Significant financial distress
 

The words used by the person in put in charge of villages health system. He said they need to borrow 24 million to sustain operations, which I assume to pay employees and leases on 10 buildings. By his comments the only way out of this situation is to be taken over by Humana, but I assume the bankruptcy judge would have to approve this. Still not clear on the overbilling. Does that mean Medicare was over billed but the money was never actually paid. Going back as long as it has, I would think they received some of that $350 billion.

In my opinion any corporation that files bankruptcy should be made to use their personal finances to pay off as much debt as possible before stiffing their creditors, there should be no such thing as Corporate Veil, it's simply a legal way to steal from creditors most of which, in most cases, are small privately owned companies or individuals. The bankruptcy laws should be gone over and re-written to protect creditors not just debtors.

Overbilling seems like a criminal operation to me.
Bankruptcy would allow them to escape civil liabilities.
Criminal liabilities are not so easy to avoid.

Since some/much/all the money received paid employees , does this mean you believe every employee should have to help pay off the debt?

That's ridiculous, the overpayment was not specifically tagged for the wages of employees. Think PROFIT and how that profit was spent!:ohdear:

Wants to go back to the days of debtor’s prisons for civil debts

Debtors' prison - Wikipedia

What did the bankruptcy filing specifically tag as paying?

The overpayment was specifically tagged? As what?

Profit is income less expenses. The overpayment went to creditors and employees first and whatever was leftover went to profit. But where did profit go? Is there a door somewhere labeled “profit” with a pile of cash behind it? No.

I think I might understand what the poster was getting at but any attempt to claw back (that’s the term these days, right?) the money out of anyone’s wallet is going to get messy.

Bankruptcy
 

The person in charge, Neil Luria, is concerned that with 60,000 patients, didn’t know it was that big, with Oct. coming up when you can change plans, how many will stay with the villages. I doubt this will be settled by then. With Humana scheduled to take over, some people are not huge Humana fans.

Dam, they must have already blown through the $39 million in DIP financing approved by the bankruptcy judge just over two weeks ago? Not surprising, but also not good. TVH stated in the latest court filing that more money is needed to sustain operations, and further stated that the only way to realistically avoid a shutdown is for the court to immediately allow TVH to proceed with the proposed sale to Humana’s Centerwell. This obviously cries of a desperate and dire situation and clearly highlights the bigger picture of available Health Care Service for the future of the rapidly growing senior population in the entire area. TVH is trying everything possible to rapidly fight their way out of a hornets nest filled with financial risk, liabilities, and the associated public relations disaster. There doesn’t appear to be any way this is going to turn out positive for Homeowners who have invested a significant chunk of their retirement portfolio in the Villages, ouch!

I expect that Villages Health received most, maybe all, of the $351 million. That also means that Medicare has stopped sending monthly payments to Villages Health, and applying the monthly funds towards the debt. So, Villages Health has almost no income. That's why they need the loan to sustain operations.

No what I mean is that the owners of the corporation should use their personal assets to payoff debts of their corporation.

Overbilling is a "criminal operation"????

There have been posts that indicate a complete lack of understanding of the situation, but this one has taken over first place.

Equally ridiculous. I own stock in General Motors. As a part owner, if GM goes bankrupt, I should be forced to use my retirement funds to pay off their debts??? That idea would go over like a lead balloon.

Who are "they"? The stockholders? For publicly traded corporations that is you and I. I assume you don't want that. So then I guess we just wont allow privately held corporations any more. Quite a few drawbacks to that.

This year's open enrollment period will be interesting. Do you want to sign up for a plan in which you really don't know what is happening to the doctors in the plan?

It would be nice if they had an open forum to explain what is going on and to reassure patients that TVH will be there in 2026. But I doubt they will start being open and transparent now.

And some are not Hugh UHC fans either.

More useless undefined terms. File bankruptcy and move on. It happens thousands of times a day

Your reply makes no sense at all.

Excuse me, add the words "privately held corporations"

I'm referring to privately held corporations that file and end up coming out smelling like a rose while all of their creditors suffer.

Still silly. What you are suggesting then is an uneven playing field between corporations traded on public stock exchanges vs those not traded on those exchanges. Mega corporations don't need any additional advantages.

There are no owners of a corporation. A corporation is a separate and distinct taxable entity. That is why people form a corporation in the first place. If you eliminate the corporate veil, no one would ever form a corporation.

Still ridiculous. Under those terms, all venture capitalism would come to a grinding halt---no new factories, no new construction, no new ideas---just unlimited liability for anyone still willing to invest.

Most privately held corporations are small businesses (less the 500 employees). There are some exceptions, Mars, Publix, and Cargill come to mind, but most are small. Often times the personal assets of the owners in those small companies are pledged against corporate debt.

In the case of Villages Health, its not even a corporation it an LLC. Now if you want to talk LLCs I think there is a argument to be made concerning assets of owners. There the owners are getting the benefit of liability protection, but without incurring the cost of double taxation, and with lower cost of administration. That seems like too good a deal.

Of course they would as there are tax advantages in having a corporation.

Yeah, everyone knows what profit is on the ledger. Money leftover after the basic, Medicare/Insurance earned income has been applied to pay expenses, including salaries. Any profit snagged over the actual costs and payments would be utilized in other capacities. That door labeled profit would be determined in a hurry with a decent audit and total review of how money was spent after the basic cost of doing business was determined.

So, do we all start looking for new doctors?

To make matters worse United Healthcare has filed an objections over the sale. They feel their contracture obligation should have put them first on the list to buy..plus they believe they are the largest creditor.

So yes it is time to look for alternative health care

I’m not very bright but I could not navigate the medicare/insurance business with all the constant changes every year. I’m surprised there are not more instances like the VHC all over the country.

i agree. Too many hanging judges in the world. Mistakes are not crimes. If it can be saved, do so, if not, replace with better options. Let the courts decide the merits later. Patients need help not turmoil

But didn't you kind of already use your own retirement funds to pay off their debits? If you bought 100 shares of stock at $300--and the stock craters to $2 per share....They used $29,800 of *your* money to pay off their debts.

I understand publicly traded companies may be a bit different-stockholders enjoy the profits and suffer the losses. A private company the owner (be it one person or a family trust) enjoys *all* the profits.

If the Suleiman family (a private company) decides to experiment and go "outside the bubble" and they purchase land beyond Eastport--build (and finance) a new restaurant--and the restaurant goes bust because of their unlucky decision; should we still expect the family to make good on payments to builder, bank, suppliers, contractors, and employees?

Or can they just say "Sorry-soft opening. We are declaring bankruptcy for *that* restaurant." Our would we expect them to step up and do the right thing and use family money to pay off their debt?

It would be opportune to borrow money and keep just the profits but declare bankruptcy anytime you have losses.

I wish Vegas casinos operated like that...LOL

Totally depends on whether they started a separate corporation for their new restaurant. I am, however, at a loss to understand how putting up personal assets for a business venture is "doing the right thing". If it worked that way, no one would ever open a new restaurant or other business. Would you??????

Audit
 

An independent audit of the corporation needs to be done and those receiving income through IRS filings need to be tagged for paying off the bills of this bankruptcy filing.

We know for sure Humana is doing an audit before spending their money and closing. They will identify the leaks and any misspent funds.

Tvh
 

What will happen to those who were grandfathered into TVH without signing up for an advantage plan. My husband was over 65 when TVH switched to the advantage plan, so he was allowed to stay in the system with std Medicare and Tricare.

Given the complexity and ambiguities coding a patient, is it likely most any medical facility would have similar audit results under the same level of scrutiny?

All I know is that my doctor has already “retired “

They were overpaid that money based on claims that they submitted. It will be interesting to see if this was up coding, services not rendered, falsification of medical conditions for higher payments, etc. United Healthcare seems to be holding the sale which is definitely an issue. Not sure as to who is lending them $24 million dollars, as how can that be repaid? Also, are they even getting money from Medicare at this point given the huge overpayment; what’s going to happen when vendors who haven’t been paid stop servicing them; and what happens when they ultimately go through the $24 million? Is there a chance that the clinics will end up having to shutdown for some period of time?

Please explain why you say there are no owners of a corporation. Who are the shareholders if not the owners?

Great question.

It would be nice if the owner gave us some answers.