for over 8 years and have owned a tesla, I would not worry too much and you can stick to the nonflammable gas you use if I were you, you know, the one you use in your combustible engine.

Yep, saw that one. Seems BMW has a problem with cars catching fire, but long before they were electric.

• - The article was from 2018 when I suspect there were not too many (any?) BMW EVs
• - The article mentions the vehicle's engine, not battery or motor
• - The article talks about 40 cars catching fire in the last five years which would go back to 2013 when I'm sure there were not a lot of BMW EVs
• - The article mentions a 2017 recall of about one million vehicles for fire-related issues - there is no way BMW has 1 million EVs on the road in 2017

Post #15 seems to want to imply that the recent Wesley Chapel fire was caused by lithium batteries. Nothing in the available reporting on that fire gives any evidence of that. Previous reporting on BMW fires indicates that BMW has had an issue since well before they were using lithium batteries.

The recent fire *might* have been caused by the batteries but we don't know that yet.

That is how I see it. Lithium batteries were most likely not the cause of the BMW fires. Have to wait for the investigation though.

Lithium fires are more dangerous than gas fires and more difficult to put out. First Due: Operational Considerations for Fires that Involve Lithium-ion Batteries | Firehouse

A gasoline fire *IS* a chemical fire.

A lithium battery fire would be a flammable metals fire.

It would be interesting to see statistics showing the frequency of fires for gas and electric vehicles: how many engine fires for every 100,000 gasoline engines and how many battery fires for every 100,000 EVs? Does something like that exist?

It would also be interesting to see how that number changes over time. Gasoline engines became safer over time and EVs are relatively new. Are they dangerous now but not as dangerous as three years ago or are they generally safe now and getting safer every year?

Reminder to gasoline powered carts. Gasoline can burn.
https://www.**************.com/2020/...-the-villages/

True, and gasoline fires are more dangerous than wood fires. As our technology evolves, we learn to respond in how we handle the emergencies coming out of that technology. In the near future, fire departments will have the extinguishers for lithium battery fires. Perhaps a powder of salt sprayed over the fire (no water, of course) which will prevent oxygen from reaching lithium. That is a bit simplistic but you get the idea.

Errr...did you read the article attached to the OP? Lithium fires are difficult to extinguish even by trained fireman. Because of this, those fires cause extreme damage. Gas fires can be extinguished quickly.

Which is why I prefer regular batteries.

Huh???

regular = lead acid batteries. .

So Coach.....if that is "regular" then what is a "LARGE"?

Q&A: Fire on board the Fremantle Highway ship – DW – 07/30/2023

not the first car carrying ship to burn down by lithium ion batteries. .

one other on sunk in the atlantic. .

another one has a time lapse video of the cars on deck going from all okay to all burned overnight. . I can't find it at the moment. .

That would be a "Venti" battery...

(With a nod to Paul Rudd... https://youtu.be/Tbb7a404i78?si=RFggLnxHcn5U8Tug)

Ah...thanks for the clarification...so a Venti battery is 20oz battery..which is different than a 6v golf cart battery (approx. 60-70lbs)..must me more like a 9v battery... I am glad that is cleared up

The ship that burned was carrying EVs. That does not mean that lithium ion batteries burned the ship down. It *could* be the case that the batteries started the fire and it *could* be the case that the batteries made the fire worse. It also could be the case that the other 3300 vehicles had something to do with it.

The Allianz insurance company records that 209 ship fires were reported last year. That is the highest number in a decade, up 17% on 2021. Thirteen of those fires occurred on car carriers — but it is not clear how many of them involved electric vehicles.

large is relative sizes of same types of batteries

D Cell versus Marine Deep Cycle cart battery is small versus large

Ryobi lithium tool battery versus golf cart battery is small versus large

DBD

hmmm, circumstantial evidence, yes, and in public trial here in the villages . .

I saw two videos of electric cards on deck on a very small cargo ship, the first video was of waves coming over the deck and the cars starting on fire, and the last video was of all the cars burned on the deck. . .

now that was not circumstantial, but a very specific example of why transportation departments want to ban electric vehicles from under deck, but the above deck is more hazardous with contact with sea water.

So the world is getting into a circular argument of agreeing that lithium ion batteries are a higher risk, that the world of green believes that this is the future so we can't stop, and that the safety protocols and systems are lagging and need updating to something yet to be determined as safe as gas powered vehicles . . .

however, if all you are fighting is circumstantial versus factual evidence, that doesn't change the increased risk with lithium ion versus lead acid batteries, and the type of fire and extinguishment is hotter and harder, which is factual. .

There is certainly an increased risk with lithium vs lead batteries but is there an increased risk with batteries in EVs vs gasoline in cars? The statistics in the article show that fires happen, even on ships not carrying cars. Fires do happen on car carriers, though this article that seems to be implying that lithium batteries are dangerous doesn't provide statistics to show that lithium batteries were involved.

While correlation does not prove causation, the information in the article does not even show correlation.

I am not ready to give up my electric cart or my electric hedge trimmer or my e-bike (if I owned one) because one of 13 car carriers that burned had an EV onboard (500 out of 3800) or because there was a fire on at a BMW dealership and some BMWs are EVs (did they even have vehicles on the 3rd floor?).

Be aware? Yes. Be concerned? Maybe. Avoid EVs and other e-stuff because of batteries? Not at this point.

Yes gas vehicles catch fire also but lithium fires burn hotter, explode more readily and release toxic gasses. They are exponentially more difficult to put out and can reignite as long as 24 hours later. Gas vehicles do not easily explode and are much easier to put out. The explosion that you hear from a gas vehicle fire is more likely the tires than the gas tank. Ask any firefighter.