Golf request points calculations
 

I am trying to figure out how points are calculated for golf requests. What is the difference between placement points and reservation points? And how are they calculated?

I have read the Golfing in the Villages pamphlet, looked at the golf website, and called the golf office for an explanation and I am still baffled.

If someone plays twice a week at an executive course, how many points do they have when they are trying to make a request for the following week?

call TV

You specifically asked about a reservation. If you are trying to make a reservation then points don't matter. However, if you really meant to ask about trying to obtain a tee time via a request (different than trying to make a reservation) then points do matter but you didn't provide enough information to precisely answer the question. However, it would typically be two points (for your two tee times) but could be lower depending on how the tee times were obtained. Tee times obtained via the request system can have less than one point depending on the time difference between the actual tee time and when you indicated you wanted to play. Tee times obtained via a reservation have one point, as do tee time obtained the day of at the starter shack as a walk up or if you called. This also assumes you didn't have some other tee time that you canceled before the day of the tee time, or canceled the day of the tee time/didn't show up for the tee time. In those cases, two and three penalty points, respectively, would apply. Points roll off after seven days.

Who cares?

I did.

I stated that I had called the golf office. The person that I spoke to didn’t understand the system either but said it was all on the website.

Thanks for your answer.

That was a typo. I meant request. I have changed it.

What about placement points? How are they calculated? How do placement points affect a request?

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Golf The Villages

The whole video is good but the meat of what you are asking starts at 1:30:50

Thanks for the link! And thanks for telling me where to start! That saved a lot of time!

It was very helpful. I almost have the system figured out.

Figured out ………..then what?
Asking for a friend.

If you understand how something works, it is usually helpful.

If you figure it out, you can make an educated guess as to whether a request will be granted.

I golf with various friends and some of them play more regularly than others. If I really want to play on a certain day, I will pair with the person who has the fewest points rather than the one with the most points.

Golfers using the online system to request t times. That’s a lot of Villagers.

If you do search on this site you will find your answers

2 playing points
 

2 points
There are no points requesting a tee Time.

How do placement points affect the request??

Finally
 

Now *that* was helpful. Might've expected to have been pointed in that direction before now.

Basically if you play to much at premium times it puts at the back of line during those times. Kinda keeps the golf hogs at bay which is the intent to point system IMO.

Attend good golf school.

I think it’s pretty simple. If you play you get a point. If you call to cancel a reservation you get two points. If you don’t show up and don’t call you get three points that last in a seven day rotation.

Obviously the original poster!!

How do placement points impact your request?

Golfing Points
 

There are no “placement” points. There are reservation points and playing points. Each time you play you get 1pt for the reservation and 1pt for playing, which last for 7 days. These points accumulate every time you play for 7 days. If you cancel or are a no show, you accumulate 3pts.

People drive from exec course to exec course throughout the day to play. They do not realize that they are accumulating points. So when they play in a group and a TT Request is input, the TT system may kick the group out, because of too many points. The average weekly points to have is 3 to 4 to play in a group. However, during season it doesn’t matter if you have zero points, because the system and requests is over run by too many people playing golf during this time. Hence the reason why people drive from course to course looking for open spots verses using the automated TT System.

Please attend the New to Golf School, which is free. To best educate yourself on how to use the automated TT System.

Happy Golfing!

reservation points place you in an order of hierarchy of who gets reservations first. eg on executive courses residences are placed higher than resident guests. On championship courses enhanced members come into play and are placed higher on the hierarchy than a regular resident. THEN based upon that hierarchy/reservation points the reservation system will look to see who has the lowest average points to assigned along with the hierarchy to assign tee times. If you are talking about assigned points you get one point for each round played in a rolling 7 day period (mind you that executive points and championship points are two separate point totals). If you cancel prior to the day of your tee time you will receive two points, if you cancel same day of your tee time it will be 3 points.

I will try to answer your question, and hopefully not muddy the waters. There are 2 types of points...placement points, and reservation points. Placement points are derived from a golfer's status, i.e, Resident, Guest, Enhanced Member (old Priority), and Enhanced Member Guest. Reservation points come from tee times granted. Keep in mind that both types of points only come into play when someone is making a Request via the tee time system. Tee times obtained 1-3 days prior to the day of play are considered "open tee times," and are not subject to either type of points.

Placement points are the first value considered when the tee time system's algorithm goes to work. They are broken down as follows: Enhanced Member = 1 point; Enhanced Guest = 2 points; Resident Member = 6 points; Resident Guest = 7 points. Based on these point values, an average of Placement Points is calculated for your group. A group with a lower average of Placement Points will receive priority over a higher number group.

Placement Points come into play mostly on Championship courses, primarily because being an Enhanced Member has no bearing on play at Executive courses. However, Placement Points can still affect the priority of tee times granted on Executive courses if a request includes Guests.

The whole purpose of Placement Points is to ensure that those residents who pay extra for an Enhanced membership will always receive priority in tee time allocation over those who do not pay extra. It also places any request that includes Guests lower in priority than those that include residents only.

Once the algorithm churns through the sorting based on Placement Points, it goes to work on prioritizing requests by looking at Reservation Points. That is a whole new ball of cheese.

Placement points involve guests and you don't see them
 

All residents get six points each, guests get seven. All groups averaging six are looked at first by the computer system to honor your request. This is the reason you are asked if there are guests.

This answer is correct if the first word is changed to “placement points”. If you are a resident, you are assigned MORE placement points than a Premium/Priority (those who pay a fee to play championship golf courses). It’s a big difference in placement points between premium and regular member. Regular members have fewer placement points than guests. Etc. Sum of placement points plus your “playing points” determines your request priority. And also executive course playing points are separate from championship course points. So if you play a lot of execs and then want to put in a request for a championship course, you will have zero playing points in that request. Complicated but it does indeed seem to be reasonably fair

This information is not correct. There certainly are placement points, and they are the first item considered in any request made in the tee time system.

Also, you do not automatically get 3 points to cancel/no show. One point is assessed for obtaining a reservation, whether thru a request or direct reservation. If you play, it remains as one point. If you cancel a reservation 2 or three days prior to the reserved time, you get one penalty point, for a total of 2 points. If you cancel the day of play, or are a no-show, you get 2 penalty points, for a total of 3.

The algorithm used by the tee time system is very complex, but in it's simplest terms you can count on this: If playing championship courses, Enhanced Members will always have priority over those without it. On executive courses, groups that include guests will go to the bottom of the pecking order. Groups that include golfers with a high number of points will struggle for tee times during the busy season.

Great explanation!!!

Placement points were what confused me because I think I saw a post where someone said that he tries to keep his group point average below 3 points. Wouldn't that be impossible if everyone has 6 placement points to start with?

So if I play 5 times in the past week, I have 5 points for playing and 6 placement points for a total of 11 points?

And If I played 2 times last week, I would have 8 points?

And if I didn't play at all, I would still have 6 points?

I would've asked to speak to another person… If the person that works at the office called... the golf office does not know that maybe that should be pointed out to… The golf office

My point is instead of asking a bunch of people on this forum what to do, you may want to go right to the entity that is supposed to know what to do.

points
 

• Reservation Point: number of reservations a resident has received over the last 7 days
• 1 Point is awarded to all tee times on the championship courses until 2:00 PM
• no reservation point when made on the day of play at the Championship courses
• 1 point for cancelling a tee time prior to the day of play.
• 2 Points for cancelling on the day of play.
• Champion & exec points are separate

They are supposed to know what to do but in my experience, if you call many stores or companies seeking information, they do not know the answer to your question.

Several of the people on this forum have been very helpful.

Excellent - you understand the system.
Most golfers complaining about their group not getting tee times in high season do not understand the preferred placement part of the point system. At 1:37:37 of the video it is explained. It takes some concentrated listening to totally digest it. I perhaps can help - Think of it as two tiers - 1 your placement priority 2 your usage points.Your placement tier is the first hierarchy in the algorithm then the points usage average kicks in. Thus everyone with the highest placement priority followed by rank order usage points only within that placement category comes first. Then the same thing starts all over for the second highest placement category.
My experience is golfers that play championship courses often usually have a grip on this. Very few executive groups realize there is both a placement and point categories.

Hierarchies
 

Thank you!

I get it that my opinion will never change the system, but that is just wrong. NO GUEST should ever have priority over a resident. Plus, that allows enhanced members to game the system. They can request spots for guests, blocking out other residents, and then once the time is allocated they can substitute in golfers with higher placement points.

Otherwise, I find the allocation algorithm to be a very good effort at fairness. Especially as it pertains to Executive golf.

2 points

You need to go to Good Golf Seminar. They are free and explain how the system works. Takes about 2 hours of your time, but with fellow golfers.

The Tee Time system is Not a first come - first served system. Rather it is Point Based. Points count when making a Request for a tee time, but do not matter if you are Reserving an open time after Requests have been filled (the system fulfills Request right after midnite 3 days before the day of Request).

Again, you need to got to Good Golf Seminar. Look for times on the Villages App.

We have only had issues making Request for big groups - 5 or 6 foursomes - during the Winter. Have never had a problem making a Request for 4, 2, or 1 during anytime of year.

Verrrry complicated and you will need to be a computer geek to figure out. Met the person who wrote the program and he admitted that it was very complicated. Best way is to forget about it and do your best to NEVER cancel a reservation or cancel as early as possible. Pay close attention to weather when making your tee time.

Personally I do not care. Whatever I or anyone else does is not going to change anything. The computer system answers to no one. Put my tee time in and hope to get it. If I don't I go back in and find an open tee time.

3/11/2023, 2:02 PM How the golf system works - as I understand it
 

Note that this is copied spreadsheet and that some of locations of elements are not aligned. I can send the actual spreadsheet if you send me your email addr


Tee times are assigned through the T time system from requests made 4 to 7 days before the target play date. The Championship and Executive assigning systems are independent of each other – playing executive courses does not affect championship course play.
The order of the course and time reserved uses a two level selection process - Placement points first then Reservation points.
Priority members and priority guests are considered to be resident members and resident guests for Executive courses. Placement points are assigned according to the following table noting that being a priority member does not affect executive placement points only championship placement points.


Champ Exec
Priority Member Placement Points 1 6
Priority Guest Placement Points 2 7
Resident Member Placement Points 6 6
Resident Guest Placement Points 7 7
Reservation points are assigned when a reservation is granted – one point per player per reservation. Each reservation point lasts one week from the reservation date.
Extra reservation points are assigned when the reservation is skipped or changed for various reasons.
Deleting or substituting for a player after a reservation is made but before the reservation date adds one reservation point for that player for a total of two reservation points for that reservation. The player substituting in receives one reservation point.
No changes to the reservation can be made on the reservation date. If a player does not play on the reservation date, two reservation points are added for a total of three reservation points.
However, for executive courses, if a player reports to the reserved course starter shack on the reservation date prior to the scheduled T time but does not play, no extra reservation points are assigned. This assumes the player pays any trail fee or green fee if owed.

Once the order is determined, the reservation of a course depends on the day selected, the time or course selected and finally on the availability of the course and time for the number of players.

If the process determines that the time window cannot be satisfied but there is availability outside the time window, a reservation may be made and the players will receive a fraction of one reservation point.

An example of using AVERAGE Placement points and AVERAGE Reservation points on Championship courses follows – note there are some ties – unsure how they are resolved
# Priority Members # Priority Guests # Resident Members # Resident Guests Placement Points Placement Point Avg Placement Sequence Reservation Point Avg Assigned
4


4 1.00 1 0.50 1st
4


4 1.00 1 1.00 2nd
4


4 1.00 1 2.50 3rd
3 1

5 1.25 2 1.00 4th
3 1

5 1.25 2 1.50 5th
2 2

6 1.50 3 0.00 6th
2 2

6 1.50 3 1.00 7th
1 1

3 1.50 3 2.00 8th
2 2

6 1.50 3 2.00 8th
1 1

3 1.50 3 3.00 9th
1 1

3 1.50 3 4.00 10th
1 3

7 1.75 4 1.00 11th
3
1
9 2.25 5 4.00 12th
2
1
8 2.67 6 1.00 13th
2
2
14 3.50 7 0.50 14th
2
1 1 15 3.75 8 1.50 15th
1 1 1 1 16 4.00 9 2.50 16th


4
24 6.00 10 1.00 17th


2 2 26 6.50 11 0.50 18th


An example of using AVERAGE Placement points and AVERAGE Reservation points on Executive courses follows – note there are some ties – unsure how they are resolved
# Priority Members # Priority Guests # Resident Members # Resident Guests Placement Points Placement Point Avg Placement Sequence Reservation Point Avg Assigned
4


24 6.0 1 0 1st
4
1
30 6.0 1 1 2nd
2
1
18 6.0 1 2 3rd


4
24 6.0 1 4 4th
4 1

31 6.2 2 0 5th
3
1 1 31 6.2 2 2 6th
2
2 1 31 6.2 2 2 6th
3 1

25 6.3 3 2 7th
3 1

25 6.3 3 2 7th
2
1 1 25 6.3 3 2 7th
2 2 1
32 6.4 4 4 8th
2 2

26 6.5 5 3 9th
1 1 1 1 26 6.5 5 3 9th
1 1

13 6.5 5 4 10th
1 1

13 6.5 5 5 11th
1 1

13 6.5 5 5 11th


2 2 26 6.5 5 6 12th
2 2
1 33 6.6 6 5 13th


2 4 40 6.7 7 2 14th
1 3

27 6.8 8 1 15th


2 6 54 6.8 8 2 16th

--
Best Regards
Matt

Yes, and some folks cheat on their taxes, too...which isn't fair.

An Enhanced member could submit a request with a guest, and then substitute a non-enhanced member after a reservation was granted. This could be totally legitimate, or he/she could be "gaming" the system if done on a frequent basis. The algorithm used by the tee time system has the ability to identify what is considered abuse of the system, and punish the offender. I know a resident who had his golfing privileges suspended for frequently using "ghost golfers" on requests. He tried to claim that he didn't know there was anything wrong with that, but his argument fell on deaf ears.

There really is no need to go too deep into the woods when thinking about this. Again, the algorithm used by the system is very complex, but it does a really good job of keeping the assignment of tee times as fair as possible.

First off, the Placement points and Reservation points are not added together. They are considered separately, with Placement points being looked at first. Everyone has Placement points, but not everyone has Reservation points. When you make a request in the system, you will not see the Placement points (which are calculated in the background) for your group, but you will see each golfer's Reservation points. All requests are first prioritized according to the average number of Placement points for the group. Then, average Reservation points for the group are applied, and prioritized again. It is possible for a group with a higher average of Reservation points to have priority over another group, if their average of Placement points is lower.

But...this is mostly important only on Championship courses, where the Enhanced members have a big advantage in the Placement point category. For executive course play, all residents are treated the same as far as Placement points go, with the only difference being guests, which carry one point more than residents.

And, you must remember that Reservation points are a constantly moving target, as the system looks at the previous 7 days. As an example, if you submit a request on a Thursday to play the next week on Thursday, you will see the Reservation points assigned to each golfer in your group. But, those point values can, and likely will, change before the next week. It is not the point values shown when you make the request that count...it is the point values each golfer has when the request goes into the system. In this Thursday example, your request will go into the system at 12:01am on Monday morning. The points that each golfer has at that time are what count for your group. So, a golfer that had 2 points when you made the request on Thursday could easily have 4 points, or zero points, by Monday morning.

Sorry for the long winded response. Hopefully this helps explain a little about how the system works, and maybe help folks understand the reason behind not getting a tee time. For simplicity's sake, just think of it this way: If you mostly play Executive courses, don't even think about Placement points, unless your group has a guest. If so, understand your group will have a lower priority than groups made up entirely or residents. When playing Championship courses, know that groups made up of Enhanced members will always have priority over groups of non-Enhanced members.

Whew.