Zimmerman - did the system work?
 

I see a lot of posts saying that they were relieved and that the system worked. Did it? I happen to agree with what Mark O'Mara said last night: two aspects of the sysytem failed George Zimmerman. First, the media failed in its responsibility to objectively report the news and instead was used as a powerful tool of the professional rable rousers like Al Sharpton. I must admit, I too fell for this initially. I saw the distorted, one-sided reports and was convinced that Zimmerman had preyed on an innocent teenager.

Secondly, and most importantly, the legal system failed George Zimmerman. I'm sure he felt like he didn't do anything wrong and that the system would work and never press charges against him. Little did he know that our legal system no longer works like the blindfolded symbol that is used to portray it. He didn't realize that when politics get involved and people like Angela Corey get involved, your rights are thrown away and power of the state can marshalled against you with no attempt of giving you any benefit of the doubt.

Ultimately, the system did work - but only after successfully destroying a person whose primary motivation was nothing more than helping keep his neighborhood safe.

Stand by...the "system" is not done by a long shot....

"On Sunday, Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-NV) asked for the Justice Department to prosecute George Zimmerman, who was acquitted Saturday night in the killing of Trayvon Martin. “I think the Justice Department is going to take a look at this,” Reid told NBC’s Meet the Press. “This isn’t over with and I think that’s good. That’s our system, it’s gotten better, not worse.”

Reid on Zimmerman: 'This Isn't Over With'

"The National Association for the Advancement of Colored People (NAACP) has called on the Obama administration to pursue civil rights charges against George Zimmerman.

The NAACP also tweeted out a petition urging the Justice Department to “open a civil rights case against George Zimmerman.”

“Attorney General Eric Holder,” the petition reads, “The Department of Justice has closely monitored the State of Florida’s prosecution of the case against George Zimmerman in the Trayvon Martin murder since it began. Today, with the acquittal of George Zimmerman, it is time for the Department of Justice to act.”

“The most fundamental of civil rights — the right to life — was violated the night George Zimmerman stalked and then took the life of Trayvon Martin,” the NAACP wrote. “We ask that the Department of Justice file civil rights charges against Mr. Zimmerman for this egregious violation.”

“Please address the travesties of the tragic death of Trayvon Martin by acting today,” the NAACP wrote.

The head of the NAACP and Attorney General Eric Holder have both expressed their admiration for one another.

Read more: NAACP pursues civil rights charges against Zimmerman | The Daily Caller

""Well, I think that this is an atrocity," said Sharpton. "I think that it is probably one of the worst situations that I've seen. What this jury has done is establish a precedent that when you are young and fit a certain profile, you can be committing no crime, just bringing some Skittles and iced tea home to your brother, and be killed and someone can claim self-defense having been exposed with all kinds of lies, all kinds of inconsistencies. ... Even at trial when he is exposed over and over again as a liar, he is acquitted. This is a sad day in the country. I think that we clearly must move on to the next step in terms of the federal government and in terms of the civil courts. Clearly, we want people to be disciplined, strategic. But this is a slap in the face to those that believe in justice in this country."

Sharpton: 'Slap in the Face to Those Who Believe in Justice in This Country' | The Weekly Standard

:agree:

And again, we taxpayers paid for the circus. This never should have gone to trial, all those people fired and so on ad nauseam.

and that judge! http://news.investors.com/ibd-editor...-zimmerman.htm

All the noise about this case doesn't change the primary reason for GZs acquittal. It was " reasonable doubt" The jurors voted unanimously and each side was well represented. No one knows what was in the hearts of the combatants, but after hearing the evidence "reasonable doubt" remained. I for one am happy that this standard takes precedence in our judicial process.

So the police seemed to be on the right track until they were cut off in their investigation by POLITICS.

Let us see now how POLITICS gets involved as it already has begun.

I respectfully disagree with the OP and the poster who agrees with NJBlue. To me the decision to engage in violent confrontation carries a heavy responsibility, especially if the party making the decision is armed. Mr. Zimmerman made the decision to initiate that confrontation, without being forced, or having the jurisdiction to do so, and in fact being told not to do so.

And let's leave race out of the incident, even though there is evidence of how Mr. Zimmerman felt about young blacks in the neighborhood, and what might have motivated him to continue into that confrontation.

There is zero credible evidence that Zimmerman initiated the confrontation. Those who claim that Martin reacted from fear of Zimmerman refuse to accept the reality that Martin had four minutes to go the short distance to where he was staying. He chose not to do this. Then, by virtue of the physical evidence, it is apparent that Martin was the one who initiated the physical confrontation. Finally, after hearing Zimmerman's cries for help for over 45 seconds he had the opportunity to break the fight off under the presence of a third party (John Good) and he again chose not to avail himself of that out. Unfortunately, the responsibility of this tragedy falls on Martin.

Are you suggesting that some force compelled Mr Zimmerman to become involved in this incident?

If so, what was that?

Are you suggesting that some force compelled Martin to accost, punch and continue to beat Zimmerman despite pleas for help? If so, what was that?

GZ did not break any law by carrying a weapon or asking TM what he was doing in the neighborhood. The law was first broken when TM assaulted GZ. Unfortunately, that was the mistake that cost him his life. You have no right to assault someone even if they are following or annoying you. TM's parents did not do their job. It is apparent from evidence not allowed that TM took joy in previous "ground and pound" incidents and appeared to be a way of life for him. I wonder how you would feel if the person getting pounded was one of your friends or relatives. All of this happened in seconds and I'm sure anyone on the receiving end of TM beating would have done the same if they are honest with themselves. If you were the one getting the beating would you have been afraid for you life if it was your head being slammed on the concrete?

Our legal system has an established process for dealing with these issues. It is called a trial by jury. It has been completed and the members of that jury heard all the arguments and evidence submitted by both the prosecution and the defense. It was a jury selected and approved by both sides. After hearing all the facts and information they made a unanimous decision of not guilty. For all of us to pontificate as to why this was good or bad is stupid. We only hear what so the so called media wants us to hear, not everything as that jury did. The media has made a circus of this and will not let it go. Either we accept our legal system as is or work to change it. But stop trying to second guess it.

And if Eric Holder or Harry Reid or Al Sharlaton or the NAACP continue to stir the pot, they are the one's that should be prosecuted. You can't try a person a second time for the same thing, that is called double jeopardy and is not allowed under our legal system. They are all grand standing for political gain.

Given the evidence and Florida law, the jury came to the right decision from everything I had seen. It was one of the saddest prosecutorial cases I've seen in a long time. The DA blew it when he aired all of the tapes and videotapes. At that point, the trial was over and the judge could have declared a directed verdict and saved some time and effort.

I do think that there was a good chance a totally different verdict would have occurred had Zimmerman testified. The lies, inconsistencies, his thoughts would have come out.

BTW -- we only have Zimmerman's word that Martin said Zimmerman was going to die that night (sorry, I don't believe that for one second) and I've found no record anywhere that Zimmerman ever asked Martin where he was going. In fact, Martin asked why Zimmerman was following him and Zimmerman denied that he was.

Education and access to practical information is one way to change the system.
 

Get involved with the work I have been doing trying to get more practical materials for survivors/victims of crimes accessible through libraries and Sheriffs' web-sites. That is one way to change the system. This applies to both people who have been victimized by people breaking the law as well as those unfairly accused for crimes they did not commit.

We do need jurors who are better educated in the legal system and its strengths and weaknesses.

The gang in Washington wants to try it as a federal case.

To quote: "experienced federal prosecutors will determine whether the evidence reveals a prosecutable violation of any of the limited federal criminal civil rights statutes within our jurisdiction, and whether federal prosecution is appropriate in accordance with the Department's policy governing successive federal prosecution following a state trial," the DOJ said.

Apparently if "they" do not get their way they will try another way.

Z

What is telling is as I listened to all the testimony ,talking heads and so-called legal eagles when they were speaking of GZ's head wounds like it was no big deal. Even the "special prosecutor" Corey last night in her speech , said it was not sufficient enough of injuries to be classified as self defense. The only person that explained the head injuries of GZ correctly and honestly was the defense's ME who is world reknowned. I know people personally who've died(my brother) who had a fractured skull & a blood clot to the brain from falling on concrete and (my best friend)who hit her head on a hanging pot,and also received a blood clot and had to have brain surgery at MGH in Boston. Niether one of them did not even bleed, my brother had a bump and unfortunately he did not go to the hospital,I wish he had, he'd probably would've been saved if he had. So it is false information when people mock and make light of GZ"s head injuries being a few little scratches, etc,etc. He probably would've died from TM's beating and that's why (I believe) GZ said it was God's will that he had his gun w/him.

ijusluvit -
what is the job of community watch - if not to watch?

under what authority does a police dispatcher issue commands/orders that must be followed? [the dispatchers i know dispatch emergency personnel and have a first aid manual at their desk in case they are needed to provide that info until emergency responders arrive on site]

if gz had not followed tm - how would he have been able to answer the dispatcher's subsequent question of 'where did he go'? confusing/conflicting?

pray tell how you came to the conclusion that gz initiated the confrontation and not tm...just by following tm?

if tm was concerned about being followed by a cracker... why did he not go stratight home, to the first porch with a light on ot call 911 to report same?

what might have motivated gz to follow tm - how about his neighborhood watch responsibilities?

what would you do if your nose was broken and your head slammed into the ground while being told you were going to die that night?

Speculate forever about who broke the law first. The OP asked if the system worked. My opinion is that there is a flaw in the system which allows a person to deliberately confront another person without any compulsion or duty to do so; do so while in possession of a loaded firearm; and then walk away with absolutely no responsibility for the result. I believe that while a person is in possession of a lethal weapon, they have a responsibility not to voluntarily enter into potential confrontations. Think of it as not a lot different from the responsibility to lock up firearms in a private home where children are residing.

Do people realize that there were at least 8 robberies in a matter of 14 mos. at Twin Lakes and that there was other residents BESIDES GZ calling the police for help. There were dozen's of reports of B&E's & would be burglars casing homes & that was creating alot of fear with the residents.It wasn't just Gerge calling the police about "the young black men" robbing homes (their words not mine).That's why GZ was watching TM, NOT to stalk him as the media so falsely keeps stating over & over to bolster this phoney scenario of racial profiling, it's very scary. The ones who want to protect the innocent victims are the ones that are being labeled the "evil racial profiling haters"! WOW!!!

[QUOTE=Bucco;708047[B]"The National Association for the Advancement of Colored People (NAACP) has called on the Obama administration to pursue civil rights charges against George Zimmerman.

The NAACP also tweeted out a petition urging the Justice Department to “open a civil rights case against George Zimmerman.”

“Attorney General Eric Holder,” the petition reads, “The Department of Justice has closely monitored the State of Florida’s prosecution of the case against George Zimmerman in the Trayvon Martin murder since it began. Today, with the acquittal of George Zimmerman, it is time for the Department of Justice to act.”

“The most fundamental of civil rights — the right to life — was violated the night George Zimmerman stalked and then took the life of Trayvon Martin,” the NAACP wrote. “We ask that the Department of Justice file civil rights charges against Mr. Zimmerman for this egregious violation.”

“Please address the travesties of the tragic death of Trayvon Martin by acting today,” the NAACP wrote.

The head of the NAACP and Attorney General Eric Holder have both expressed their admiration for one another.[/B]



Why was it OK for OJ Simpson to walk but not Zimmerman???? Because Simpson was black and Zimmerman wasn't.

I have read all the previous responses to the OP's question. I have been one of the minority on TOTV that was disappointed in the verdict. Please do not argue with me, because to answer the OP's question, I believe the system did work. For those complaining about spending taxpayer money on a trial, I submit to you that a man was shot to death with very few witnesses to witness the entire incident. I can think of no higher purpose of a society than to make sure that it was self defense rather than murder. So, in that respect, the system worked because there was a trial. Next, I believe that a jury was picked with both the prosecution and defense having the opportunity to accept or reject jurors that would hear the case with impartiality, listen to evidence that I was not previously aware of, and come to a verdict that was not influenced by fear or bribes or threats. In that respect also, the system worked. I believe that both the prosecution and defense had a chance to present their cases, so the system worked there also. So, I accept the verdict and will move on with my life. I have heard it said that the United States has the second worst justice system in the world. The only one that is worse is everybody else's.

Why is it that J.Jackson, A.Sharpton, NAACP, & others don't organize the same kinds of marches and calling on Washington (like they are now re;the Zimmerman/Martin case) for all the young black men and women that are being murdered everyday in our country?

I used to second guess juries. However, after serving on a jury that was sequestered for three weeks for a murder trial, I no longer second guess. It is a very intense and difficult job they have, and as stated, both sides were represented and heard in this case. In this juries eyes the state didn't meet the criteria for a conviction. It SHOULD be over, whether we onlookers agree or not.

I didn't follow this case as "some" seem to have done, due to the fact that early on the media and others took it upon themselves to try and convict GZ. They didn't have ALL of the facts yet they kept on and on and on. Given all that...I posted the above quote because I agree with it....especially the last couple of sentences. I'd rather live in our country than anywhere else in the world due to how our fore-fathers set things up for us to enjoy freedoms that many do not get to. As for this whole outcome----no one has won, in my opinion. Two families are hurting and will never be the same again. I don't think any of us have the answers and can keep on speculating but the outcome of this is still the same.

It worked
 

The system worked. There just wasn't enough evidence to convict GZ. If you really think about it, GZ was just doing his job as neighborhood watch. He was watching a suspicious person be it black, white, male or female. He was doing what he signed up for. That neighborhood had plenty of issues to form a watch group.

[QUOTE=Shimpy;708156
snipped
Why was it OK for OJ Simpson to walk but not Zimmerman???? Because Simpson was black and Zimmerman wasn't.[/QUOTE]

no - oj walked because the prosecution team did a lousy job!

The problem with your opinion it is as you said yourself speculation. The jury dealt with facts and evidence.

In Florida it's called the "shoot first" law.

If not mistaken, the law you make fun of was not an issue and the right to use it was waived by the defendant thus, what is your point ? No more self defense laws ?

We talk about facts and evidence --

There was no "evidence" that GZ started the altercaton
There was lots of evidence the GZ was taking a beating .

GZ did nothing illegal by following TM --we will never know who did what

Some facts from the people that were there:
All the Police officers believed GZ acted in self defense (you could tell by their testimony)
The Chief of Police was fired because he failed to arrest GZ
The DA refused to prosecute

The case never went to Grand Jury to hear the evidence --because they knew they would not call for any action and were afraid of an uprising

The IT person who found some evidence on TM phone and came forward after the prosecuters faild to notify the defense about the discovery was fired
SIX jurors could not find enough evidence to convict.

The system worked

GZ was found not guilty --not innocent --none of us are !!

It is a shame that TM died --it could have been averted with a little communication--- instead of a lot of tough guy stuff

I realize you don't appreciate my correcting you, but if you read my post again you might realize I used the word 'speculate' referring to another poster's comments.

Go ahead, read my comments again. Is it not obvious I have cited facts from the case to support my opinion that there is a flaw in the system?

ijusluvit - i have followed your posts and am having a hard time finding out where you have cited any facts from the case - could you please point them out again? thanx

Excellent post.

Some of you people are as blind as LADY JUSTICE.
This case was decided due to lack of evidence by the state.
Maybe it was the calls to 911 that indeed worked in favor for GZ, including the screams.
If there was one more call to 911 that night the Circus Trial would never have taken place.
Which call do you ask? The call TM should have made himself with cell phone in hand.
He should have hung up on his "friend" and reported to the 911 operator that he was being followed by a "creepy-ass cracker" or better still he could have just said he was being stalked.
Maybe with that 4 minute long time period he could have ducked behind a bush or wall and made that call. What really happened was that this slick street kid was prepared to confront and challenge GZ.
TMs friend testified that she thought "it" would just be a fight and he would call her back.
Was she alarmed? Nah......
TM also referred to GZ as.... "The N----- is still following me". (scared child?)
He confronted GZ and did pop him in the nose, I believe GZ may have tried to flee. That's why his flashlight was a distance away from the area of the shooting. TM wanted GZ to remember him so he got him down, straddled him and began to wail away. GZ screamed for help for almost 40 seconds.
Who knows when TM would have stopped his assault.
I watched every minute of testimony in this case and in my opinion the jury got it right.
GZ openly talked with the police on several occasions without representation the next day.
Two statements to the police the next day during the walk through really made my mind up. GZ said that he was screaming loud while he was being punched in the head while on his back. When the lead detective tried to trick him by saying "there's a good chance that we have this all on video" GZ said "I hope so, thank God".
GZ did not confront a vandal or burgler that night, he had the misfortune to meet a punk with a bad attitude. For TM it was just going to be another ass whopping to tell his cousin.
Now all we hear is a child going home with skittles was gunned down by a wanna-be cop.
Things are never going to change in America.
Personally, I've been there and done that......

Great post - agree totally.

Zimmerman decided to follow Martin and that was a mistake. Then he was told to stop following him by the police dispatcher so he complied with those instruction. Mistake rectified. Now a whole new scenario takes place.

Isn't it interesting that the NAACP and those other groups who are asking the justice department to open a case keep using the term that Zimmerman "stalked and killed him".

I have to believe that they know that this is simply not the case and that that language is meant to inflame the situation.

You ARE 100% right in every detail.

Took your suggestion and reread the post, but still don't see any facts. I am very curious about folks that believe GZ was guilty as to exactly what evidence they are using to come up with this conclusion - other than speculation.

Our judicial system, although isn't perfect, is the best in the free world, and the outcome was correct, he was judged by his piers and they got it right. Now all the uneducated, unemployed, racist people that have nothing better to do, and want the line there pockets with more money, as donations pour in, will get there way.

Newt Gingrich has been making the rounds on the major networks and he's the only one that has the guts to tell it like it really is, that being , why isn't anyone making an issue out of blacks killing blacks! Why,why,why doesn't Jackson, Sharpton, NAACP care about that reality??

Because it has NO political gain attached to it.