Crumbley Sentencing
 

Today, James and Jennifer Crumbley were sentenced 10 to 15 years in prison for involuntary manslaughter for negligence in connection with the 4 murders committed by their son, Ethan, who was 15, in Michigan. I understand that they were probably negligent and could have done more to prevent their son from committing the crimes. But, they didn't commit the murders. I would also point out that Ethan was charged and sentenced as an adult, not a juvenile.

What about the hundreds of juveniles who walk around with illegal handguns and commit murders in cities like Chicago, New York, Baltimore and other cities every day. Some of these murderers are as young as 13 years old, they are out on the streets after midnight, and their parents have no idea where they are or what they are doing. In most of these cases, law enforcement doesn't even think about arresting or charging the parents with any crime at all. To me, this sounds like a very inconsistent and unfair legal system regarding arrest and prosecution. What do you think?

If you watched any of the proceedings and saw the evidence presented on how they ignored his cries for help, you had to know he really should have been in treatment for his mental health. Then, knowing his state of mind, your reaction is to buy him a gun, they really contributed to the killings by their actions.

We watched some of the sentencing. A 'slippery slope' as some legal analysts said.

BUT - yikes in this case, in THIS case it surely was correct for the parents to serve time.They both ignored serious mental issues with their son right up to the day of the shooting. Even bought HIM the gun that he used, several days before. Texts between the son and parents, right up to the shooting were so damning. And both of the parent's statements at the end were all about THEM, and little about the victims. If there is ANY case ripe for sentencing liable parents - THIS IS IT!!!

I always think of the VICTIMS - not the aggressors and convictees.

If the same standards were applied in Baltimore City perhaps half the adult population would be in prison.

They certainly are culpable of something but this is beyond the pale. They need to appeal. They'll probably end up bankrupt.


They should have hired O.J.'s lawyer, what's his name, Johnnie Cochran.

I think...you're talking about Michigan.

So, these parents should go to jail, but the parents of a 13 year old who commits a murder at 2am should not be charged with any crime?

I said Michigan.

Does this open the door for the parents of the children that were killed in various terrible school massacres to follow suit and sue.

The boy was “unwell”. Yet the parents bought him a gun. There was a direct link. Your 2 AM accusation has a lot of voids and is too general to make a comparison.

Hopefully the beginning of some long needed “Common Sense Gun Laws”.

I think that was his point.

Parents are, supposedly, responsible for their children. If you buy your child a weapon and they use it to commit a crime, imo, you are guilty of aiding and abetting, at least. If your child is ill, mentally or physically, and you don't know it, you have failed as a parent.

I think they should. Hold parents accountable.

I don't disagree, but there are hundreds of juveniles committing murders, but these are the only parents being held accountable. It should be evenly enforced. Also, this murderer was tried as an adult, so, the state argued that he was acting as an adult, not as a juvenile. He is either an adult, or he is a child. You can't have it both ways. If he is an adult, how can you blame the parents for his actions?

Yes you can. Imo, if you or I give another adult a gun and they commit murder, you or I might find ourself in court as an accessory. We didn't commit the murder, but we facilitated it. Don't give or loan stuff if there is the slightest question about its use and/or the trustworthiness of the individual involved.

The parents deserve every bit of the prison sentences. Anyone failing to secure their firearm from unauthorized use should be charged as an accessory if that firearm is used in the commission of a crime. The Crumbleys were wantonly negligent.

Great points agree

Is a 15 year old allowed to purchase a gun legally? No. Did his parents purchase the gun to give to him? Yes all while knowing he’s mentally unstable. Who should be responsible for the gun? The person it’s registered to. That’s the problem. It’s a responsibility to own a gun. I’ve seen too many times small children shooting and killing siblings, parents, friends etc because the gun owner didn’t have the gun stored properly. There should absolutely be consequences for the registered gun owner.

I agree with the parents being held accountable but, being from Chicago and witnessing so much inner city crime, I do agree that the same rules should apply when applicable. This “hypocrytical soft on crime with not being held accountable” stuff is making the crimes escalate.

Gun
 

They knew their son had mental problems and they bought him a gun. Yes they are partially responsible

I think it set a precedent! This may be used in connection with facts they can prove. To compare kids wandering around big cities is not a fair comparison. What would the prosecution prove in that case against the parents. No hard facts. The fact that his parents bought him a gun and didn't secure it, the parents and the school never searched his backpack is really an issue. The parents fled and hid planning to leave the US - GUILTY!

Each state has their own laws and penalties for crimes committed. If more states followed Michigan's leadership maybe the crime by juveniles would drop.

I believe you answered your own question in your question. "Some of these murderers are as young as 13 years they are out on the streets after midnight, and their parents have no idea where they are or what they are doing". These kids in Chicago, New York, Baltimore are in most cases living in poor and broken homes, their parents are not buying them guns. These two knew their son had problems and they buy him a gun, that is either stupidity or total disregard of safety for others. Even if they didn't care about others in his mental condition, he could have easily had used the gun on himself. These people should never had become parents.

A small step in the right direction. Negligent parenting at its worst. But the cases should be judged with a heavy emphasis on the facts in each case. And a huge bow to equity.

I think parents that don’t get involved and pay attention to all the warning signs in their child’s life and the child commits a heinous crime like Ethan did should be held responsible

I think this sentence of the parents sends a message to all those parents you describe who don't know what their kids are or what they are doing. Civic leaders in all those cities you called out have been pleading for some time for parents to wake up and be responsible parents to help stop the unnecessary crimes by juveniles. Parents need to either put in the time parenting or they too can do time for their kids actions. I'm in support of this decision.

Exactly , knowingly allowing some who is mentally unstable access to or much worse providing a deadly weapon makes you culpable, it is understandable that the emotional attachment one feels for their children can blind them , but there are limits,

Yes you can have it both ways. There are numerous cases where one adult is convicted of a crime and other adults are convicted as accomplices. The "non charging" of other teens in murders has more to do with the many liberal DAs than it does anything thing else.

retiredguy....if they were your children or grandchildren, you would feel different I'm sure

A planned school shooting and gang violence are hardly equal.

Theyre lucky that’s all they got. They are just as if not more responsible for all this than their son. They helped him get the tools needed to kill people knowing he had mental issues. Shame on them.

I didn't follow the trial but we have to remember that each state has its own laws, which could account for the different approach to the same crime. School shootings are a particularly sensitive topic, as well! It does seem incongruent though to have him tried as an adult and then hold someone else accountable too. I suppose the case was made that they were "accessories before the fact". Sending threatening text messages (father) to the prosecutor probably didn't ingratiate him to the court either :shrug:

FredF

Do the parents of kids in gangs (which is what you are talking about) actively enable their children as these parents did?

You may be right to suggest that all these parents should face criminal charges. With the right to bear arms (and purchase them) comes the responsibility of bearing them safely and not misusing them. With the right to bear children should be the duty to bring them up in the way they should go so they will not depart from it. The failure to do that may be nationwide, though most raise their children well. It’s hardest in neighborhoods with the highest crime rates, but it’s true that this is where the worst parents are found. It is terrifying for parents to have a child who is mentally unstable. This happens even to the best parents, though. Of course, the best parents seek help, and they don’t buy their kids guns.

No. And yes.

I know it never happens quite the way it should in America but laws, to be most effective, should be applied equally across-the-board. The unfortunate reality is that the high-profile cases, particularly if those cases are in the sights (no pun intended) of the social crusaders among us, get often overwhelming media attention. Maybe, deservedly so...but how many juveniles died by gun violence on the part of other juveniles in 2020 in Detroit? Or Flint? Or Muskegon Harbor? Or Benton Heights? Or... and in those instances, how many parents were held to account for what their kid(s) did?

And why not?

I'm all for holding parents responsible for the misdeeds of their children. The way things are going it seems as if it would be the ONLY way to make a dent in juvenile crime. But to say that Michigan is setting an example would be a valid claim ONLY if Michigan is holding parents responsible across-the-board for the misdeeds of their children.

But they're not.

It might be difficult for parents working three minimum-wage jobs to pay rent, clothe, and feed their children to spend more time with them. I assure you that such parents love their kids and would love to be with them more, but time on the job and exhaustion make that impossible. Should they quit one of their jobs and maybe be evicted for not paying rent on time?

Most parents in the inner-city aren’t actively enabling their kids to commit crimes as these two did.

Understand what controls the (il)legal maritime law system. >B.A.R.=British Accreditation Registry.
State of Washington just removed the requirement of graduating law students to take the B.A.R. exam. Things will change. SLOWLY

So, to you, the parents who have been told their son has mental problems, should go out and buy him a gun and keep it unsecured, and tell him to not get caught at school... should not face consequences since some 13 year old somewhere also committed a crime?

I agree more parents should be held accountable for their delinquent childrens crimes.

Not Equal
 

Parents in some states cannot use corporal punishment. If you tie their hands, can you then hold them accountable? Dr. Spock wasn’t that great of a disciplinarian, Glasser wasn't exactly a Dr. Dobson either. Raising kids is not a cookie cutter situation. I’m for whatever works.

"Some 13 year old somewhere"? There are hundreds of juveniles committing murders every year. Yet, none of their parents have ever been sent to prison.