If you were a Zimmerman juror....
 

Would the prosecution REPEATEDLY mentioning expletives, guide you to a second degree murder conviction? This seems so obvious to me, should never have made it to this circus!

Courting the jury.
 

Do not know what it is with the Prosecution in recent Florida very public cases such as Zimmerman's and Casey Anthony's. They do not seem to know how to court a jury.

I remember my law school days when I played a Computer Assisted Instructor program on evidence. You were supposedly to be very mindful of testing the jury's patience with too many objections and the like. Being the gentleman was very important. The defense is doing a much better job.

Let it rest....
 

In my opinion, both sides need to rest. It's time for the closing arguments. There is nothing anyone can say that would make me change my mind as a junior. Based on the evidence, I don't know how anyone could convict GZ of murder 2.

I agree. Time for closing arguments. I think the jury will acquit.

My initial impression would be that I do not like the judge. I also do not like Atty West. I do believe O'Mara is doing an excellent job of presenting.
Florida Law places this case on a dichotomy based on one word "reasonable". If "reasonable" applies to George Zimmerman's belief that he was defending himself then as a juror I have to let him go. If not then he will be found guilty as charged.

There are some reasons for appeals which I believe should have been allowed.

On a personal level I have gotten gun shy about predictions given results from earlier celebrity trials. What is predictable is that if Zimmerman is acquitted be ready for marches throughout the country.

It seems Florida law is somewhat unique in this regard. Paul H. Robinson: Why the Zimmerman Verdict Will Be All or Nothing - WSJ.com

Well, although I got the text when I used a search engine the link did not work for me when I tested it. Sorry. Just type in wsj Zimmerman trial and you should be able to access it if you are interested.

Of course there was no intent of malice. I call all of my friends a-holes!

Evidence, or lack thereof, has nothing to do with whether people think GZ is guilty or innocent. :doh:

If I were on the jury or a resident of Sanford I would be making plans for a "vacation".

From a personal perspective Zimmerman believing Martin was either scouting the neighborhood for future break-in or ready for a break-in wasn't about to lose Martin. Unfortunately Martin reverse roles and became the aggressor and in doing so Zimmerman found he bit more off than he could chew. Left to defend himself well.............

Does anyone really know what was in Zimmerman's heart? Based on what I hear and see as evidence it favors Zimmerman's account.

I also believe the courts should stop televising these cases.

I forsee a locked jury, ultimately the prosecution will not seek another trial. Zimmerman will then be tried in civil court where the burden of proof is much less.

With Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson raising funds to pay the attorney.

Based on what?

the topic is if you were a juror...but I'm wondering if YOU were, how would you answer the question...

I would vote NOT GUILTY

My vote, not guilty!

I presume the standard is that the jury has to believe without a reasonable doubt that Zimmerman was NOT acting in self defense. After watching the trial, I would say that beyond reasonable doubt he WAS acting in self defense. I also believe that should the jurors vote on emotion rather than fact and vote some sort of guilty verdict, that the verdict will be overturned on appeal.

I actually do not know the answer here for sure, but when a person is convicted of a felony and their lawyer files an appeal, doesn't the convicted person go to prison until the appeal is heard and that usually takes a couple of years? I don't think the convicted person is allowed to be free on bond until the appeal is heard.

As for the jury hearing Zimmerman describe on the phone the types of people that always get away with it - I have my opinion that he is not a decent guy - but rather a bully with a built up ego and nothing physical to back it up - so he packs a gun wherever he goes.

Guilty!

I don't think that makes him a murder. I guess my understanding of "beyond a reasonable doubt' differs from yours.

Not Guilty!

1. This case should have never gone to trial and probably would not have if it wasn't for the media.
2. These types of cases should not be televised. It allows the zealots from both sides to be used by the media to breed more trouble.
3. This case was about two knuckleheads getting together and just allowed things to go bad.
4. The president should have never put his two cents into this.
5. The money Florida has wasted on this could have been spent on much better things.

What you say may be true. He may not be a decent guy and might have some off the wall opinions, but that is no reason to find him guilty. The issue is simply was he defending himself when he shot Martin or not.

I haven't seen anything from the trial to make me think he is not a decent guy. In fact, everyone who knows him, both black and white, say he's a very nice guy. I think it was his "nice guy" that did him in - he was so concerned about what was becoming of his neighborhood that he did something a bit foolish by getting out of the car, thinking that if he can keep track of where Martin was, he would help the police find him.

However, the notion that he "chased Martin down" is completely foolish and unsupported by any testimony. The last he saw Martin he was going down the "T". Yet, the confrontation began AT the "T" - so clearly he did not pursue him down the "T".

Now, on the other hand, Martin was likely not so nice. I found it very interesting that the judge wouldn't allow text messages from his phone which talked about his fighting to be put in evidence. And, no, I don't think just because someone is "not nice" that they desreved to die. However, his attack on Zimmerman left Zimmerman with no choice.

Going back to the original question, the use of language would be irrelevant to me. I think the final verdict will be determined by the jury instructions. I don't know Florida law enough to determine what actions/thoughts are needed to claim self-defense. As a juror, I would wonder why stand your ground is not being used as a defense since it seems that this law has a lesser burden of proof (even though I would know that I'm not to consider things not put into evidence, but the stand your ground law has been mentioned throughout the trial). I'd be wondering what it is that Zimmerman is hiding -- was there justification for Martin's action?

All in all, I'm very grateful that I'm not on this jury. I think that given the basic law of self-defense (and I'm assuming for the time being that Florida follows the basic elements) I'd have to find Zimmerman not guilty but I wouldn't be happy about it. I do believe that Zimmerman got the exact outcome he wanted. He did follow Martin just enough to provoke Martin to react, which gave Zimmerman an excuse to pull out his gun and use it. At the time, he thought he was protecting his neighborhood from another bad guy who would just get away whatever. Instead, he shot a kid who had gone to the store and was returning home -- that's the only thing he didn't expect (even though Martin wasn't exactly a model kid, so I'm sure Zimmerman feels some justification for the final outcome).

I don't like either of these characters but one of them might have grown up to become an upstanding citizen but, for now, there's little question that he was a punk by our definitions. The other one was a cop wannabe who got to do what few police officers ever do except in practice -- fire his gun to stop a "bad guy."

My speculation, and it is purely that, is Zimmerman will be convicted of manslaughter - not second degree murder. Yes, the judge's instructions to the jury will be pivotal.

Manslaughter!

It is clearly self defense. Zimmerman should sue the race baiters and the mainstream media for libel, slander, violating his civil rights and ruining his life.

The person getting sued will be Zimmerman. Don't forget that OJ had a huge civil suit on him after being found not guilty of killing his wife and waiter.

Of course, there was no proof who killed them. Here we all know who the killer was! Zimmerman!

Not guilty.

As strange as it may sound, killing someone is not necessarily a crime and not necessarily grounds for a successful civil suit. Just because you kill someone it's not necessarily the fact that you took away his civil rights.

The OJ case was a bit different. I think that most reasonable people feel that the evidence against OJ was overwhelming and that the jury was biased. OJ could not be claiming self defense or any other type of justified homicide. If OJ had admitted killing his victims, it would have been a case of first degree murder.

The character witnesses for Zimmerman would of course say he is a nice guy. Don't forget that one of his daily co-workers (a woman) said George typically referred to a lot of people on his job as a-holes and that was just part of his character. He was a wannabee cop that did not get accepted into the police academy because of poor credit.

One piece of evidence I don't get is that IF Martin was straddling Zimmerman and had his arms pinned, how did Zimmerman get his gun out? I also think the gun was on his right side but it looks to me like Zimmerman is taking all of his notes in court with his left hand.

I didn't see anything about his arms being pinned, his chest and body were pinned by the 158 pounds of 5'11" Martin. GZ's face was being pushed and his hands were probably occupied by trying to push TM hands off his face. He then probably remembered his weapon and moved his hands downward to his weapon, which TM could see and realized then that GZ was going for something. GZ might of been thinking of just pulling the weapon in an attempt to scare TM and to get him off. However, TM also moved his hands down toward the weapon and GZ was forced to fire. Whether GZ is lefthanded or right, you wear your weapon on the side you wish to draw.

I believe his Air Marshall friend testified that although Zimmerman is left handed, he used his right hand when firing his weapon.

I've worked in institutions with insane offenders: ax murderers, tire iron murderers. I've owned properties where vagrants slept in the outside laundry room and hastily retreated leaving a copy of today's newspaper and a blanket. Not to mention violent drug addicts whose children I brought to shelter at midnight.

My door was kicked in by a 17 year old in my very nice neighborhood. Lucky for him and for me, he did not come into my house. I explained to his parents that his so-called prank behavior would have gotten him shot if he had entered my house.

I'd feel safer if George Zimmerman lived in my neighborhood...he has a clue and he packs.

Much difference between a 17 year old kicking in your door and a 17 year old walking home from the store after buying skittles and an Arizona Tea. If Zimmerman is found not guilty, I don't want him moving to my neighborhood.

People with a clue don't get out of their car and follow someone who they fear. At least most of the people that I know with clue wouldn't.

His life is pretty much over ... he will lose a big civil suit.

Two knuckleheads. Finally I can agree 100 percent of a statement on this issue. GZ is a perfect example of what happens when you make assumptions that are wrong, TM should have just headed for his house and shut the door,

Winning a civil suit and collecting on that judgement are two different things. Ask the Goldman family how much they received from their judgement against O.J. Simpson...Zero!

respectfully to one of my fave posters, dougb,
the 17 year old who kicked my door in was out on a high school football player graduation prank session in my neighborhood. he was just walking by unarmed with buddies, having a good time, and got carried away. I had far less reason to assume I needed self defense than someone underneath an assailant. He got caught because they kept sauntering on down the street while I watched them from the garage. Apparently, they never thought they did anything really wrong.

Chickens don't. I would have followed and reported.