Yet another RB thread (yuk)
 

On all the hundreds of RB threads over the years on TOTV, many blamed so-called "snowbirds" for most of the bonehead driving there. A popular rebuttal is "We're from Massachusetts, we know how to drive roundabouts". Having just returned from Mass., I can assure you, YOU DO NOT!!!! No different there than here, maybe even worse.

The very first Roundabout was installed in MA, about 10-15 years ago [Massachusetts installed it's first roundabout, 10-15 years ago]. Up until then, we were one of the only states to have "Rotaries", which is a completely different animal and you drive them, entirely differently. (A "Rotary" doesn't have solid marked lanes, the ROW is different and it's basically a free for all.)

Folks from MA who tell you they know about driving in Roundabouts, don't know what they're talking about. We have very few of them and no one really has a clue how to manage one, other than Villagers who come to visit.

In Connecticut, there's a roundabout (previously known as a "traffic circle" but never a "rotary") at the intersection of 80 and 81, in the Killingworth area. It's been there for longer than my 63 years, and in 1981 it was rebuilt and updated. The difference between it and the ones down here, is that it's all ONE LANE going in, through, and out. Everyone enters into the same singular lane from their prospective roads, travels in a counterclockwise direction until they're ready to exit, and then they exit out from that lane, to a single lane at the other end of the exit.

It's still a roundabout, or traffic circle if you prefer. But it's much easier to navigate because you never have to be "that newcomer" who isn't sure of where he needs to go, and ends up missing his exit and shifting into another lane while in the middle of the circle, thus creating risk of death for everyone else.

All he needs to do is continue around until that exit shows up again and hang a right out of the circle. He won't ever cut anyone off.

But there are plenty of 2 lane RBs in Mass. as well. One lane is not the solution, having DRVING SKILLS is.

Never seen a roundabout in Massachusetts except 1 that is only 1 lane. I’ve been here 55 years. The one I have seen is actually a rotary but they put a sign calling it a roundabout. But as mentioned I’ve never seen one with 2 marked lanes.

Obviously a flawed article. In one sentence it says rotaries and roundabouts are the same and in another say Mass DOT is switching from one to the other. Makes no sense. But as I said, never seen a marked lane roundabout in Massachusetts. I still live here full time. Wiki has no pics of a roundabout in Massachusetts.

From the wikipedia article, this below is listed as a "roundabout". It is clearly a rotary.

https://i.imgur.com/KJo7uJDl.jpg

I see several roads meeting at a circle. Call it a roundabout, traffic circle, rotary, or that thing I don't want to acknowledge but there are many of them in MA.

Wiki doesn't do pics, they do words and links. However, if you take those words and paste them into Google maps then you get pics like the above... many of them.

Then our differences are just semantics. I consider a roundabout like what we see in Florida, with marked lanes and the requirement to yield to those in the roundabout. Rotaries are similar and you yield if you have to, but you can also merge. Rotaries are larger than roundabout and a bit more of a free-for-all.

There is actually 1 spot near me that is small, 1 lane and I guess I would consider it a roundabout. In true Massachusetts fashion, it is so poorly designed that semi trucks go over the raised center circle because they can't navigate the curve.

This is it here. What I consider different is the pic in my last post is a free-for-all, room for multiple lanes but nothing marked. It's like Chevy Chase looking at Big Ben in European Vacation. The pic below is only 1 lane so can't go nuts. My point overall is that neither of these would teach Massachusetts drivers the rules of a Villages Roundabout, with lanes and posted rules.

https://i.imgur.com/mmsBbbel.png

Its the right of way ambiguity that causes most of the problems, not lack of driving skill, or wrong-headed learning in Massachusetts.

At any exit the inner lane car could be getting off or going around, as could the outer lane car. The convention that one take the outer lane to go 1/4 or 1/2 way around and the inner lane to go 1/2 or 3/4 way around does not resolve this conflict. Nor do any of the posted driving rules.

And both cars are in the Roundabout.

This conflict would be greatly reduced if people used there directionals, but few do.

Survival makes one quickly learn that if you are in the outer lane you always assume the inner lane is getting off and yield. if fact most learn to not even enter the rotary if there is a car in the inner lane, because he is very likely to get off in front of you at your first exit (you are going to your second exit) and which he is fully entitled to do. But that is most of the few accidents that I have seen....inner lane getting off, outer lane going around.

There has been a roundabout aka traffic circle in downtown Long Beach, CA since at least 1987. Math puts that at 38 years ago - FAR preceding your "first roundabout was installed in MA, about 10-15 years ago." In fact, well over twice as old as that posited by you. Not sure from where your intel derives.

A quick check of the google machine indicates the Long Beach traffic circle was built in 1932. What's that, about 93 years old?

Long Beach's traffic circle is where PCH (no, not OBT) meets the Lakewood Blvd and Los Coyotes Diagonal. If you need to google map it, simply look for Porsche of Long Beach.

As has been explained numerous times, there is no ambiguity. If the signs are followed, if the rules are followed, if (apparently not-so) common sense is followed then there is no problem.

The right/outer lane enters the RB and either turns right or goes straight, just as it would at the signalized intersection at Morse and 44.

The left/inner lane enters the RB and either goes straight or turns LEFT, just as it would at the signalized intersection at Morse and 44.

If there is a car already in the RB and approaching where you are about to enter then you yield, just as you would at the signalized intersection at Morse and 44.

If the right/outer lane continues to go around then it is making a left hand turn which is improper and dangerous, just as it would be at the signalized intersection at Morse and 44.

If the left/inner lane exits at the first exit then it is making a right hand turn which is improper and dangerous, just as it would be at the signalized intersection at Morse and 44.

It really is that simple.

You are correct and there is a mistake I made once and only once. I assumed if the right/outer lane was vacant, that I could enter the roundabout. I didn’t think there would be conflict with a car on the inner lane. That was my mistake because that car was exiting at his 2nd or 3rd turn correctly but I was now blocking him because I was going to my second exit. I won’t make that error again.

What does California have to do with Massachusetts?

Whether you call it a roundabout or a rotary, they still don't know how to drive in one.

I was wondering the same thing. I think they're about 3200 miles apart?

I have travelled the roundabout in Long Beach, though. Bought a 914 from the Porsche dealer in 1974.

(GF was going to school in Long Beach. , Christie Brinkley was in the dorm room next to her. Her BF drove a Toyota 2000GT, one of only 350 or so imported into the USA. Probably worth upwards of $2.5M these days. My GF's roommate was dating Bill Withers. We even got to spend time on John Wayne's boat, the Wild Goose. Thinking about the Long Beach Rotary brings back memories of my misspent youth!)

Aggressive driving rules the day in MA rotaries

In our northern neck of the woods, up in western MA, they have gone roundabout happy over the last few years. Speed humps (very wide and more gentle speed bumps) in residential neighborhoods and roundabouts have become the new standard. I most definitely wouldn’t call it an upgrade, but apparently the powers that be, who design the traffic flow, think it improves things…. I take offense to being referred to as “they”, who still don’t know how to drive in one. There are crappy drivers everywhere, but that doesn’t necessarily shoehorn anyone into a broad generalization that someone is a crappy driver regardless of where they are from, or where they are currently driving.

Mass Highway made a decision about 10-15 years ago, that roundabout were safer and improved traffic flow and their intent was to eliminate all "rotaries" on state roads.

The famous Concord Rotary on Rt. 2 was changed to a roundabout a few years ago. Traveling that rotary 10 times a day for 40 years, I've had my share of accidents, right there in front of the old Concord Prison. I have to admit, the new roundabout works way better.

On another front, MHD (now MA DOT) had been battling the Town of Littleton for years. They wanted to replace the rotary with a roundabout and the town and local business owners fought it, tooth and nail.

Just that So Cal drivers have been dealing with "round intersections with something in the center that you have to go around " longer then Messychoochits. 😉 That's all.

You can thank all the good drivers that you are still alive.

You are from the busy part of the state. Where we come from in Western MA, two roads that intersect, sometimes with 4 way stop signs, are being turned into roundabouts. I am familiar with the Concord Rotary on Rt. 2, from back in the day in the 1980’s when I lived in Watertown and commuted into the back bay. I took Rt. 2 to Western MA just about every weekend to get out of the rat race of the city and enjoy some open space and fresh air.

True! Most of the shaved apes have no more civility or ability than their chimp counterparts at grasping the subtle concept of sharing the road and working with others to ensure safe passage one and all.

Yes. It is. But, look around. Are you really surprised that most folks don't seem to get it. Most folks think they deserve to be first and rules are for others.

Of course, you are right, but where's the fun in that? So much more fun and exciting to be a self indulgent butthead by scaring the "chit" out out of everyone and put lives in jeopardy. (Pardon my sarcasm)

MASS girl here
 

Please do not attack the Massachusetts drivers. No one knows how to drive in a roundabout here… People switch lanes constantly. No one uses a directional and you have no idea where they’re going. Add into account the age of the drivers and the number of people that should not even be on the road and the driving around here is just disastrous..

Trust me, you don't want to go back to Watertown and navigate the revamped Watertown Rotary. Worst one in the state in my opinion. I worked on Arsenal St. in the 70's. 1st golf tournament I ever choked away the win, was the Lanno's Open (Italian restaurant, that was off the square for many years). Ate way too much lamb shish k'bob at Demo's, on Mt. Auburn, right outside the square.

I think some people may have misunderstood. I am not "attacking" Massachusetts drivers. I am rebutting those, who on prior threads, have stated that Massachusetts drivers "know how to drive in RBs". Clearly, based on eyewitness experience, some do not. Therefore, it is the blanket statement of "Massachusetts drivers know how to drive in RBs" that I have "attacked".

Not sure what the poster was talking about when they stated that we have rotaries and other states have roundabouts because rotaries don’t have solid lines. Our roundabouts have solid white lines on quite a few, and the handicapped drivers that drive them cross the solid white lines to continue driving wrong in the roundabout. For example, go east on meggison from Hawkins toward Morse and the Morse roundabout has a solid white line so anybody in the right lane of the roundabout has to continue going east on meggison but you will see that cars in the right lane cross the solid white line to go north on Morse. There are many other “roundabouts” in the southern area that have solid white lines.
But, every sign going into any roundabout is the same no matter where it’s at or what the round circle is called:
Right lane can’t take a 2nd left, the left lane can’t make a 1st right. The left lane is the ‘only’ lane that can turn left after the 2nd right or go completely around the circle if needed. The solid white lines in some roundabouts keep the right lane right at the 1st exit whereas normally the right lane can take the 2nd exit, like the Morse / Meggison roundabout. You are taught when you are 16 never to cross a solid white line no matter where it’s at

Right hand lane is turn right or straight on
There is no right, so straght on is only option.
If you wanted third exit, you should have entered roundabout into left hand lane.
I see nothing conflicting,

I grew up in Jersey and we had roundabouts years ago and never had a problem navigating them.

Signs tell the drivers how to drive the roundabouts. Seems the problem is lack of desire or ability to follow instructions.

I am a snowbird and was behind a woman with Florida plates, we were both in a roundabout, she almost came to a complete when trying to exit it.

Circles are easy.

Inside has right of way over outside.
Lane 1 has right of way over lane 2, and lane 2 has right of way over outside the circle. Those without right of way must yield.
Solid white cannot be crossed dashed can be.
Done.

There are even pictures on the way in, saying which exists are for which lanes.
Frogs and snowbirds both seem to have issues understanding this. Frogs blame snowbirds for their inability to understand.

I have a card from the American Autoduelist Association that says "Drive Offensively, the life you save may be your own".

:)

Hardly
 

A mammoth sized roundabout called Tallmage Circle in Tallmage, Ohio (Early 1800s) was the first traffic circle idea that came into fruition. It was a nightmare for new drivers when I was a kid and the driver’s license bureau made sure you paid it a visit before you did your parallel parking deal. Loved the area though, the Tallmage Buffet was my stop.

Some of the Roundabouts have a two lane exit for the first exit, meaning both lanes can exit there.

No one has to give way to anyone in the roundabout, they are designed for continuous flow.
If you have to stop or give way in the roundabout, someone is in the wrong lane.
Entering the roundabout, give way to all lanes to your left, and only enter when both lanes are clear.
Done.

In Maine it’s a Rotary, or Rotary Traffic.

For those who feel challenged by the roundabouts here in The Villages, try driving in France. In France, the laws are a little different, in that cars entering a roundabout have the right of way over vehicles already in the roundabout. Also, for a real adventure, try your hand at the one at the Arc de Triomphe, where 12 roads feed into and out of the roundabout!