NOT political - Arizona shooting
 

Please please let's keep these postings clean without political rhetoric...Don't you think that the media and the internet has made it sooooo easy for fueling hatred...You can post statements when you are NOT accountable...When did debate become obsolete? IF you were confronting the individual IN PERSON, would your statements be the same?

This is an American tragedy a public servant has been gunned down applying the 1st Amendment of the Constitution she read on the floor of the House just days ago.

We should all be saddened by what has happened. Each in our own way should be thinking about these family's and the burden they now have to bare.

It is tragic. Once again we see a seriously disturbed individual, with a gun.
Do we really want to continue to live with such liberal gun regulations?

The original poster asked that this post not include political rhetoric. I think the statement above about such liberal gun regulations is just that.
We would like to move this thread to political like we did the last one?
There is a very simple common sense answer to the liberal gun regulation claim above but I will hold my "ammunition" so to speak if everyone else does in this thread.
JJ

So sad. The 9 year old little girl was born on 9/11. She was a symbol of hope from that terrible day. This is a mass killing and so sad. The judge was coming from Mass. Again so sad. This needs to be discussed. This needs to be stopped.

Off we go to Political again.
 

Off we go to Political again.

What???????????? What statements are political??????Guess I know why no one posts!

You said: This needs to be discussed. This needs to be stopped.

The discussion on how it can be stopped will surely turn political, gun control. I will gladly discuss it but the creator of this thread specifically asked that we not do that in this thread.
Please start a thread in political on stopping this sort of crime and I will gladly post my ideas there.
JJ

Jim,
Went to brunch with 38 people and we discussed it. Going to dinner with 12 different people and we will discuss it. That's what I meant! I'm not a big fan of beautiful innocent people, especially a precious little girl getting murdered. If you think that is political...you are making it political. I think it is National News and maybe World News. Done. I prefer to talk with open minded people.
Larry

Larry: I agree with you completely that it needs to be discussed.
I am sorry but maybe I did not make myself clear that my only point in this thread that we should try to keep the content in this thread away from the politics which include gun control and incarceration of the mentally ill.
I wish I could join you and your friends in a discussion of these issues. They surely need to be discussed.
I only hope that people will discuss it without making accusations without proof, and will keep it civil.
This is truly a great tragedy, for all of the victims, their families, and America. Nothing justifies it.

reason for thread
 

really wanted to discuss how political rhetoric turns to "hatred" in political discussions (which incidently doesn't mean we have to discuss those issues)....How debate is NOT accountable because we are talking in cyber space (similar to road rage), hateful discussions rarely occur when you are "face to face" (We are more CONSIDERATE and POLITE) strange, Huh?....Why can't we really debate without getting personal....Politician and network hosts are just as guilty and certainly contribute to the political climate of the past few years!

This is so truly sad.
Prayers are going up for all families affected.
I was also saddened when I read all of the finger pointing within minutes of the tragedy.

I truly do not understand how this could be construed as political. I want to be respectful to the non political theme of this thread and not say anything wrong......as I see this it was a case of a very disturbed young person who had very serious issues........with a tragic result.

I read posts on msnbc, where tons of posters were blaming Palin, Beck, fox news, etc.........SO disrespectful to try to spin it that way it made me sick to my stomach......to try to gain political mileage from this is almost as sick as the act itself.

I think of this little 9 year old girl whose life will always be remembered as being born in tragedy and died in tragedy.

Another sad reminder that we indeed live in a fallen world. none of us are guaranteed the next hour......life is a precious gift that we too often forget the value of.

Frank

I don't think the discussion has anything to do with gun control. I just think that people who post pictures of our lawmakers in their "crosshairs" with a picture of a rifle, need to be held accountable. Surely, anyone can see that gun imagery like that (not related to gun rights) directed at members of one particular political party, sends a hateful message that fuels and motivates the crazies out there. I also think tabloid news stations like Fox and the political extremeists are way out of line with their rhetoric, which does nothing but divide the country. Hate has never been the answer and never will be.

Read this
 

The above link leads us to where the real truth is as to where the real hate resides. It's too bad and shameful that some have a desparate need to make the incident political and take political advantages of such a senseless and tradgic occurance That's the last thing this nation needs at this time!

Even in a perfect world, non of us is guaranteed the next hour....

The above link, blaze.com, is an instrument of Glenn Beck, a perfect example of a toxic hate mongerer. Beck has made a habit of demonizing President Obama and promoting "conspiracy theories" about his administration. He has even gone so far as to make comparisons between Hitler and Obama and to promote the idea that the president is dangerous. What foolishness. And people out there actually believe that crap. Beck and his fear mongering cronies like Rush Limbaugh and Sarah Palin are the dangererous ones and need to be stopped before more people die.

Yeah, what Taj44 said - only softer.

X

Here is what I think: We ALL need to be able to discuss policies without demonizing individuals. If a person did not like the fact we went into Iraq, fine, speak your peace, but don't demonize:spoken::spoken: Pres Bush as a person. You may disagree, but leave it at that.

Same with Pres Obama, you may disagree with him on his vision of health care. Fine disagree, but don't call him names and degrade him.

When we say ugly things about an individual, remember there may be a mental unbalanced person listening who then thinks it's OK to take the situation into his hands.

Avista
 

MY point exactly....Political threads need to tone it down, you never know who has a GUN!....Surely, NO ONE thinks that congressional policies are worthy of violence.....Please, let's all "coooool" our jets! Choose our words carefully and remember even thou we are transparent on-line someone is reading your blog who might take it to the next step.

I'm sorry, but you're not going to successfully engage me in a political argument with your left-wing politically motivated propaganda. Your opinions have nothing to do with what happened in Arizona nor does the placing of targets on a map like Democrat Harry Mitchell of Arizona did in 2006, and to claim they do is rediculous. Those kind of biased remarks you've made belong on the Daily Kos and Huffington Post where for years you have persistantly hear those kinds of vicious behavior toward conservatives. They also have no place on this supposed-to-be non-political thread, and the administrators should SERIOUSLY consider moving this thread to the Political Thread if they continue!

Well said Skyguy.

jebartle started this thread and asked it be kept non political. Out of respect for that person and the forum that is how it should be. Folks, if you cannot understand that simple request, or are so callous as to ignore it, please move over to the political forum......

Anyone who thinks this tragedy is political is a fool and not much different then the shooter. We live in a wonderful free country where healthy, intelligent discourse is a right bought with the blood of our ancestors, and sadly even some friends and children. To blame people engaging in that discourse for this crime, clearly the work of a sick individual, sullies the memory of those silent patriots.

Shame on you.

Dear Mr. FaithfulFrank:
I do not understand how you can think that this tragedy is not political. Ms. Giffords is a politician. She was not shot because she damaged someone's car, or because her dog crapped on their lawn, or because she played her stereo too loud. She was singled out at a political event and shot because she holds a political office and because certain individuals, crazy or not, disagree with her policies. A 9-year-old girl was killed just because she was in the wrong place at the wrong time. I resent your shaming me for stating the truth.

Thanks Frank! :agree:

The original poster asked that this not become political, but the TOTV crowd seems to have managed to followed the lead of the Pima County sheriff and done so. This leads me to doubt the usefullness and objectiveness of TOTV, in general. I have always acknowledged that many posts were the author's opinion, experience, or whatever in an effort to make Villagers, and newcomers in particular, more aware of whatever the subject may have been. I'd like to continue that, but a saturation point nears. I have never looked at or are not aware of content of the political forum (for a reason) , but if this has not become political then perhaps I need to be pursuing other avenues to dedicate my time to. God bless those that were affected by a senseless act. That should be the focus.

Kb8tpw
 

I too am frustrated by the way this post has spewed barf more rhetoric....
What part of NOT political is confusing.....I would, in a perfect world, like for everyone to go to "time-out" and look at the BIG picture and CHOOSE our words carefully and ask, "What I'm getting ready to say", "Will this hurt or help someone".....If you are going to be hateful then go to the "political forums"

This thread did turn political. I suggested it be moved to Political. I offered not to respond to the political rhetoric and asked posters to start a different thread away from this thread. They refused. So I responded.

The political discourse common today makes me sick.

My parents taught me to respect other people's opinions, even those that differed from mine, and try to find areas of agreement and commonality. That I should empathize with people who are of different persuasions and try to understand what in their lives makes them feel, think, or act the way they do. One story that I think illustrates the way I was brought up; I was about 10 years old and President Eisenhower was on the television, giving a speech. I was talking to someone else and said out loud - "He's an idiot" - referring to someone else we were talking about. My mother overheard me and thought I was saying that about the president, and gave me a stern lecture, saying that he was the president and should always be shown the proper respect, and never called names. Now I was well aware that my mother was a dyed in the wool Roosevelt democrat, and it struck me at the time, and has stayed with me to this day, that she was defending the honor of a president with whom she disagreed and opposed. I am glad I had the parental guidance that I had and wish more people had had the same.

Perfect! You stated that so well.

Does anybody think our permissive society, anything goes
 

violence wise movies, violence on television, violence in game content could possibly contribute to the increasing violence in public life?

Does anybody think there would be any less violence if there were no guns??

Do you believe the lack of discipline in our society contributes to any thing goes behavior?

How about not saying anything against an individual or group to avoid involvement? Or persecution/law suit for discrimination?

If it is not obvious our society has become a breeding ground for violence. It has nothing to do with politics or guns or what some politician may have said.

Decaying core values and permissive pacifism....major contributors.

And oh by the way I again object to the notion of some that political is where the nasty misbehavior of the forum belongs. It is the usual denigration of a group by a minority opinion about another minority instance or instances.

Look in the mirror to see who it is that can have an effect on how our society behaves.


btk

Of course there is a political association to this tragedy based on the fact that at least three of the victims were in politics, and the shooter decided to make his mark going after a politician at a political event.

That is obvious.

What the original poster here asked is that this thread not turn political. The BLAME for this act should not turn political. Within moments after the event, people were doing just that, blaming other politicians, political parties, famous news celebrities, etc. THAT is shameful.

The simple fact is this. ONE person is responsible for this, and he is in custody.

As wrong as that is, we cannot stop healthy discourse in fear that someone will do something crazy.

Frank

To

I read this twice and still have no idea what you are trying to say.

Simply put: does anyone believe our cultural environment
 

of the day contributes/allows/breeds/condones violence?

That guns or politics is not the issue!

btk

But isn't that what has been lost over the past 18 months?

I'm tired of
 

I'm tired hearing leftists on television blaming conservative politicians and celebrities for this psychopath's individual and reprehensible actions.

HE did it, and like every other person living in this free (so far) society, HE had a responsibility to respond to political rhetoric he didn't like in the same manner we are expected to responsibly respond to inflammatory or oppositional rhetoric:

TURN IT OFF! I'm conservative, and I routinely turn off people like Palin, Beck, etc. I get tired of hearing them nag about the same things over and over and I know I'm not the only one who thinks this way. If we are supposed to start banning what they say that could stir up a psycho viewer, are we supposed to ban Jody Foster from appearing in movies because one psycho nurtured his derangement by watching her and shot Pres. Ronald Reagan to impress her?!?!?

I have yet to hear leftists in the media hold this sole perpetrator responsible for his own actions. This is where we are really in trouble as a nation. We are becoming a nation of ENABLERS, where criminal perpetrators, drug addicts, alcoholics, and fake claimants of public disability monies, and other self-destructing people are not held responsible for their own actions. Young people are taught that "pity" is the remedy, not self-responsibility. Gone are the days of parents like mine who told us all the time, "You made your bed.....now sleep in it." And we had to deal with the consequences ourselves. But that is a dead notion now for young people.

The psychobabble-speak of the last 20 years is coming home to roost.

God help us all.

Good post Jane.

That sheriff.

He made me cringe.

I just do NOT see how political rhetoric has a place in discussing this awful event. Yes, she is a Congresswoman, but it is clear to me that this person, who I have NO feelings for, is sick. He was going to attempt to kill a bunch of people, and soon. He was obsessed with her for some reason. He is similar to the young man who killed so many at Virginia Tech.

I think somehow, we need to hope that Colleges can figure out a way to identify these people who are probably in the onset of Schizophrenia and then we as a country, or state, or city....need to figure out how to remove them safely from society before something like this happens. No small order.
Who decides and than where can they be held and treated? That in itself goes against a lot of people's values.

As I get older, the questions get harder.

Gracie we already have the laws to hospitalize the mentally ill before they commit a crime like this. Usually you can go to the clerk of court or the county mental health officer and sign a request to have them evaluated. You need a second person to sign. The signature of a doctor does not have to have a second person. Police Officers frequently take people who they arrest for criminal offenses that are minor take them to the mental hospital instead of jail.
In this case the college in AZ called the police but he was never hospitalized. That is why I am calling for a mandatory reporting law that would require at least educators, medical personnel, social workers, and police to notify the sheriff of a mentally ill person so they could be evaluated. There should be complete immunity from lawsuit if the report is made in good faith.

The law should also provide for there to be some consequence for those educators, medical personnel, social workers or any other responsible persons where there is evidence that they did not report where they should have!

That is what a mandatory reporter laws. It requires certain government employees and medical personnel such as doctors, nurses, police, educators, etc to report suspected child abuse and some states include misdemeanor criminal penalties, fines, and employment sanctions for failure to report. We need the immunity statute to keep this from becoming a big new Tort lawsuit area which will screw it all up.
JJ