Originally Posted by dewilson58 (Post 2269065)

Not sure if public funds should be spent on a monument or not.........sounds like $6mil went to One Pulse Foundation (OPF) & $2mil to purchase the Pulse site.

What I find interesting is the millions of dollars of compensation went to OPF officers over the years and now OPF decided not the build a monument.

& no one is screaming.

Their Form 990 is public information disclosing the compensation.

:22yikes::22yikes:

Originally Posted by Taltarzac725 (Post 2269074)

It is funds probably from Orlando area taxpayers.

Originally Posted by dewilson58 (Post 2269065)

Not sure if public funds should be spent on a monument or not.........sounds like $6mil went to One Pulse Foundation (OPF) & $2mil to purchase the Pulse site.

What I find interesting is the millions of dollars of compensation went to OPF officers over the years and now OPF decided not the build a monument.

& no one is screaming.

Their Form 990 is public information disclosing the compensation.

:22yikes::22yikes:

Originally Posted by blueash (Post 2269157)

I am not amazed that people attack something being done when the victims were not just like you. Any problem with public dollars spent at the World Trade Center honoring the victims who just happened to be at the wrong place of work that morning?



How about the Memorial at the Oklahoma City site where a domestic terrorist hoping to inspire the overthrow of the government killed people who just were in the wrong place.

Lots of Federal, State and Local dollars spent at those sites, and so many more. No complaints from you about that? Oh, most of those victims weren't gay.

Originally Posted by golfing eagles (Post 2269160)

I'd say the same thing about all those tragedies. Remember the victims. Memorialize them. But the term "honor" should be reserved for those that did something proactive to help. Honor the firefighters that laid down their lives that day to help others and remember those that simply showed up for work that day. I realize it is a semantic difference, but also an important one. And I say this having lost 2 high school classmates that day, as well as having had my son in the air when all flights were grounded.

As far as public funds go, I stated I'm undecided. Either way I don't think it's a big issue. As far as Pulse goes, I didn't see anyone post that the clientele was gay, maybe I missed that, or maybe somebody jumps to conclusions.

Originally Posted by blueash (Post 2269157)

I am not amazed that people attack something being done when the victims were not just like you. Any problem with public dollars spent at the World Trade Center honoring the victims who just happened to be at the wrong place of work that morning?



How about the Memorial at the Oklahoma City site where a domestic terrorist hoping to inspire the overthrow of the government killed people who just were in the wrong place.

Lots of Federal, State and Local dollars spent at those sites, and so many more. No complaints from you about that? Oh, most of those victims weren't gay.

Originally Posted by Bill14564 (Post 2269167)

Way off base with this comment. The problem that was pointed out was that a lot of money was collected and a lot of money was spent but there is no monument or museum to show for it.

The city will own two pieces of property: the land where the museum was to be built and the building where the shooting occurred.

The owner of the nightclub will have $2M if she sells the property plus over half a million in salary from her time with the OPF.

The families of the victims have plans and promises but no memorial.

Originally Posted by Dusty_Star (Post 2269179)

Looks to me as if the owners got their 2 million, it closed yesterday.

Originally Posted by Bill14564 (Post 2269181)

Probably right. I couldn't figure out if the sale had actually closed yesterday or if the city had approved the $2M yesterday.

Originally Posted by blueash (Post 2269205)

Big time bull being shoveled here. The complaint in the OP is very clear. Read it, the first sentence



and reply



then




then I point out nobody here complained about public funding of other memorials, you have the audacity to object. The OP and others mentioned an issue with whether it has or has not been built, but his observation very clearly is that public funding was provided.

The larger project has for now failed as the land owner did not sell the property to the city and instead wanted to go forward with their own plans but ultimately were unable to raise enough private funding to build the hoped for museum. It is complicated.

What is not complicated is that public funding was provided as seed money for the project the completion of which required much larger infusion of private money. That didn't happen.

As for honor vs memorialize. Point made that memorialize is more specific, but use of the word honor is entirely appropriate

Originally Posted by golfing eagles (Post 2269160)

I'd say the same thing about all those tragedies. Remember the victims. Memorialize them. But the term "honor" should be reserved for those that did something proactive to help. Honor the firefighters that laid down their lives that day to help others and remember those that simply showed up for work that day. I realize it is a semantic difference, but also an important one. And I say this having lost 2 high school classmates that day, as well as having had my son in the air when all flights were grounded.

Originally Posted by blueash (Post 2269205)

Big time bull being shoveled here. The complaint in the OP is very clear. Read it, the first sentence



and reply



then




then I point out nobody here complained about public funding of other memorials, you have the audacity to object. The OP and others mentioned an issue with whether it has or has not been built, but his observation very clearly is that public funding was provided.

The larger project has for now failed as the land owner did not sell the property to the city and instead wanted to go forward with their own plans but ultimately were unable to raise enough private funding to build the hoped for museum. It is complicated.

What is not complicated is that public funding was provided as seed money for the project the completion of which required much larger infusion of private money. That didn't happen.

As for honor vs memorialize. Point made that memorialize is more specific, but use of the word honor is entirely appropriate

Originally Posted by dewilson58 (Post 2269065)

Not sure if public funds should be spent on a monument or not.........sounds like $6mil went to One Pulse Foundation (OPF) & $2mil to purchase the Pulse site.

What I find interesting is the millions of dollars of compensation went to OPF officers over the years and now OPF decided not the build a monument.

& no one is screaming.

Their Form 990 is public information disclosing the compensation.

:22yikes::22yikes:

Originally Posted by Stu from NYC (Post 2269161)

Agreed

Originally Posted by golfing eagles (Post 2269160)

I'd say the same thing about all those tragedies. Remember the victims. Memorialize them. But the term "honor" should be reserved for those that did something proactive to help. Honor the firefighters that laid down their lives that day to help others and remember those that simply showed up for work that day. I realize it is a semantic difference, but also an important one. And I say this having lost 2 high school classmates that day, as well as having had my son in the air when all flights were grounded.

As far as public funds go, I stated I'm undecided. Either way I don't think it's a big issue. As far as Pulse goes, I didn't see anyone post that the clientele was gay, maybe I missed that, or maybe somebody jumps to conclusions.

Originally Posted by blueash (Post 2269205)

Big time bull being shoveled here. The complaint in the OP is very clear. Read it, the first sentence

and reply

then

then I point out nobody here complained about public funding of other memorials, you have the audacity to object. The OP and others mentioned an issue with whether it has or has not been built, but his observation very clearly is that public funding was provided.

Originally Posted by golfing eagles (Post 2269070)

I'm not sure public funds should be used either. But I have another pet peeve about how this monument is being described. While this mass shooting was a tragedy, I'm not sure that a monument should be erected to "honor" the victims. Honor the firefighters who rushed into the WTC on 9/11 and died. Honor the thousands that died on the beaches of Normandy defending our country. But "honor" people who happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time? What "honorable" thing did they do? I think "remember" or "memorialize" are much better terms for these victims.

Originally Posted by GATORBILL66 (Post 2269352)

I am glad I moved out of Orlando as I would not my money going to something like that.

Originally Posted by golfing eagles (Post 2269070)

I'm not sure public funds should be used either. But I have another pet peeve about how this monument is being described. While this mass shooting was a tragedy, I'm not sure that a monument should be erected to "honor" the victims. Honor the firefighters who rushed into the WTC on 9/11 and died. Honor the thousands that died on the beaches of Normandy defending our country. But "honor" people who happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time? What "honorable" thing did they do? I think "remember" or "memorialize" are much better terms for these victims.

Originally Posted by Sabella (Post 2269283)

Let’s not forget the extremely large amount of money that went to the victims families. A lot of the victims and their families that received money were in this country illegally? Remember, when a tragedy would happen -the whole nation had sympathy for the victims and their family, and we took a proper amount of time, and we prayed, and we mourned , and then we moved on seems like when we have a major tragedy these days we have to relive it forever.

Originally Posted by Blueblaze (Post 2269343)

Personally, I find all the groveling and whining disgusting. Every time I pick up the mail, the flag at the post office seems continuously at half-mast. Why has my country become such a nation sissies and whiners? Instead of creating monuments of teddy bears for the enjoyment of the lunatic killers -- monuments that nobody visits but everyone is forced to pay for -- I have a better idea.

Just once, I'd like to see my nation man-up and do something about all the lunatic killers we allow to run loose, beyond blaming every law abiding American who owns a gun safe.

We didn't seem to have this problem when I was a kid and we kept the lunatics in asylums and the killers in jail. How about we try that again?

Originally Posted by OrangeBlossomBaby (Post 2269367)

I don't know about the rest of the country but -this- state, Florida, appears to have low standards regarding bail. Aggravated assault? $500 bond and you're out free to terrorize your wife again. Grand theft? Just have your bail bondsman put up $100 of the $1000 bond and you can scope out the new golf cart at Nancy's house with the key in the ignition because she's forgetful. Robbed a gas station? Cool. Don't forget to put gas in the car there after you pay your $250 to get released from lockup.

The criminals around here tend to be repeat offenders. And our system continues to let them roam free, to add more crimes to their long list.

Originally Posted by blueash (Post 2269157)

I am not amazed that people attack something being done when the victims were not just like you. Any problem with public dollars spent at the World Trade Center honoring the victims who just happened to be at the wrong place of work that morning?




How about the Memorial at the Oklahoma City site where a domestic terrorist hoping to inspire the overthrow of the government killed people who just were in the wrong place.

Lots of Federal, State and Local dollars spent at those sites, and so many more. No complaints from you about that? Oh, most of those victims weren't gay.

Originally Posted by Bill14564 (Post 2269357)

Interesting. Since the public money that went to something like that came from the tourism dollars collected from hotels, BECAUSE you moved out of Orlando you are more likely to have contributed to it.

Originally Posted by OrangeBlossomBaby (Post 2269363)

Well gee, if these "tragedies" didn't keep happening over and over again, maybe we wouldn't have to keep reliving them.

They're not tragedies. It wasn't an unfortunate accident. It was an atrocious, hideous, hateful, intentional act of violence. And it keeps happening. Everyone who was affected directly by one of these incidents, lives with the risk of a new incident triggering the emotional turmoil they experienced the first time around.

So maybe if we could come up with solutions for a) stopping these incidents OR b) reducing the risk of them happening, then maybe there'd be fewer of them, and no one would have to relive anything at all.

We'll keep bringing it up, until we stop it from happening again.

Originally Posted by Topspinmo (Post 2269422)

Not unless he stayed in hotels.

Originally Posted by Bill14564 (Post 2269431)

And he is more likely to have stayed in a hotel now that he doesn't live there.

Originally Posted by Topspinmo (Post 2269424)

Throughout history it happened, even with Cain and Able. It’s’ NEVER going to stop but hopefully can be controlled?

Originally Posted by Bill14564 (Post 2269357)

Interesting. Since the public money that went to something like that came from the tourism dollars collected from hotels, BECAUSE you moved out of Orlando you are more likely to have contributed to it.

Originally Posted by Topspinmo (Post 2269422)

Not unless he stayed in hotels.

Originally Posted by Bill14564 (Post 2269431)

And he is more likely to have stayed in a hotel now that he doesn't live there.

Originally Posted by Topspinmo (Post 2269434)

Not if he don’t stay overnight. I’ve been here 9 years and have yet stayed in hotel in Orlando.

Originally Posted by Bill14564 (Post 2269372)

Bail is not meant to keep an accused individual in jail and in fact, that is prohibited by the eighth amendment.

If there is an amount of cash that will ensure the accused comes back to his trial, set that amount as bail.

If there are conditions that will ensure the accused does not commit more crimes while awaiting trial, set those conditions as bail.

If there is good reason to believe the accused will flee or will commit more crimes then deny bail and keep him in jail.

The concept of bail should be used as intended, not as a shortcut to keeping the accused in jail.

Originally Posted by oldtimes (Post 2269207)

It happens all too often. 18 people just got shot in Maine. Should we build a museum there too? Where is the cutoff? The World Trade Center were First Responders who went into that building with a good idea they were going to die.

Originally Posted by golfing eagles (Post 2269070)

I'm not sure public funds should be used either. But I have another pet peeve about how this monument is being described. While this mass shooting was a tragedy, I'm not sure that a monument should be erected to "honor" the victims. Honor the firefighters who rushed into the WTC on 9/11 and died. Honor the thousands that died on the beaches of Normandy defending our country. But "honor" people who happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time? What "honorable" thing did they do? I think "remember" or "memorialize" are much better terms for these victims.