when The Village's outgrow the population at some time in the future what will happen
 

Has anyone considered when The Village's outgrow the population at some point in the future what will happen? How will the potential problems be handled when TV just gets too big? As an example the key government construction is based on the Developers appointments/controls. I don't think anyone questions this. There is little question that at some point there will be a greater demand for a more basic form of a Democratic government. You can see some of the problems starting to pop up. The historic entertainment practices have changed, (e.g. no support for a majority of parades, the entertainment at the squares has become less in talents.) It is also noted that landscaping is not as good as it was and there are a lot more weeds and uncut bushes, etc).It does not take a lot to observe these changes. This may mean there are problems with the current growth and it will just get worse. The question is has anyone thought about this and what if anything is being done to put together plans for the future. Not planning for the future is really outrages as we will get into a reactive mod as opposed to a "proactive mod". Does anyone really think you can act the same way when the growth goes from 10,000 to over 100,000 without a
real form of a democracy? Just think this is something that should be debated.:shrug:

Depends upon whether the developer or his represents/business chooses to stay involved after buildout.

If he chooses to leave, like most planned developments there will be some sort of transition period identified at which time a team (for lack of any other term)
Will be made of of resident representatives, developer reprs.

I do not think we have to worry about them packing up and leaving the ship with no ruder, no captain, no direction. That is not the way billion dollar business men operate.
I know there will be some quoting of the bad guy examples.

btk

Where does democracy work well? I don't think there is anything better for a small population than a kingdom, if there is a good king. ... And a citizenry that knows it has the power can keep the kingdom in check. As for us, we have been making decisions our whole life and are ready to relax and st worrying. Although we are just now getting a place here, we have been familiar with TV. These quesitions have been continuous. Let's just he that the upcoming princes and princess's will follow in the fotsts of the king. If not, there is plenty of brain power here to deal with it. In the mean time, relax and st worrying.

I agree. It is half full or half empty. Like anywhere in the world you will find the folks that like to live under the premise that the sky is falling, but no where in our travels and we have done a lot, have we lived among so many upbeat positive people. To think that after generations of family building a world famous retirement community would allow their families reputation to be destroyed is a bit of a stretch. Unlike Detroit, with the worst unemployment and terible selection of city politicians, THE VILLAGES if filled with retires with fixed income and even better, with planners that rely on the success of this place to insure their jobs. If you are worried about thirty years from now, go down to one of the squares, have a glass of wine or a cold beer and take a short break from that silliness. Stress kills.

I worry about carpet ******* for lack of a better word.
 

I don't know how to phrase it but I worry about offsite landlords buying up tons of resales and renting them out. Two, or three or four or even five homes owned by a responsible villager that is onsite most of the time is good, but people who are not of our demographics with ONLY a view to make money coming in and buying property to make this a vacation destination really worries me.

But what worries me more is that it does become a place where villagers run it . We will go down the tube fast when that happens. We will take the amenity funds and build all of the things that each person wants until we are overspent and underwater and then have to raise the amenity fees until it isn't the reasonable amount that allows almost everyone to afford to live here. We will have indoor pools and performance centers and dog parks and charging centers for golf carts and people will be able to freely drive their golf cart to Miami and Miami folks will be able to drive their golf carts here and the average age will become thirty and we will see signs all about for three golf carts in every garage and chicken in every pot. Whoops...I got a little carried away there. But it would be UGLY.

I do not want to see the inmates running this asylum.

Love live the king.

Gracie, Sorry I have to disagree with you. I think we are more than capable of taking care of ourselves. With the talent we have here and the people who really love to stay involved we can make it wok.....a great example is that we do it now on the north side of 466 we took that huge settlement we won from THE OWNERS (by the way which was won by retired lawyers who live here against a huge law firm in S Fla.) and have put it to good use.....I don't see any frivolous spending on what each and every person wants. I think we should ALL have a say in what happens. I for one do not like to be dictated to.

In our younger days we lived in a golf course community, it was a public course and we enjoyed it but it was put up for sale and we didn't want to see it become a bunch of homes so....a hundred or so homeowners bought the course. These were folks who we played golf with for years and thought a couple of thousand dollars each, we are in. What a disaster. We soon learned that common sense is a rarity. Meetings were dominated by know it alls and funds were argued about. Some women wanted to enlarge the ladies locker room and hire a masseuse, some guys wanted to get a loan and redesign the whole course with a golf course architect. There were those who wanted to use private carts on the course and those who didn't. There are those who wanted to turn the hamburger beer concession into fine dining.

WE all finally got out of it and sold it to someone who did build houses on it and we all lost about a thousand bucks each but learned tons about a group of homeowners coming to agreement on what money should be spent on.

And the suit of which you speak..profited those attorneys about four million bucks personally, if I remember correctly and the now president of the POA fifty grand, not that was the reason for the suit. No one can say quite clearly what the reason for the suit was because they aren't allowed to talk about it if they were involved. But we do hear a LOT of opinions. Some must be true, but who knows??? Since I have lived here, the last six years the south side of 466 is maintained perfectly.

Here is a link to that suit from the Orlando Sentinel from March 2006 when it happened.
http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/...es-fees-lawyer

I choose NOT to think about "what if's"....LIFE is way too short to worry. Things do change...some of which we have NO control over so why worry about it in that case? Just my philosophy!!

In pursuit of my future purchase, here is where I get a further understanding of TV operations from folks experiencing the lifestyle.

My understandings are: (1) A number of CDDs, not the commercial or the new build, are controlled by the citizens as envisioned by the Florida "Uniform Community Development District Act of 1980." So a good example would be how are these democratic districts operating. (2) The "free entertainment" is provided by the developer and charged as an expense of sales/promotion. So after build-out, unless the residents pay for this, it may be a little quieter in TV. (3) The "settlement" referred to involves a breach of agreements to provide appropriate levels of amenity services and facilities. My concern here would be are the amenity fees being paid sufficient to maintain the facilities and to fund the bonds, current and future, to pay the developer? The VCCDD should have a budget, available to the residents, that shows how this will be accomplished. (4) A review of TV demographics would suggest that the level of education and experience far surpasses any other U.S. jurisdiction of any size. So the foundation for a well operated municipality currently exists in TV, regardless of the size of the population.

Comments are extremely welcomed because I need to make a purchase with my "eyes-wide-open."

The areas south of 466 are run the way the developer has run them from the beginning. The areas north of 466 have "input" from the inhabitants.

I will let others tell you what they think. I personally like living south.

Drive around and look both places and see what you think. All are lovely. The areas south have MORE deed restrictions and less objects of art in yards.

As long as the demographics don't change...I'm good...

I don't think that you got carried away at all. It sounds like most municipalities and states in this country.

The problem is not democracy as I see it, it is the bastardization of democracy. The federal government takes so much of our money and then holds it out to states and municipalities in order to get them to do what they want as though they know what's better for us.

Throw in the fact that people who have gotten in power in the past have set up a system slants the electoral process in their favor and we get this system that's no longer a true form of democracy.

We are not and were never intended to be a democracy anyway. We are a representative republic. Pure democracy would never work with anything but a small number of people. It would simply take too much of every one's time to be involved in making every decision that get's made. That's why we hire people to make those decisions for us.

I don't understand all of the worrying about this place getting to big either. I really don't care. I have my little house and little bit of land. I have nice neighbors and everything I really need within a short golf cart drive. Things that happen down below 466A don't really affect me and I don't think that they ever will. I don't know that any different form of government will ever be necessary. What we have now appears to be working just fine and I don't see why it wouldn't work if the population doubled.

Just my opinion.

I spent my life working at golf courses and the majority of that time running private country clubs and you are absolutely 100% correct. Everyone that gets elected to a board has their own little agenda. Couple that with the fact that most people have never really run anything and you have a recipe for disaster. That is exactly why I left a good job at a country club and went on to teaching full time for less money.
You will always have people who think that they know better then the experts that they hire do perform certain duties. I remember having a member of the greens committee call my superintendent one day to tell him that he needed to syringe the fifth green. The committee member was a retired postal carrier. Nothing wrong with that, but he knew nothing about maintaining a golf course. He and the superintendent almost came to blows.
I also had a tournament chairman for several years that tried to set up every tournament so that there were large cash payouts for the top few teams. Of course, his teams always finished in the money.
I did have one club president for a long time who ran his own business and back us up completely. He would tell the board members to let the professionals do their jobs. Give them and idea of the outcome that you want and then let them do it. If people who get elected would take this kind of attitude governments would work a lot better. Unfortunately, they seldom do and we end up with situations like Gracie has described.

Its All Good
 

[B][/B

]This is a subject that have been the minds of many residents for a good number of years. Based on the regulations upon which this development is being built and funded the Developer has a legal obligation to relinquish control of residential districts to residents. the Developer (Villages of Lake Sumter, Inc.) will continue to own and operate the commercial district.

In order to have a government consisting of a mayor, etc The villages would need to incorporate. If The Villages incorporated then it would become a part of lady Lake, etc wherein the amenities would be open to all residents of Lake, Marion and Sumter counties.

Much to my surprise and delight I actually have come to believe that The Villages government is working quite well. In fact so far I believe it operates better than our federal government and actually knows and follows a budget. How much credit the Developer gets for this operation is unknown to me. However, if he has considerable sway then I hope he continues

As for The Villages landscaping I also believe it is being handled well. Keep in mind weeds have been prolific ll around the country due to the warm damp weather.

Concerning too big. I prefer to deal with the issues of bigness rather than the issues of abandonment because a development failed.

Gracie's comments , as usual, are not frivilous. I financed a number of large condo developments in Md , Va an NJ. Things were great while the developer was in charge and had a huge interest in keeping things under control. The problems started when the residents(erstwhile intelligentsia) took over. Their petty arguments and misguided ideas in many cases became self distructive. Most homeowners have no experience in running anything other that their own homes and families and many of the decisions were naive to say the least. Of course , the biggest , rabblerousers became a majority of the governing bodies.

Be careful what you wish for, it will happen soon enough.

Gracie, I understand you have only been here for 6 years and yes all is beautiful on the south side of 466....but the north side looks beautiful to me also.....understand 1 thing the owners still own ALL of the properties, rec. centers and softball fields south of 466 and the only reason they do is because of the on going battle with the IRS they have not yet been able to sell all these back to you south siders.....and wait until they do and you see what they want to charge you.....hmmm then we will see people open there eyes :22yikes: there is a reason why the owners became Billionaires....and as far as the brother and sister team that represented us when the owners wanted us N.siders to pay for some of there mistakes while building many years ago.....they more than deserve the $$$$$ 4 million without there service we would have NOTHING

I agree with the posts supporting the current system governing the community. It's not broken. We don't need to fix it.

However, there is an aspect of the original post that should be considered. That is to remain interested and informed about what is going on here.

And that leads me to one area I thnk the developer has an opportunity, if not an obligation, to improve. Communication. I don't think I have any right to expect them to provide information on their development plans down the road, whether it be the Fruitland Park property or property south of 44, or anywhere else. However, when they are involved in changes to existing buildings or properties or facilities, I believe they could be more forthcoming with information if it affects the residents. Examples are everywhere. What were the real reasons the buffalo were removed? More recently, the architectural plans for the Church on the Square obviously are complete as construction has begun. What would be the downside of letting the residents know how it will look when completed and what is the prospect of resuming the Sunday services there when it is done? Same questions for Orange Blossom Hiils. These are things that affect residents' lives and enjoyment of the community. Letting us know doesn't mean giving us input, but it does cut down on the rumors that are not usually complimentary to the developer's efforts. And it would reduce the angst involving changes.

A big thumbs Up for mikeod
 

:clap2::clap2:

Gracie's concerns are very legitimate. I have been on boards of two different public unit developments that pahsed from the developer to the residents. The single biggest problem is in fact dealing with folks who want this, that or the other thing purchased, built, added, bought or done away with. They have no regard for funding what so ever and like the government they don't care or are concerned.

I was the budget watchdog. I got so many personal contacts, calls, threats, offers at home at all hours of the day or night from both for and against the same projects/wants. Eventually I was over ruled by the board on a couple of major additions to amenities that required new construction. The budget would not support it....then there were future monthly amenity fee increases assumed to make the numbers come out. Lobbying by special interests within the community.....

I can assure you regardless the resident talent within a given community, the politics and problems far outweigh the sanity of reality. One of the boards I eventually wound up resigning from as they were driven by a philosophy of it did not matter if proposals wer without funding, they proceded anyway. Eventually there was an uprising in the resident membership when too many assesments were being levied for too many projects that were not for the good of the resident owned and operated developement.

Keeping the developer involved should not be a negative. The Villages run by residents may sound good, but it will be frought with issues and problems the developer does not have as they for the most part while protecting the interests of the developer are tuned to provide for the most part for the good of the majority.

Beware what you wish for!

btk

:agree::agree::agree::agree::agree::agree:

life is short
 

Life is even shorter for 55 and over. I agree I'm not going to worry.

First there is democracy in TV for example if you live in a section that is in the city of Wildwood you have that government, plus the state government, plus the US government. If your talking about VCDD then that is a form of "control" you agreed to in writing when you bought your home, its really not that much different than HOA or condo control boards in other cities and "subdivision" in the US. I would argue that the larger TV gets the better it is for the residents of TV. The larger TV is the more clout we have collectively. I also think most of the examples you state are a matter of taste and not a good example of things starting to slip for example some of the entertainment I really enjoy some I don't that doesn't mean anyone is cutting cost it just means different people have different taste

I feel sorry for people like doomsday preppers that worry about things far in the future that they have no control over anyway. So very sad. If you live in The Villages, you are on the very top of the hill so if you worry here, you are a sad case indead.

I have long said that a benevolent dictatorship is an excellent form of government; particularly if I am the dictator.

Absent that, I am comfortable with the "family" continuing to dominate how the development - for that is what this is, their development -- is going. And I don't believe the family is going away. Word is they have already acquired an additional tract of land for further development.

Graciegirl, note that up here in the far northwest end of The Villages, in Marion County, NO YARD ART is legal.

If The Villages is slowly falling apart and gets worse in the future, all you have to do is think positive. Think "charming". Run-down communities take on a certain charm of their own. :1rotfl::D:a20::):icon_wink:;)

After reading this entire post, I am really glad that I only rent at TV annually. The thing that attracted me 14 years ago was the developer's foresight and all of the amenities offered. I don't think it's as inexpensive as people (frogs) want you to believe but the concept is is terrific. That being said, if I was thinking of retiring and buying at TV I would have serious misgivings after reading this thread. You bought and moved here because of what you saw the developer was offering --------now you want to change things. Too bad, it was a great idea when there were only about 30,000 people but now you are a major city.

I believe Polo Ridge is the only Village allowing yard art. I drive through there every day and yard art is few and far between, but they have some really nice fountains and bird baths. The north end of TV is beautifully kept, have no complaints, plus I don't compare one end to the other, to each his own.:smiley:

your post reminds me of the election campaigns my favorite freeholder used to participate in...his first question to his competition went something like why did you move to the county...and the response was always something to do with because they liked it...to which the freeholder would reply then why do you want to change it?...the reply was usually a lot of stammering!

I am going to act like Congress kicking the can down the road letting children and grandkids worry about the climate change, economy and war. At 75 and counting, I am just going to enjoy wild pigeons coo and watch the beautiful sun set in the west. Can't make the sun set in east. However, if you are 55 and moving to The Villages, you'll pray the second generation of the Morse's will be caring and loving The Villages as much as we do. Don't bitch and moan for little things and work together with the developer's and be a pragmatist. Be happy for them that they are making money within reason. Eventually The Villages will become a tourist destination if you plan well and this a good thing. Developer will make more money from commercial enterprises so they won't leave. You may even get subsidies from the Tourist Bureau of Florida.

After reading this a few more times, I'm not sure that I understand the premise that The Villages will outgrow the population. What exactly does that mean?Aren't the Villages and the population one and the same?
As the population grows, the amenities, retail establishments, roads and infrastructure will continue to grow. I don't understand why anyone sees this as a problem. So what if the population of the Villages grew to a million people as long as all the the other things grew as well? How would that affect anyone?

It can be a expensive or as inexpensive as you'd like it to be. There are people who live here that have nothing but social security and they do fine. They probably never leave the compound and their entertainment and recreation is everything here that's included in the amenity fees, but so what? You can live a very nice lifestyle here very inexpensively. There are also people her with million dollar homes who have very extravagant life styles. It's all up to you and what you can afford.

Gracie, I thought The Villages were America's Friendliest Home Town! It sounds like the South (of 466) is trying to secede from the Union...we could have our own Villages civil war...North versus South! :( I have traveled north to south and east to west and it ALL looks very nice to me. Location is a personal preference and appears to be an obvious bias depending where one lives. It is a shame when we start to designate specific areas to be superior to others. This can and does start to produce cliques which destroys the true friendliness and hospitable nature of the original concept of this great community.

OH my GOODNESS. What have I done!!! I haven't read this thread for awhile. I by no means think the south is superior at all to the north. We played golf today way northwest and were saying how very beautiful the area is. People are so proud of the homes and take such good care of them and the plants and trees are mature and beautiful in the sections that have been here for more the seven or eight or ten or 12 or 20 years, in fact the older the prettier the plantings are. No one would be able to tell new from old here very easily if they drove around.

I did not mean one side was superior to the other at all. I like MORE deed restrictions and some people like less but no area is better than any other. If I made people think that I will never be able to apologize enough. I know we don't vote on anything south of 466 and that is just fine with me. I like the way things are run.

Now I will have to go back and reread this thread and see what damage I have done. Me and my big mouth.

I am so sorry for this.

It was stated that no one knows what the church on the square will look like when completed. That may be true but in order to start construction, plans had to be approved by the county and those plans are on record with the county. Anyone, for a small fee, can get a copy of those plans. But I think I'll just wait for construction to be completed and be surprised. Maybe that's what the developer wants, for everyone to be surprised. :thumbup:

I think this issue is a lot more complicated than people are seeing it, and the OP may be justifiably concerned. The differences between the old and new sections are not so much the quality of homes and amenities, but differences in demographics. Let’s assume, just for illustration, that most folks retire at around age 62. So the population north of 441 would be in their 90’s, north of 466 in their 80’s, between 466 and 466a would be in their 70’s, and south of 466a would be in their 60’s. Now, when all the new homes are bought, only resales will be available. As the oldest population expires, the bulk of the resales will be in the northern villages. On the other hand, the bulk of the new retirees will be baby boomers in their 60’s. So, are these new retirees, say over the next decade, going to be happy moving into older homes that are surrounded by people 20-30 years older? And, if they choose to pass on The Villages for that reason, what will happen to all those homes for sale in the older sections?

I have seen this, on a much smaller scale, in our south FL condo. When the last survivor passes on, the heirs dump the unit for half its value. The next owners are either young divorcees, or landlords, who do not give a hoot about maintaining the place. When we finally retired, we ended up being the youngest retirees, in our mid 60’s. Thank goodness that we discovered The Villages.

Now, you could argue that it can’t happen here, and I hope that it’s true. But elements of this scenario are almost unavoidable, over the long run.

Many young people are buying in the older sections.

And vice versa. Our neighborhood south of 466 has people in their 50's, 60's, 70's, 80's, and someone 90. It's a nice mix of people and we have a thriving social club that everyone enjoys. So I think the scenario above is an oversimplification.

Less
 

A concern I have is the small changes currently taking place and how do they may point to the future? When I say changes. Since we moved to The Villages a few years ago the entertainment controls have been moved to a person in Orlando who has no real anchor in The Villages. Then the arbitrary cancelling of the parades without any avenue for the thousands who had participated and the thousands who enjoyed them having any power to turn the decision around. There has been a minimum of authorizations passed on to the organizers but just enough to put the fear in that if they complained they could lose all. Then as you ride around in your cart you can see the small changes in keeping the landscaping up, (e.g. lack of punctual trimming of the bushes and weeding, etc.). All of this led up to the ultimate recognition of what can happen by the building of a wall that was so unpopular and disliked that only through the threats of lawsuits, petitions, etc. was it taken down. These actions prompt the thought that if these can happen what may be waiting in the future with no plans. Who is pulling the strings and why are they pulling these. We continue to love The Villages and have no intention of leaving and have faith that somehow there will be corrections to these misses. :ho:

Gracie: I read your post and I did not get a message from it that you thought that us folks residing south of 466 were superior to those living north of 466. Not at all!! Hey, those north TVer's have lots of money to maintain and improve their quality of life. The new improved Trails are a good example, however, we can all enjoy them no matter where you live in TV.

I do think previous comments for the need for better communications from the Developer is valid for the reasons given. I would be among the first to defend the rights of a private enterprise who assumes "risk" to reap the rewards of such "risk"---that's what makes America great.

However, I see additional transparently as a mutual benefit for both the Developer and the residents of TV. Perhaps there are times when its best to hold your "cards close to your chest" until it's time to play them----that too is understood in a private enterprise situation. It's smooth sailing when the Captain and the crew work together to sail the ship into port.

You misunderstood. You can find many threads documenting that what village you live in or what kind of home you live in has NO bearing on how you are treated or thought of. I have been asked where I live and feel confident that is just simple small talk and has nothing to do with putting me into a class. What you say applies to everyone in the real world, but not here. We in The Villages may very well judge our neighbors on their character but not on the color or location of their home. CLIQUES or interest groups are mandatory in a community of 100,000 people. Since you cannot go to dinner with or have 100,000 folks oner for games at your house, I strongly recommend you form smaller groups of those that like the same kind of food or game that you do. Broaden your taste and interests and we all will find our own niche or group or clique.