I love dogs, but owners are another thing
 

I love dogs. However, when I watched a neighbor walk her two dogs and stop at my lawn this morning while her dog did his business on my lawn, I was shocked. She was not at the edge but well off the street with the dogs on a long leash in the middle of my lawn and waited a while until the dog decided to do his business on my lawn. Yes, she picked it up and yes, one has limited control over such things. But this behavior was rude, inconsiderate and selfish. Why not walk the dogs on YOUR LAWN? Or since we are a developing village (Hillsborough) with many acres of vacent land, why walk your dogs on your new neighbors lawns? It is just RUDE!

:agree::agree::agree:

A big problem
 

Hello nysnowbirds. Couldn't agree with your post more, however, if you do a search on this website you will find many, many threads on dog poop. It seems to be a major problem here in TV. Just a heads up.....be ready for a lot of belittling of your complaint.....people putting up the popcorn icon......and the smart responses to your complaint because that's what dog poop threads get. People don't realize how annoying it is to have dog owners walk their dogs on your property. I believe there is a product on the market called "dog be gone"? That you can put down and the dogs will not go near your property. Also, a mixture of ammonia and water sprayed around the parimeter of your lawn, not on the grass, will discourage any animals from entering your property. I expect if you ask the dog owners not to walk their dogs on your property you will encounter a nasty, hostile response from the owner. Just my take on this whole dog poop thing.

I will not belittle the OPs post. I don't have a dog, so I don't have a dog in this fight.

To say that there have been MANY, many, many threads on this subject is an understatement. In summary you will hear from dog owners who care deeply about the responsible behavior of their pets, you will not hear at all from those who don't care what you think about their dogs coming into your lawn and pooping and you will have a lot of very intense posts on this thread about every spectrum of this problem.

There are those who move here and quite frankly do NOT like dogs of any kind and may be afraid of them and do not want them around and use the dog poop issue to be "anti-dog". There are those who used to have children that they didn't control or curtail and now they have dogs who they are equally as irresponsible about. There are the majority of folks who do their best to carry a plastic bag, try to get their pooch to poop in "acceptable" places......although there is a HUGE debate on where that is.

There are people like us who have an end lot and never have had any dog or their owner poop on our property, nor did we when we had an interior lot in Hadley. I know the names of all dogs in our 54 home village except the new folks who haven't ventured down this way yet. I think the dogs know my name too.

Other people are not so fortunate and many peoply frankly feel pooped on, because they are. You will have folks tell you to turn the sprinklers on, put pepper spray down and to march right our there and tell the owner what you think. Some people think old Gary Morse should have been smart enough to ban dogs (Boo!) or have dog free villages.I think all of those things might work. But it is what it is.

How will you handle it?

It is a problem for some but not all.

And it's FREE
http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/i...ps42888eb5.jpg

I used to have 3 dogs when I lived up north, now I have one. When we moved here, she would not use our CYV area to do her business. We took up the rock and put down grass thinking that would do the trick. Nope. We invited our neighbors dog to do his business in our yard thinking she would smell it and get the hint. Nope. What other option do we have besides walking her? The public grassy area by our house is all the way down our street so when she has to poop, I have to walk her all the way down there. What do I do when she goes onto someone else's lawn to do her business because she can't wait, except pick it up? At least I do that. She can't walk totally on the hot pavement so I have to give her a little lead on the leash so she can get into the grass or rock before her pads burn. I'm sorry if my dog goes on someone else's lawn, but I do pick it up.

Me too I pick up the dog poop and often have at least four plastic bags with which to do this. It is kind of hard to just walk your dog around your own house. That is not much exercise for the owner nor for the dog.

I think that as long as it's picked up it's not a big deal. I always pick up the poop, urine....Oh well.

I kind of think I'm providing a service for chronic complainers and that's a good thing. If you look back through the thousands of comments on the dog issue you will see the same people time and again with the same complaints. These same people seem to have complaints about everything, soooo... apparently it's not the dogs that are the issue. Sometimes it's easier to focus on the pi$$ant aspects of life than to focus on real issues.

Years ago my shrink told me "Do what makes you happy." It makes me happy to walk the dogs, other people are happy to complain. It's all good.

No it's not. I did it every day of the six years we lived in The Villages.

There is no reason a dog can't go in their own yard. They may not want to but if you keep them walking around long enough it will happen. Put the dog on the leash and keep them moving around, even if it's only a ten foot circle, and it will happen. Ctuttle in the time it takes you to walk your dog to the "public" area but your dog can't hold it and goes on a neighbor's lawn, you could have been walking your dog in your own yard and had success there and not be ticking off your neighbors.

My dog knew we did not go for a walk until everything was taken care of first in our own yard.

Sorry, but I don't buy it.

My dogs poop in the street which I think is disgusting but I have no choice. Sometimes they surprise me on our walk and if they have to go I can't stop it and I wouldn't dare let them enter someone's lawn even though I think it is more sanitary than pooping in the street. Yes I always, always, always pick it up.

I agree with all the replys. If you read my entire original post the person I observed was particularly RUDE, in that 20 feet away from my lawn is about 200 acres of open undeveloped land where the dogs could do their business. I have owned dogs most of my life and love them. Walked them often and always picked up their stuff even before it was the law as it is in most municipalities. This was just a particularly inconsiderate person.

To be clear - I love dogs - just hate some rude dog owners and I know it is not a reflection on all dog owners - most are appropriate - just this person was not.

Enuf said on an apparently well covered topic. Thanks for all the replies.

:agree:
1. Your owning a dog does not mean you own the property rights of your neighbors, period, no excuses.
2. Your or your dog entering neighbor's yard to leave a deposit is a trespass violation with a fine up to $1000, whether picked up or just urine are immaterial.
3. Your picking up poop in the neighbor's yard subjects the neighbor to liability lawsuit if you slip and fall, etc.
4. Your walking your dog in neighbor's yards is not just rude, it's crude, self-centered and uncivilized.
5. You or your dog may be subjected to confrontation by the neighbor or the neighbor's dog, with ensuing legal action.

Solutions?
Walk to a common area, or transport the dog to a common area, or get an invisible fence. Or give the dog to someone who is responsible.
Doing the easiest thing on the neighbor's yard and rationalizing it away is using poor judgment splashed with self-pity.

Just my two cents worth.

Personally I ALWAYS walk my mutt in our back yard. She does her business, I pick it up and then we go for a walk.

I try very hard to only walk her in the street - if it is that hot then possibly on the very edge of the lawn. If I see her about to make a deposit, as sometimes happens, (which always mystifies me as she just went) I guide her into the street.

I always carry bags and pick it up as best I can from the street.

Have a neighbor (in So. Fl.) who lets his dog go anywhere. He claims she won't go in his back yard. Sorry - don't buy it. As stated by EnglishIvy keep walking her - she will go. Eventually it will become the norm.

Ohno another dog poop/ bad owner post.
I suggest you pose all your questions to the person on your lawn.

I also suggest, if you know where the lawn sprinkler control is, dash over and turn it on when they are on your lawn!!

btk

Great idea !

C'mon btk - we haven't had a poop thread in a few weeks.
Don't want the subject to get old and stinky !

Allowing the dog to go out fully extended on retractable leash onto somebody else's yard/property is called

TRESSPASSING. It's not public property!

The first thing that ought to go is the retractable leashes. There is at least one sad account here of an elderly lady in Spanish Springs, walking down the sidewalk, and a dog owner had the cord extended out quite far. The cord is so thin it's not visible and the lady tripped over it and had what could have been a brain and spinal injury but fortunately wasn't.

Also, they are a danger when walking in the streets of neighborhoods without sidewalks. If the dog bolts toward moving car wheels it's a disaster to try to get him pulled back to yourself in an instant.

I saw a guy with his retractable lead the other night, doing 2 inconsiderate things at Lake Sumter Landing, on the lakeside of the Sales Center. First he let the dog go up onto the grass/landscaping at the side doors of the sales center and it was doing its business there. As soon as the dog was done he let it go out about 15 feet from him on the retractable cord. He was on the inside of the sidewalk and the dog was on the outside, with the cord able to trip anyone who came around the corner. It was dusk and the cord was barely visible. I told him people have tripped over cords like that and the dog needs to be kept close to the owner.

He growled and had no intention of doing anything about it. Especially in a town square/downtown, the dog needs to be kept close regardless of what type of leash it's on. Not everybody wants an unknown dog coming up to them!

Our dog does all his business in his own yard. After that he gets his walk. Simple.

My dog poops 3 or 4 times while I'm walking it. You must have had a real smart dog if it knew to poop all it had to before it could go for a walk. I have a greyhound. It needs exercise. Sorry but if I am walking it and it has to go, it goes. I pick it up. End of story. The respectable thing is to pick it up and that's what I do. Yell at me if I don't, but I'm not going to NOT walk my dog and give it what it needs just so other people are happy. If there was a law against walking your dog, I would obey it. To me, the only "law" there is, is to be respectful and pick it up. Can anyone give me a VALID reason, not just a grumpy complaint, but a VALID reason why a dog pooping in a yard and being picked up is bad for the lawn? Or better yet, if the dog poops on rocks, why it is bad for the rocks. Hello, rain washes it off the rocks if any is left on it.

That's just as rude as the person who allowed their dog to go on your property. Two wrongs don't make a right.

Also, if the dog hasn't done so already, it will scare the crap out of it. Don't take it out on the poor dog for the owner's problem.

There is absolutely no reason for a dog to be on another person's lawn unless they were invited. Especially several feet into the lawn. Simple as that.

Did someone ask for popcorn? :popcorn: :popcorn:

Any community that allows two dogs per household will have some uncivilized dog owners. We all knew when we purchased in The Villages that there are a huge number of dogs walking around. As a matter of fact, some of us purchased in TV because it's such a dog-friendly community. Obviously this was part of The Developer's vision.

Should everyone be civil and respectful and never speed in their golf cart or make rude finger motions in a roundabout or walk their dogs on someone else's lawn? Absolutely. Will that ever happen? Absolutely not. As with the other myriad of dog poop threads, all this thread will do is allow some frustrated residents to vent their frustration. And it obviously makes them feel better to vent, so I guess it's a good thing to have regular poop threads.

But please don't lose sight of the fact that most dog owners are civilized and charming and respectful of others' property. Unfortunately there are always some bad apples, that's life.

Dog walking on private property
 

Contrary to what you say, there IS a law against walking the dog on private property.

See Florida statutes below:
it is a misdemeanor to enter private property (curtilage, #2) for the purpose of an offense, to see a list of offenses regarding waste and litter, see (2b).

Florida Statute
810.09 Trespass on property other than structure or conveyance.—

(1)(a) A person who, without being authorized, licensed, or invited, willfully enters upon or remains in any property other than a structure or conveyance:
1. As to which notice against entering or remaining is given, either by actual communication to the offender or by posting, fencing, or cultivation as described in s. 810.011; or

2. If the property is the unenclosed curtilage of a dwelling and the offender enters or remains with the intent to commit an offense thereon, other than the offense of trespass,

commits the offense of trespass on property other than a structure or conveyance.

(b) As used in this section, the term “unenclosed curtilage” means the unenclosed land or grounds, and any outbuildings, that are directly and intimately adjacent to and connected with the dwelling and necessary, convenient, and habitually used in connection with that dwelling.


(2)(a) Except as provided in this subsection, trespass on property other than a structure or conveyance is a misdemeanor of the first degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082 or s. 775.083.

(b) If the offender defies an order to leave, personally communicated to the offender by the owner of the premises or by an authorized person, or if the offender willfully opens any door, fence, or gate or does any act that exposes animals, crops, or other property to waste, destruction, or freedom; unlawfully dumps litter on property; or trespasses on property other than a structure or conveyance, the offender commits a misdemeanor of the first degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082 or s. 775.083.

Well, I guess all I can say is, I would love to be a fly on the wall when someone calls the police out to their house and the officer asks what the problem is and the person says "that person let their dog poop on my property and then had the audacity to come onto my grass to pick it up!"

I think there are more important issues in life than someone's dog on someone else's grass.

Sorry, I think your interpretation is a bit off.

I wonder how may posts this thread will eventually have?

I'm open to that possibility, Patty. What are you thinking I misread?

The phone call to the Sheriff's office concerning a dog pooping on a yard and someone cleaning it up without being invited onto the property would truly be one for Jay Leno's segment on funny 911 calls.

I would love to hear a conversation like that as well as the in-station talk among the officers about it after The Villager got off the line.

My continuing question in mind with all these threads and posts defending habitual--not one-time--trespassing on private property is:

Why is it not enough that a homeowner says, "Keep your dog off my property"?

Why are people so condescending that they defend disrespect of our rights of private property ownership??

To me, the way I was raised by people who expect obedience to rules and norms of common decency, nobody should even have to mention calling the police nor refer to state laws.

In a democratic society, people are required to discipline themselves!

I do understand the difficulty of toileting the dog, I have a big one. I really don't expect any legal mess to happen over dog poop, but liability issues are a concern. For that reason I'd rather people leave the poop than come in my yard to pick it up. I'd put up a sign saying leave the poop, but they don't let you put up sign. This topic is never going to be resolved....sigh.

I don't think you misread it, I think you interpretation is off. In my mind it is not criminal tresspassing unless there is a secondary offense. In my mind there would have to be a secondary offense with malice, but I could be wrong.

"2. If the property is the unenclosed curtilage of a dwelling and the offender enters or remains with the intent to commit an offense thereon, other than the offense of trespass,"

If you are seriously thinking of following through on this action you should maybe speak to an attorney. I'm sure there are some that will give you a free phone consultation.

It must be hell to get old! I wonder if you all complain about your neighbors leaves falling on your property.

Oh my, all of my perceptions about moving to The Villages is that it will be a fun, friendly place, now I am wondering. . . .

Let's not mock and minimize. Leaves are nowhere even close to what dog feces are for disease transmission, environmental pollution, and aggravation to neighbors:


Dog waste poses threat to water

By Traci Watson, USA TODAY

For as long as the dog has been man's best friend, dog waste has posed a menace to man's nose and foot. Now science has revealed a more unsavory truth: It's an environmental pollutant.

In the mid-1990s, scientists perfected methods for tracking the origin of nasty bacteria in streams and seawater. From Clearwater, Fla., to Arlington, Va., to Boise the trail has led straight to the hunched-up dog — and to owners who don't pick up after their pets.

At some beaches, dogs help raise bacteria levels so high that visitors must stay out of the water. Goaded by such studies, some cities have directed as much as $10,000 in the last few years to encourage dog owners to clean up after their pets. A few municipalities have started issuing citations to those who ignore pet clean-up ordinances.

Many dog lovers are in denial about their pooches' leavings. But researchers have named the idea that areas used by dogs pump more bacteria into waterways — the "Fido hypothesis."

Dogs are only one of many fixtures of suburban America that add to water pollution. Lawn fertilizers, rinse water from driveways and motor oil commonly end up in streams and lakes.

But unlike those sources, dogs generate disease-causing bacteria that can make people sick. Studies done in the last few years put dogs third or fourth on the list of contributors to bacteria in contaminated waters. "Dogs are one of our usual suspects," says Valerie Harwood, a microbiologist at the University of South Florida. "At certain sites, we find their effect to be significant."

It doesn't take a Ph.D. to figure out that dog do is nasty. But it took science to determine how nasty it is.

From mutt to blue-blooded champion, all dogs harbor so-called coliform bacteria, which live in the gut. The group includes E. coli, a bacterium that can cause disease, and fecal coliform bacteria, which spread through feces. Dogs also carry salmonella and giardia. Environmental officials use measurements of some of these bacteria as barometers of how much fecal matter has contaminated a body of water.

This wouldn't matter if pet dogs were as rare as pet chinchillas. But four in 10 U.S. households include at least one dog, according to the American Pet Products Manufacturers Association. The association's statistics also show that Americans owned 54.6 million dogs in 1996 and 68 million dogs in 2000. Of that total, 45% were "large" dogs — 40 pounds or more.

Those numbers add up to a lot of kibble. That wouldn't matter if all dog owners also owned a pooper-scooper. But several studies have found that roughly 40% of Americans don't pick up their dogs' feces (women are more likely to do so than men).....

most assuredly you jest.:jester:

While TOTV offers a wealth of communication/education/suggestion/direction/help.....it is also fraught with personal opinion and predjudices and beliefs and even some off the wall stuff.

But we all know that 98%+++ of us are happy as clams to be here and we do not let the 2% or less minority positions affect our lives and most certainly not our decisions.

Some of us will rest easy knowing a dog poop thread, with all anonymous contributors would not affect one of the more important decisions in your life.:pray:

btk

Oh my
 

OH MY.....the things we worry about!

So what should we do about all those poopin, bacteria carrying, disease ridden wild animals that live in and around The Villages??? Wonder what the alligator poop does to the water? and I would venture a guess all those chemicals used to keep our grass growing and green is a much bigger hazard.

It is hot and the humidity is like a sauna. Who brought this whole subject up again?

Sit.

Roll over.

Stay.

Just go and read all of graciegirl posts.............................and you will feel better.

Okie Dokie, Query me this... How do my shrimpy little pack cause more of a contamination problem pooping in your yard than my yard? How about urine, I'm not picking it up either way.

You want to worry about bacteria, stop getting ice in your drink.

Yes, there are lots of dogs that generate a lot of poop, according to this article there were 60 million of them in 2000. And eating dog poop will definitely make you sick. I don't understand why this article is relevant to a Villages dog that pees on a neighbor's lawn.

I can give you 2 very good reasons.

I do my own yard work, pull weeds, and clean out the grass around the sprinkler heads. Do you think I want to be rooting around where you dog peed or crapped? How about you come over and clean out around my sprinklers?

And how about grand kids playing ball and rolling around in the grass where your dog just left his mess?