Executive Golf - What if?
 

Years ago, one of The Villages' advertising pitches was "Free Golf For Life". I'm sure that may have convinced many of you to buy into the community. But perhaps that could be the reason for lack of tee times during the high season, and poor executive golf course conditions. So, let's take a look at this alternative idea - open for discussion:

Executive golf costs (let's say) $10 per round. This would likely reduce the amount of marginal and casual social golfers who only play because it is "free". This would make more tee times available during the high season. And if you book your tee time and don't show up, it still costs you $10. No refunds unless you show up for a credit.

To compensate for the above, the amenity fee gets reduced for all. How much? Maybe $30- $40 per month? Don't know. But it would certainly appreciated by golfers and non-golfers alike.

In addition, the $10 per round fee covers the so-called "trail fee". You can walk the course or drive your cart on the paths at no extra charge.

Perhaps the fees collected could provide superior course conditions. Plenty of room for improvement.

A good booking website is all you need to manage the payment system. GolfNow has been doing it for years.

The $10 fee and amenity fee reduction above are just guesses on my part. Someone would need to balance the figures. But perhaps this would provide a better experience for Executive Golf, for golfers and non-golfers alike.

"Free Golf For Life"? Or better Executive Golf? Open for discussion:

Absolute non-starter.
No way will the majority of people pay for Executive golf.
Non, Niet, Nein, Nada, Ugui..........!

Nope

Wouldn't work. Current residents would have to be grandfathered in.

Lots of grandfathers in TV.

Bad course conditions in season are due to incompetent maintenance

Never happen. I don't know the true cost of an exec round, but last year one of our county commissioners posted the breakdown of monthly amenity fees. If I remember, exec golf received $5.90/ month. It might have been $7.90, but it was single digits and nowhere near $30-40. Now, how many people do you think would be happy to pay $10/ round for something they are getting for $5.90/month????? And if implemented, reneging on "free golf for life", and enough people were put off that tee times significantly opened up, what do you think will happen to your property value???

I doubt it would/could ever happen, but I’m not entirely against the concept. Ten dollars per round would be well worth it if it actually resulted in better/more consistent conditions, easier to get midday t times during busy season, and faster play.

Even at $1 per round it would chase some marginal players away. Right now it is "Freeloader Golf".

True, but how many people picked up the game after moving here, and enjoy it?

It’s hardly freeloader golf if they are paying the amenity fee.

Interesting concept. It could be the start of a broader pay to play. Pickle ball at $5/hr (and pay for your own pickle balls), rec center meeting rooms at $25/night, pools at $10/visit, billiards at $5 per session and other outdoor activities at $5/hr. It would reduce our amenity fees and seriously free up recreation facilities. (I'm pulling your leg actually).

Sorry terrible idea

I didn't realize the goal of exec golf was to "chase marginal players away". It seems that the suggestion appears to be that "better" exec players should more of a right to getting the tee time they want over "lesser" players or beginners

That is NOT the spirit of this great game.

I don't play exec courses but from my point of view I can only laugh at those who think because they are better than others on exec courses that somehow they are Jack Nicklaus.

Let's engage in some reductio ad absurdum: Let's create a hierarchy of handicaps for full size courses. 0-5 get the best tee times, then 6-10, 11-15 and 16-20. Over 20 can only play on rainy days or get kicked over to an exec course. Shoot over 100 and you have to go to remedial golf school. Break a rule and you're banned for 2 weeks.

You see, there is only one best amateur golfer in The Villages so he should always play when he wants and have the right to kick anyone else off their tee time.

It's pretty clear where I was going with this, but there are doubts I'll be happy to play you from the black tees at Glenview or Tierra for say $1,000 per hole

$10 per round for a reduction of $40 in amenity fees? I play approximately 15 rounds per month. I'd end up paying more.


Sounds like a government plan.

and it's nowhere near $40/month

What is your handicap? If I break 100 on a championship course I am elated. And if I play an 18 holes of executive golf, I am excited if I shoot my age!

I would usually comment on a thread like this, but Mr. GolfingEagles seems to have it covered fairly well and he's much more diplomatic than I.

I'll just add this:

I put together a complete proposal, including CSI ratings, performance/conditioning bonuses for contractors, a low-cost methodology to implement the ratings/CSI, using the existing Tee Time system ... etc, etc. etc. It would have been funded by a $1-$2 increase in trail fees.

I pitched it to the District and Mitch Leninger.

It's most likely in the circular file at this point.

Golf
 

How about $5?

Let the person have an opinion
 

Everyone is entitled to an opinion. Honestly, I don't think he is far off. Novice golfers do in fact hurt the course because they are not familiar with filling divots, fixing ball marks on the green, and moreover, when they do hit the green, they are too excited than to worry about fixing a ball mark. I'd rather the Ambassador monitor the play, educate people to help them learn, and if there are repeat offenders, the Ambassador write's them up and they get more points for the week, limiting their ability to play. We do need to do better, but instead of shutting ideas down immediately, let's find solutions...

But your “marginal and casual” golfers (your #1 reason for a $10 charge) still love to play golf- for fun, for sport and for the challenge. My apologies for not playing up to your level. In my view, those with better games challenge themselves on traditional 18 hole courses.

Like everything, there is nothing "free for life". We have trail fees. A lifetime subscription often has maintenance fees or some other mechanism to continue to feed the beast.

That would be a hard sell to anyone that lives here including me and I don’t golf.

Nope

It used to be +1, now it's a bit higher. But that wasn't my point. Golf is not a game of excluding beginners and poor players. No good player makes fun of someone who is not as good, which is why I called out the concept of restricting "lesser" players or trying to drive them away all together. If a new player is damaging the course and not repairing it, they probably are ignorant of rules and etiquette. The solution is to educate them, not exclude them. There are plenty of experienced golfers who seem to be allergic to rakes and sand bottles---if I had my way, I would deal with them more harshly than beginners since they know better. I'm not a big fan of "good golf school for everyone", since I don't think Stewart Cink or Patrick Reed need attend before they play here. But I would make it mandatory for beginners and those that flaunt the rules. The very fact that someone suggests that we make a system that excludes beginners shows that person is far from a great golfer themselves.

End of rant.

I live on a championship course. Some of these people look like beginners and they pay to play on a championship course.People come on my property, hit my house, do not fix divets, and to top it all off, play pretty lousy golf. I watch them do it. There is no delusion as good as self delusion.

Sorry have played with residents who have played for most of their lives, on more than one occasion, watched them trounce though sand traps, dig in hit the ball, and walk out. Never picking up a rake.
If you ask, their response is “gives the staff something to do other than put the pins in the wrong place.”, or that’s why I pay greens fee. Clearly they know golf etiquette, just choose not to follow.

How about “Leave well enough alone”!!

If I play 5-6 times a week, $200/month. Maybe if groceries weren't so expensive...

I live on a championship course as well, and everything you posted is true. I once watched someone take 6 shots to get out of the bunker behind my house, walking the entire length of the bunker, exiting on the far side tripping over a rake on the way out. I couldn't help myself---I ran out there, raked the trap, and yelled "you're welcome" to that clown. No acknowledgement whatsoever. He probably believed he "paid me" to rake his traps for him. This is an example of someone I would send straight to good golf school .

Another unusual thing happened the week prior to Debby. On two occasions there was a group behind us, all men, playing from the nine holes from the yellow tees. It was obvious they lacked some golfing skill, but why pay to play what is essentially an exec course? Nevertheless, they kept up with us and did not back the course up behind them. I do think we'll see more of that in coming weeks with all the course closures.

Point is, you might be a lousy golfer, but you can follow the proper etiquette and keep up with the group ahead

I think that post lacks a frame of reference.

$80 or $100 a month greens fee and I get $10 back? No thanks. $140+ for “trail fees” is more than I want to pay already.
If you call the amenities fees what they are, a parks and recreation property tax, then this place is already inching its way up to Illinois tax rates already.

The associated maintenance costs of keeping the golf courses must constitute the highest portion of the amenities that ALL owners pay every month. Don't you think that it is only fair that non golfers should pay a lesser amount than golfers who enjoy that activity?

Absolutely.

Residents who don't use the pools, should pay less.

Residents who don't play pickleball, shouldn't have to pay for the free pickle balls and the courts.

Residents who go to the Post Office for their mail, shouldn't have to pay for landscaping at the Mail Boxes.

What about people who don't have dogs, being required to pay for all those damn dog parks and poop bags that get used?

I live close to Sumter and never go South and have no intentions of it. Why am I paying for maintenance for all those bridges down there? I've never even been on one.

I'm pretty unhappy that I have to pay the same for trash removal, as the crazy lady across the street, who has 3 bags of trash, twice a week.

Don’t forget your school tax

Again, a nonsense post that ignores the facts. Search this site from last year and you’ll find that a. County Commissioner posted the breakdown of our monthly amenity fees. A whopping $5-7/month goes to executive golf. You see, facts matter

Hah, is that what that plastic, sand filled thing on my golf car is for? I don't play golf so I named it my emergency kitty litter holder.
If we were up north I would have said it was for when you get stuck in the snow.
Seriously, had no idea what it was for. Never would have thought I was supposed to fill a hole in the dirt with sand. Sounds rather counter productive, really.

I just did a quick "back of the envelope" calculation, based on the # of homes, number of exec courses & maintenance per course. I came up with $8/month.

If anyone is really interested in how money gets wasted at the District level, go to one of their budget sessions, when Community Watch is discussed. Management thinks they're Howard Hunter (the SWAT team commander from Hill St. Blues) and we all know the CW staff is much more like the Keystone Cops.

Want to know how many garage doors they can check per minute of driving? They have the information. "17" if I recall correctly.

What to know how many miles and average CW vehicle drives per hour and at what speed? They have it.

Want to know how many cars they wave through a gate, in comparison to how many go through an operating gate? They can tell you.

What to know how many phone calls they have to make, per open garage door, before closure? They've got the #'s.

They have more organizational structure and more nonsense statistics than NYPD. What's worse, they can't wait to explain it, in excruciating detail, to anyone who will listen. I've been to 3 District Budget Meetings. In every instance, I've walked out after listening to the CW people for 10 minutes ... & CW still had over an hour to go.

It’s also winter.

Hey, I got a par on the hole.

Golfers should be charged by their level of complaining.

You didn't know what the bottle of sand was for......now you do.

This is to help your continued education. Below is why sand is used.....

If a divot does not have any soil attached, or if it has shattered into small pieces, it cannot be replaced and expected to heal properly. Filling the divot with divot mix is the best option in these situations. Depending on the course and the grass types, divot mix may be pure sand or it may contain seed to aid in recovery. Regardless of what's in the mix, the way to properly fill a divot is the same: Add mix until it is slightly below the height of the adjacent turf, then smooth the mix and press down with your foot. It is worth taking a few extra seconds to get the level just right. Too little mix will create poor playability and may not allow the divot to heal fully. Too much mix creates playability issues and can damage mowing equipment.