When will they learn.....
 

Played Palmer Cherry to Laurel yesterday, the first day LV was open after months of renovation. Conditions were great, fairways had decent grass, greens were running about 10-10 1/2, bunkers were great. However, turned to LV at 11:20 and noticed the following:

15+ unrepaired ball marks on each green
Dozens of divots not filled in
Half the bunkers with unraked footprints
The edges of the cups were raggedy.

At most 22 foursomes came before us

So, unfortunately, I'll give it 3 weeks, maybe less, before the conditions deteriorate to the level of the rest of our courses.

So the question is: When will our golfers learn that taking care of the course is everyone's responsibility, that there is no "entitled" superclass that need not rake, fill or repair. And stop sticking your putter in the hole to retrieve the ball or yanking the flagstick out with the ball in the cup. I wish we had cameras on every hole and institute a system of fines or revocation of golfing privileges for the offenders.

A real country club membership costs mega dollars per year. Live life like a millionaire on a retirement budget. What class of golfer did you expect to be playing here ?

That's a non-sequitur.

You don't have to be a touring pro to rake a bunker, fill a divot or repair a ball mark.

Au contraire. It is pertinet facta.

Agree, I have always respected the courses I played on & so did the other golfers I played with & we were certainly not highly skilled. Do you think using the putter to retrieve the ball or trying to pop it out with the flag are due to arthritic knees? It is not something I had seen before. As to not raking a trap & so on, is that laziness? Ignorance? Entitlement seems a stretch, but maybe it is one of those three, depending on the golfer.

Maybe they were playing "hurry up" golf and couldn't take the time to rake or fill. Gotta get out of the way of the next high-speed golfers in a hurry to get to the 19th hole.

Seriously though, I agree with you. Golfers are as responsible for the condition of the courses as the maintenance crews.

Please explain: How so?

You can get a suction cup or "basket" that goes on the end of your putter, gently remove the flagstick and then carefully retrieve you balls if you are so "arthritic" that you can bend down to put a ball on a tee but not to get your ball out of the cup.

The lack of raking I attribute to 50% laziness, 50% entitlement. I don't think many golfers think the rakes are there for the Wednesday morning garden club meeting.

and you don't even have to bend to fill a divot

I was really rooting for 'ignorance', you know people just moved to TV & took up golf, never having had fathers, brothers, what have you teach them the game & it's associated responsibilities. Then we might have had a chance with posts like this to improve the general knowledge. No chance whatsoever with laziness &/or entitlement.

And the solution to that is a bit more Draconian: Anyone new to golf, been playing less than 10 years or anyone with a handicap, let's say above 20, be required to take the "good golf" course before they are granted playing privileges.

Great thread, and I agree with everything you've said until this post. Your criteria is much too restrictive. It should be EVERYONE, no matter their age, handicap, or how long they've been playing, should take the Good Golf course before being allowed to play on the courses.

Yes, some will take offense because they have been playing "Forever", these are, in my experience for the last 10 years living in The Villages, the ones that need the "refresher" the most. A good golfer will not be offended, they will appreciate the emphasis on the care of the course which improves for the play of the game for all. The less experienced should be exposed to not only how to help maintain the course, but why. Show them an abused bunker, fairway, tee box, and green, and give them the opportunity to putt on a POS green that's been abused by the players, or chip out of a deep footprint on the edge of a bunker, and then on one that has been property cared for, open there eyes! Show them the difference in maintenance cost. Educate them on why it is important! The better the play them more they will love the game, they better they will play (I have to exclude myself from the last part of this statement, nothing is going to help my game).

Agree, Good thread.
Everyone blames the deteriorating conditions on the maintenance, where really WE can keep the courses nice, especially in the high season

1) I think those playing championships have played more golf and should know better. You’re not paying $50 to play if you’re a beginner or not that good - youll play executive; and have more fun

2) The golfers aren’t even using the rakes, BUT the rakes that are out are 12”; a 20 or 24” rake is much easier to rake and you get a better finished product.

3) The best system that works is loss of golf privilege or loss of access to tee time system for a week or month. I don’t know how that can work here; but technology can help. Upgrade the ID system with RFID tags - or require tags on carts. Rangers don’t need to confront abusers, just be around and see when people don’t rake or fix divots - boom; shut down ID to reserve tee times for a week. Heck, shut down the whole 4 some and it will become self monitoring. Will fix itself in a month.

Could also have 2 levels of good golf course - one for those with index above 15 and one below - different content.

I totally agree with this. Why do we "require" villagers to watch a video and take a course before they can step on a pickleball court. But we do not require them to attend Good Golf class before they get golf privileges. It makes no sense.

I missed these "requirements".

Very difficult here in TV, since the "country clubs" are not truly private courses. I have a friend who is a pro at the Boca Polo Club. They have cameras everywhere and a person watching them from a control room. Every foursome is observed and timed. If they are getting behind, they are notified by speaker and the viewscreen in the cart. If they pull any of the garbage that is routine here (not filling divots, not raking bunkers, not repairing ball marks) they get a letter. Three letters---suspension of privileges for 2 weeks. Five letters or doing something egregious, you're ejected from the club. And since the bond is $150,000, you do not want to get ejected.

Naturally this is an outrageously expensive solution to the problem and somewhat Orwellian as well. More "ambassadors" with more enforcement powers (and the willingness to use them) might help, but we seemed to have gone in the other direction with that.

Wouldn't object to that either. It just seemed it might be difficult to tell Rory Mcilroy he can't play here with John Rahm, Scottie Sheffler and Victor Hovland until they all attend Good Golf School. And would Patrick Reed have held the course record at Havana if he had to go to school first? (Well, in his case, maybe golf rules school :1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:)

Then you get into the problem of guests---how do they qualify to play? My ex brother in law is head pro at a club in Mass.---he came down several times to play--did he need to go to school? And here's another Villages quirk----they only "comp" a visiting PGA pro once a year, after that, full price. I sure hope if Tiger decides he wants to come here often that he brings his wallet. Talk about cheaping out!

So it is a complicated issue. Like my father always aid, "You can't legislate morality"--or in this case golf etiquette.

It’s laziness. People know. Lots of old lazy people here

Solution - good golf courses require a caddy, IPSO FACTO !

Attachment 101132

Age-old problem.

For once, size does not matter:
Handicap doesn't matter.
Investment portfolio doesn't matter.
Green fees don't matter.

It's a lack of pride, respect & responsibility.

Like other posts.............it's expensive, but the courses need to be policed (unfortunately).

Thanks for calling this out. I agree people need to take better care of these nice courses

Amen, Preach it.

Now try and get ABnB tourists to receive it.

Well, I have a solution for the Airbnb problem in general that would reduce about 80% of them. IF, and it is a big IF that has been repeated that Florida law prevents a locality from banning short term rentals, there is a back door solution completely within the control of TV---do not allow guest passes for Airbnb tenants. The appeal of a weekend stay in TV will decline dramatically.

I think it extends further than that. IMO the kind of "golfer" who would neglect things like that, i.e. not respecting basic etiquette such as repairing ball marks, filling divots, etc. is the same kind of PERSON who thinks nothing of chucking a styrofoam cup out his car window, or passing a golf cart with his when a walker is in his lane and then barely swerving in on time so that the walker is not injured, or tossing one or more of those little fireball whiskey containers out of his cart so that he doesn't have to explain something uncomfortable to his wife once he gets home.

Believe it or not, I also saw a guy empty an ASHTRAY in his cart onto the MMP by Savannah Center. I rounded the turn behind him just as he finished scattering cigarette butts all over the path. He took off in a hurry. Maybe he at least had the grace to feel ashamed, but I doubt it.

If you're a courteous person on the golf course odds are that you are a courteous person in other aspects of your life as well. Unfortunately the opposite is probably also true.

Class of Golfer
 

Class of golfer has nothing to do with it!! We need to take pride in these courses weather t be Chanpionship or Executive, these are OUR courses and shoud take pride in keping nice. Fix a ball mark, fix a divot, pick-up broken tees and let other people know to do the same!!

Learning
 

They will learn as soon as they learn to use turn signals when turning! Lazy is lazy!

Consider the preciousness of others:

Philippians 2:3-4
“Do nothing out of selfish ambition or vain conceit. Rather, in humility value others above yourselves, not looking to your own interests but each of you to the interests of the others.” With everyone looking out for everyone else's interests more than their own, no one would be in need.

Besides regular life, this verse also applies to Golf life. 😇
So fix your damn ball mark and keep moving to the next hole!

I grew up playing golf at 10 years old. My mentors taught me golf course etiquette. Many golfers in The Villages, started playing golf when they moved here and never bothered to learn the etiquette. Sad!

But wouldn't that delay the complaining about the condition of the course? For some people that's half the fun of playing golf.

So you judge a person's character based on his wealth? I've played with a lot of "millionaires" whose philosophy is "I paid a lot of money to play here. They can rake their own bunkers. That's what I pay them for."

I know a lot of people who play or have played pickleball. But I've never heard of one having to take a "required course".

As you stated LV was great after being shut down for months. From your past experience you predict in 3 weeks it will be back to shambles. The blame you put on the golfers - I don't disagree. However part of the problem maybe the amount of play being the most of any courses in the world and not enough down time to recuperate. You will never get 100% of golfers to take the responsibility to the level of your expectations. Simply too many. Ask yourself do all people drive the speed limit? Ironically speed limits are the law not etiquette.


Solution - RAISE THE RATES to decrease demand. The same philosophy as raising interest rates to combat inflation.

I have noticed just in the last 2 weeks how the course conditions have deteriorated. Every green with multiple ball marks and/or repaired so poorly they affect a putt. Bunkers not raked, and rakes strewn to poor places to retrieve them. Divots not filled, etc. Part of this is attributable to more play, but everyone of these can be improved and totally fixed if everyone just cleans up after themselves. I am an old caddie and we were taught to leave the bunker better than we found it. I see people all the time walk out of a trap and drag the rake behind them. That is not raking the trap. Just look back and see if you even hit your foot prints. IMO the starters and even the folks that check players in at the pro shop could do a much better job of reinforcing these basic good golf practices by telling every single group, every single time that those are the rules of the course. I am also a big advocate for the 90 degree rule. If we all did that maybe the fairways would be playable for another 30 days into the winter. It takes no more time or energy, just requires a little attention to detail.

Gee wiz. I played Palmer yesterday and the course was in great condition. I teed off at 8:50 and I didn’t see any of the issues to which you refer. The greens, aprons, fairways, and bunkers were perfect.

There you have it, spot on Dewi.

Our local course in UK employs a sniper who is positioned in a high tower overlooking all of the course.
Anyone not repairing pitch marks, divots or not raking sand traps is shot
Only three have died over the last four years, funnily enough all were Americans, and all lived in The Villages!:duck:

Amen brother. I really agree with you especially the last paragraph. I've seen a lot of what you described at many of the executive courses. I've even seen a sand rake that had been ran over and thrown into the bushes by the guilty party. The ambassador was wondering why they were short a rake! The powers to be should have made the Good Golf Class mandatory before people are assigned a way to make tee time reservations but I don't know how much that would help. Some people have absolutely no respect for the amenities we all pay for and share.:ohdear:

Golfers ( Villagers) used to take pride in The Villages golf courses, used to fix their and other divots on the greens and fairways, now the attitude of new golfers on Championship and/or Executive Course, it’s all about them, let someone else do it.

Since the starters know if you have paid your annual trail fees, why not charge 2 times the trail fee ( on executive courses) or 50% surcharge ( for championship courses) for those who haven’t attended good golf school? All of our play is tracked by a computer system and this would be a small add on. I would gladly reenroll in good golf school if it helped people to take better care of our courses. Heck, I would gladly have to attend every five years ( with everyone else, of course) if it improved the quality of our courses.

LV complaint
 

It’s the snow birds that come here and don’t care because they’ll leave in 4/6 months and won’t come back until they have the courses back in good shape. We that live here have to play thru there mess.