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Degenerative diseases of the elderly: Are they all genetic?
What must it be like to think that everything is genetic? I would liken it to being lost, perhaps adrift on a life-raft in the middle of the ocean. In which case, your continued well-being and your very existence would depend mostly on luck.
Therefore, if you think you have "bad" genes you might reason that there's no point in trying to live a healthy lifestyle. What good would it do? And if you think you have "good" genes you might come to the same conclusion: Why bother depriving yourself of all the pleasures of your favorite "comfort foods" when you fully expect your genes to provide good health and longevity? It's an outlook that sets one free of all responsibility. I believe that genes are context-sensitive and, for the most part, we provide the context. My belief is backed up by the following two books: 1) "The Dependent Gene", by David S. Moore, Ph.D. 2) "The Biology of Belief", by Bruce H. Lipton. Ph.D. If you believe everything (for the purposes of this thread we're talking about degenerative diseases of the elderly) is genetic, what source(s) do you have to back up your belief? (The source should be something that we can check; we can't check your family history.) Have fun. :) |
I think you've started on a mistaken premise: that people believe "everything" is genetic regarding diseases.
From all the many discussions here about diet/nutrition being "everything" to prevention of dreaded disease, it has been said many times in all honesty that inherited genetics can--and do--often over-ride the best of nutritional and healthy lifestyle habits. And nobody has said to avoid improving one's lifestyle/eating habits because their genes will out-gun them anyway. Just as genetics is not "everything" to disease acquisition or not, neither is dietary intake and exercise "everything" to preventing it. |
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Rather than make it something between me and the poster(s) I thought I would open it up to all those who might be interested. |
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How long would that be? How much longer would we live if we ate your diet? How much longer would you live if you saw a doctor every three months and did everything he said to do? How much longer would we live if we lived in an optimal situation and didn't have money issues or kids who worried us? Who really knows? |
I disagree, you can offset the effects of many genetics thru diet.
I would often hear oh yea everybody on that side of the family has heart problems, they died young. The genetics of our parents unfortunately did not enjoy the benefits of today's medical miracles, and some of us will live long enough to enjoy the benefits of tomorrows medical break through. It is a fact that vegetarians live on average up to 10 years longer and vegans up to 15 years. ex. atherosclerosis can be reversed as well as type II diabetes with diet. |
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"a large study by Loma Linda University. This phenomenal fact is echoed in multiple huge studies. In fact, the findings on vegetarian and vegan longevity are confirmed by the world’s largest population study on diet and health ever done. The comprehensive China Health Project study found that people who eat the least amount of fat and animal products have the lowest risks of cancer, heart attack and other chronic degenerative diseases.
Plus, a British study that tracked 6,000 vegetarians and 5,000 meat eaters for 12 years found that vegetarians were 40 percent less likely to die from cancer during that time and 20 percent less likely to die from other diseases. So much for the old-fashioned notion that we need meat to be healthy. Fact is, the opposite is true. If the bonanza of spending many more years enjoying life with loved ones isn’t enough to leave animals off the dinner plate" As to the second part of your question, with the changes we have have experienced personally, it appears not a life long issue IMO. |
I would be interested in the actual references so I could read the study. I'm a vegetarian - not vegan; mostly because I never really liked the taste of meat. I was raised on a farm and visited the slaughterhouse a few times with my dad - that, over time, cured me from wanting to eat meat. However, I do have a lot of relatives who were meat eaters and they lived very long and active lives. So, again, I'd like to read the studies you cite. If one does choose to leave all meat out of their diet, they need to be careful to get the protein and other nutirents, generally provided by meat, from another source.
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The only supplement that may be needed is B12 U can simply Google those studies |
I guess we read differnt studies :)
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I've never heard before that Vegans live up to 15 years longer than the rest of us. |
Yes, Barefoot, very confusing. That's why I like to read the studies and even then it's hard to know their true value to the overall "body of knowledge". I look for any obvious bias of the researchers and sometimes it's hard to know unless you know who funded the study. All studies have limitations and the researchers are supposed to clearly state limitations. Also, I look to see if the study has been replicated and, if so, who did it and what were their findings...
This all is reason why I said in another thread a while back that moderation in life is probably the best approach to take. And, yes, I know someone will want to highlight the fact that my definition of moderation may be different to someone elses - so very true. For me, I've tried to decide how I want to live day to day in order to enjoy life and, perhaps in the process, extend it continuing to be healthy, and do the study to learn best how to do that. |
Jimbo.
Are you referring to the study by Loma Linda on the effect of a vegetarian diet and increased exercise on diabetes in the black population of U.S. and Canada? I don't know of another one on the vegetarian diet from that institution. They (Loma Linda) are currently studying the vegetarian diet and it's effect on small children. I am not as up on things as I used to be so I very well could be wrong.. |
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It's not in the eye of the beholder. Choose what's better for your health: 1) a small baked potato or a serving of potato chips/french fries? 2) a small apple or a serving of apple pie? 3) a high fiber diet or a low fiber diet? 4) a diet high in saturated fat or a diet with a small amount of good fat? 5) a diet high in animal protein and low in vegetables or a diet high in vegetables and low in animal protein? (A vegan diet is all the better.) 6) a diet with fruit for dessert and/or snacks, or a diet with processed desserts like ice cream or cookies. 7) a diet that calls for lots of processed foods like pizza, or a diet that eliminates processed foods. Exactly what is it that you find confusing? |
Just read The China study, no one was influencing that one nor has the author had any ulterior motives to make money or sell products.
That is the most comprehensive study that I know of and all the top doctors in the field are on board with it's finding. We (my wife and myself have read a lot on this subject, she jokes and says I've reached the end of diet info on Google. IMO moderation is an excuse for lack of will power in certain individuals. A drop of gas on fire...........basically what is happening is dopamine in the brain are released and your body develops a need for more and more sugars and processed food to satisfy that need. That craving can be broken in about a month or two. If you have medical issues or prefer to avoid them in the future and enjoy your children and grandchildren aka live longer/healthier without tons of meds and their side effects -- don't eat meat or processed food. You can't say you should have if you're looking at the wrong side of the grass! . |
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I have observed people who were lucky to live a long life but suffered terribly during the last 10 to 15 years. And often it was needless. And of course there are people who live short lives and suffer at the end with cancer etc.. I don't understand the reasoning behind not eating the best diet because a long life is not guaranteed. |
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It can be selfish indeed, however, it can be considered selfish in the other direction, too. One trying to do what is considered a way to potentially prolong life, or one allowing another to live in a fashion that makes that individual happy. Sometimes we just have to accept others the way they are. |
You guys R funny, if you don't eat dead animals and processed food you can't be happy. :confused:
Is that what you're saying? |
Boy Howdy.
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Please explain why not.
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Some might not like veggies, fruits, particular grains. The taste, texture, feel in the mouth is something they can't tolerate. Some may be born with particular food likes and dislikes. A good example for me is my son. From the day he started ingesting foods, he would absolutely NOT eat particular veggies, fruits, grains and those dislikes continue. At this point, he's 41, an executive chef, a wonderful husband, father of two children who enjoy a wide variety of fruits and veggies, and he still eats a rather limited variety of veggies/fruit.
Remember, one can take a horse to water, but can't make that horse drink. People will change if they want to, and then, if they don't suffer so to speak. |
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Does not seem to me that the vegan/vegetarian posters are trying to win converts as much as they are trying to prove they are smarter than others, more informed, and more enlightened. If you really are interested in winning over people to your point of view you might try to be somewhat less condescending and insulting.
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Right on
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Sorry guys, not my intent. :shrug:
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A topic for a bit of research for those who might be curious: "Selective Eating Disorder". Here's a glimpse: Selective eating disorder - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia That's me almost to a "T" only I don't have any sort of the 'social stigma' associated with it. It's always a topic of much humor and joking around with people who know me. My mom never made me eat things I didn't care for when I was little thus I wasn't exposed to lots of different foods. Very very few fruits, same with vegetables, no salads (never had one in my life and don't plan to), no pies (maybe chocolate would be o.k.).......it's a lot about how some foods taste but actually more to their consistency. If it's plain, bland, etc., I'm probably o.k. with it. If it's something sweet, I'm there! My sister, one grade ahead of me in school thus we were raised in exactly the same environment.........she'll eat anything! Sandy, as well, will eat ANYTHING........but liver. Not trying to stoke a debate of any sort - just tossing in my $.0295 worth......about how some people are just wired a bit different than others. Bill :) |
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But most of the time life doesn't end neat, clean and quick. Therefore, it seems a bit short sighted, in my opinion. More often than not I think life ends agonizingly slow, with a great deal of suffering. I've had two friends, one with cancer and one with a stroke, both of whom said to me, "I don't know why I can't die"! Obviously things did not go as they had planned. They thought they would just die and didn't imagine how long and drawn out the suffering would be. It's fairly common knowledge (I've read this many times) that people who live long healthy lives usually die quickly and easily. Of course it's not something that everyone can do; I realize that. But that would be my goal. An example of that: A man got a big write up in the daily Sun. He was going to celebrate his 100th birthday. There would be a party at KFC and everyone was invited. So I went. Meeting a 100 year old person was a first for me and I enjoyed the whole experience. About 4 years later I bumped into him at the Golden Corral. On his way to the front door he tripped and fell face first onto the parking lot. No big deal; he just got up like nothing had happened. I kept track of him by looking for his name in the phone book. Every year his name was in the book. Finally, this year he was to be 109 in July. But shortly before his birthday I heard a doctor on the radio say that his 109 year old patient had died. It turned out to be the man I knew. The doctor said the man (his patient) was sitting in his living room and looked like he had just fallen asleep. And the amazing thing: The doctor said he never had anything wrong with him. His heart just stopped. This happens a lot to centenarians. |
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It may seem shortsighted to you, but people are people, some are more in tune with the here and now, others are happier when they realize just what they may face, and plan ahead to minimize future suffering if they feel there is a way. People are always taking risks, making an assumption that if they die, well, they die. They forget that they might NOT die and face long years of suffering. That's how people are. Everyone is unique, everyone sees the world differently. We all have individual attitudes about how to live and enjoy. The thought of dying quickly or slowly doesn't always come to mind....some just live. When death comes, it will come and if suffering is a part of it, well, then it is. |
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I have several thoughts on this subject. I think degenerative diseases happen for a variety of reasons. One, is folks are living longer than they did years ago. Two, sometimes it's a genetic thing. Three, we're all growing older and this is just another thing that is one of the symptoms of that.
I have a number of degenerative issues....can't blame the relatives unless I have a recessive gene somewhere. All I know is that we're not going to get out of this life, alive!! With this...I don't think it's up to the individual to decide when the "end" is to happen. But as someone else said, this is another subject altogether and will deal with the spiritual philosophies of folks. I think it's best left alone........ |
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Reminds me of the couple
who lived a long life eating really healthy, thanks to the wife's efforts to do so. They died in a car accident (or maybe it was a golf cart) and when they got to heaven they are told that anything they want is free for the asking, including great golf courses and long buffets. The husband turns to the wife and says " You and all those healthy foods. If I hadn't listened I could have been here sooner!"
LW888 |
The science does not seem to be there yet on the vegan diet.
The Jury Is Still Out - Room for Debate - NYTimes.com
I wonder if the life expectancy of people in areas where meat is a luxury have had longer life expectancies than people in areas where meat is much more affordable?? |
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Just keep in mind that is only an opinion of a blogger not a doctor that is in the field of nutrition.
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