Joggers have the Right-of-Way?
 

Should one driving a golf cart on a specifically designated Golf Cart and Bicycle path on a main artery, like Morse Blvd., be expected to go into automobile traffic and risk being hit by a car?

I have had to just come to a complete stop in the diamond lane because a walker wouldn't take one step onto the grass and there were cars coming in the traffic lane. Once I stopped, they had to move over to get by.

Were they coming toward you against the flow of traffic? I had one on Morse blvd doing that so I just stopped my cart to a dead stop and pointed to the direction of traffic as he had to go in the grass to go around. I wasn't about to abruptly go into the traffic lane and get hit. If they are going the same direction I slow down behind them then pass when it's safe.

First of all they should NEVER be jogging, running or walking in the same direction as traffic, they are asking to get hit. If they are coming towards me I too stop and point to the grass, if they are going in same direction I try to tell them they are on the wrong side....that is not a good idea however unless you don't mind getting swear words shouted at you. And no I will not pull out n traffic to avoid them.

When I was little I was taught that pedestrians should get out of the way of anything larger and more powerful. Apparently some of the dingbats on foot around TV have a force field that will protect them.

As in boating, a general rule of thumb is anything larger than you has the right of way!!!

Pedestrians normally have the right of way -- even if going the wrong way or doing something else illegal like jaywalking. Most of the walkers/joggers I see on Morse get on the grass when they see a golf cart coming. The few that don't will get me to stop but the dirty look I give them is not a pleasant thing to behold.

If I am behind them, I have no problem waiting until it is safe to pass. If they are joggling and coming toward me, I usually pull into the grass a little so they can keep their stride and stay on a smooth surface

I would pull in the grass but it bounces my drink all over the cart!

Get one of those hats that holds your drink and has the long straw hanging out. Works for me.

I agree that we should yield to JOGGERS, but JOGGERS, please don't demand that right if it makes you DEAD right. There are a lot of folks that should not be driving but are.

Let's try to show a little courtesy. What if we replace "jogger" with Lady in a Walker, Man with a Cane, Guy carrying his golf clubs or Mom Pushing a Stroller? Is there any question what you would do?

I've been running here for 3 years and, fortunately, everybody I've encountered out there on paths has been polite to me as I have been to them.

:BigApplause:

Courtesy has been on the down hill slide here for the past few years.
When we first arrived in the villages everyone in golf carts waved said hello
Rarely happens any more so sad

Hey, yeah. I forgot about those. Thanks.

I cycle a lot on MUPs (multi use paths) outside TV, such as the Withlacoochee Stat Trail. The order of precedence for MUPs is horseback riders have right of way first, followed by pedestrians, then cyclists. It seems that the most vulnerable get the highest deference.

Hello OMT,

I would like to preface my response by mentioning that I run 30-35 miles a week here in TV.

IMO, the answer to your question is self evident, a GC driver should not be expected to go into automobile traffic and risk being hit. Whether it is to avoid a runner, walker, pet or wild life.

However a piece of advice given to me by my father as he was teaching me to drive "Remember, as a driver, no one can take right-of-way, they can only give it", has remained with me to this day.

I suppose, if while driving, you felt you have the right-of-way then you will need to make you decisions accordingly.

Folks on foot are better prepared to avoid a potentially serious accident if they are walking/running facing traffic.

With that in mind, when I encounter a GC approaching me and I am in a diamond lane I will get out of their way if a motor vehicle is even reasonably close to the back of them. It has been my experience GC drivers are not bothered by my approaching them in a diamond lane as long as I acknowledge their approaching and they know I am yielding to them. Most GC drivers, even when I have vacated the diamond lane, will move toward the middle of the road and give a smile and wave and I do the same in return.

As a GC driver, if a runner was approaching me in the diamond lane and did not indicate any intention to "share" the space, I would stop before I put either of us in danger. In my mind the question of "who has right-of-way" is not a consideration. With that said, I would also make an attempt to share my feelings about the situation with the runner, in as positive manner as possible..:cus:

Anticipating the question of why am I running in the diamond lane when there are sidewalks? For me it comes down to the surface.... concrete is much harder on joints than blacktop. There are only two choices, concrete or blacktop in surfaces here in TV for more dedicated, long distance runners. Been running seriously for 35+ years, and now approaching 76 years old, I find I need to do what I can to extend my favorite pastime.

Finally, you mentioned specifically Morse Blvd. My own personal experience from running roads like MB, BV, 466 and 466A carries many more risks than rewards and I try to avoid those roads as much as possible. The speed difference between runners and GC/motor vehicles on those roads is just too great! The slow one will always loose when they touch!

As runner I understand where you are coming from and I think handling the situation you describe requires mature, "big-picture" actions by both parties.

Regards,
Don

PS, If I don't get out of your way fast enough, please don't run me down. I have promised our daughter we will run a 10k race together for my 100th birthday and I don't want to disappoint her..:thumbup:

GF?

I'm also a runner who has been running for over 30 years and run about 20 miles a week now. I also do my best to NOT run on the sidewalks for the same reason you mentioned. On occasion I get drivers in the golf carts yelling at me to "get on the sidewalk" but they have no idea what they're demanding. What's interesting is usually these golf carts are going by me at a very high rate of speed that I'm estimating is well over the 19 mph limit.

I also run against traffic unless there is a blind corner ahead of me and then I'll switch to run WITH traffic until I get past it usually around the tunnels. People have no idea how hard, hot, and difficult it may be running but yet sometimes they'll demand you move out of their way while they sit comfortably in their golf cart going by you. I really sometimes just want to say....Seriously?

I do my utmost best to be a considerate runner as an approaching cart comes my way. If there is a car falling fairly close behind them, I jump on the sidewalk so they don't have to worry about me and the car behind them. Then I jump back down. That can be hard on the knees so I try only to do it for these times. Outside of that I run close to the curb as possible to give them as much room as possible as they go by. When I do this, I'm actually not even on the blacktop but on the cement lip below the sidewalk. Sometimes that's not enough and I get choice words sent my way as they pass me. Most of the time I have to chuckle because there's nobody on the road but me and this person.

What do you mean by "a diamond lane?"

On Morse blvd and a few other streets in TV there is a smaller lane on the right hand side going both directions. They are the golf cart lanes. they may also be used by pedestrians, bicycles, and other modes of transport. Golf carts are to stay right of the line unless they signal to safely come into the left lane to turn left just as a car would switch to the left lane to turn left. Hope I helped.

Its jay walking pure and simple
 

The diamond lanes are not designated for runners but for golf carts and bikes and as such runners should move to safer ground.

I cannot tell you the number of times a runner coming toward me has challenged who will blink first.

I am very concerned about having to pull left into traffic. You can bet if a car strikes me that runner won't be lurking around.

My accident may in fact have a direct affect on his/her breaking a new running record.

I really don't care how hard a surface is on their legs that is not my problem its theirs to deal with and to find a sensible solution. I am concerned with my safety and that of other drivers.

IF THE LOCAL POLICE MONITOR TOTV THEN PLEASE CONSIDER ISSUING CITATION TO RUNNERS WHO PLACE PEOPLE IN DANGER BY ILLEGALLY UTLIZING THE DIAMOND LANE. IT IS TANTAMOUNT TO JAY WALKING AND SHOULD BE SUBJECT TO A FINE.

Rubicon...Did you ever think about just stopping until the lone runner goes by? Two seconds. All that is necessary is to lift your foot off the pedal. That's it. Wave while you're at it. It will make our day.

There is actually enough room for both cart and runner on those lanes without the cart actually going into the car traffic. The few times I've run on Morse Blvd I've gone into the grassy area when an upcoming cart approaches but there might be a spot or two where that might be a problem. Also when a runner is putting in a lot of mileage sometimes they find themselves on the roadways because there's isn't enough golf cart paths to run on. We do our best to stay on the paths but sometimes a mile or two is needed to get ourselves onto the next path and out of major traffic. We would rather run with as little traffic as possible as that is the ideal but for various reasons that's not always doable. There isn't that many runners out there for this to be an issue.

I have yet to hear of one accident caused by a runner. But I've heard of many accidents caused by golf carts GOING TOO FAST.

First: One poster used the term a few times Right-Away. I can only assume they meant Right-of-way? It was a good post but I was curious as to the expression used. Maybe I've been wrong all these years?

Second: Most of the streets south of 466 that have diamond lanes also have sidewalks. So when I run/walk I use the sidewalks even though I may jump into an empty diamond lane (facing traffic of course) if it is empty since the asphalt is more forgiving than concrete.

Third: On streets with no diamond lane (all my small neighborhood streets) there is very seldom enough traffic to worry about. There is plenty of room for the car/cart to move toward the center a little and give me the edge of the road. Haven't had a problem yet in 2 years.

FYI, I will quote a section of Florida law, as it pertains to pedestrians:

316.130(3) states: "Where sidewalks are provided, no pedestrian shall, unless required by other circumstances, walk along and upon the portion of a roadway paved for vehicular traffic."

This suggests that it is OK to walk in the diamond lanes on Morse north of 466, but not on the south side.

The applicable Florida statute is 316.130(3), as I indicated in the message above this one, if there is no available sidewalk, the pedestrian may walk on the roadway. Therefore, dependent on the circumstances, it may be legal.

The golf cart lanes are not part of the roadway for vehicular traffic per the law. Law enforcement go by and wave to me all the time when I'm running. They don't stop me and quote this law. I'm not in the street. I'm on the golf cart lane running alongside the sidewalk. This is unique to The Villages. I've run all over the country and never ever have had so much trouble running along the side of the road as here and we have the best lanes of all for running on. Sure we have to share with Golf Carts. That's the problem. Golf cart drivers are in a hurry and do not wish to share their portion of the road with us runners. And like I said there are NOT that many out there for this to be such an issue.

The sidewalks are for walkers. When I'm running quite often I pass by people walking on the sidewalks. Sometimes they're walking their grandkids or their dogs. For me to run on the sidewalks means to constantly go up and down to get around them not to mention it's the worse possible surface to run on. It's much easier for a golf cart to just pass me by. There's plenty of room and most of the time there are no other cars behind them for them to worry about.

Fixed it, supposed to have been GC.....my iPhone has a mind of it's own sometimes..:laugh:

Remember that the next time you pass a semi truck and hit the brakes ...

Whatever happened to running in your neighborhood....why the street....That makes about as much sense to me as the people who park in the street...We need a common sense law !

Age is the difference...That's why you always hear that the people on the older side is much nicer !!!

My neighborhood has a one mile circle in both directions. The most I can do is 2 miles but even some of that will end up on O'Dell as I loop around. When I go out to do a seven mile run it's not possible unless I want to run around and around my neighborhood which would be tedious to say the least. Not to mention I run five days a week.

Most runs are out and back. If I do a six miler I go out three miles, turn around and come home. I live over by the Amelia PO. So for me I have to run over the Morse Bridge and back to get in 6 miles. If I go in the other direction I run to Captivia and back or Gators and back is another route. Most of the run is on golf cart paths but in between roads have to be used.

So back to common sense. In order for distance runners to run effectively sometimes they have no choice to run on the roads which makes the most logical sense to get the distance in.

If you run 5-7 miles per day that an awful lot of the same streets to run if you don't at least go down some of the semi-main roads to get to other locations.

I have many, many patients who live on the 'older side'. Believe me: Not ALWAYS nicer. :)

But in general most TV'ers are very pleasant, in or out, of the hospital.

Hi Dawn Marie: Have you ever heard of a vehicle being rear ended because someone other vehicle stopped abruptly.

Have you ever studied risks? Because if you have the only method of preventing an accident is to remove or reduce those elements that may create an accident.

Someone could store gas in their garage for years but suddenly one day the gas ignites. Some one charges their electric cart every day for years but suddenly a fire erupts.

Runners desire to use the diamond lanes causes drivers to react and no one cares until a jogger is run down or a golf cart pulls into the path of a vehicle behind him.

I studies risk all my career and people just don't fully appreciate how in an instant their lives are altered forever.

Personal Best Regards:

No.......sailboats have the right of way, regardless of size. Yeah, if you have something huge bearing down on you, rule of thumb comes into play.

Sadly, from reading the many posts in this thread, it appears to me that the only certain solution is an impractical one that will never happen. Several lanes on each main road designated for each type of user (i.e automotive, golf cart, bicycle, walker, and jogger). That would be five lanes in each direction. Completely nuts! So, we are left with the need to make do with what we have, which entails equally good doses of common sense and courtesy. Let's not get hurt, nor hurt anyone else out there.

Let's face it. There are all sorts of risks involving driving. You could have a seizure or a heart attack as well. So you might as well not drive to be on the safe side.

Runners running against traffic cuts down any major risk involved. Like I've already said...I've not heard of one runner causing an accident in the Villages but have heard of many accidents caused by speeding golf carts. So why don't we eliminate the greater risk by getting rid of the carts? If that's your argument, that makes the most common sense doesn't it?

A cart is NOT going to pull into the path of a vehicle when I'm running. I've already stated that when I see a cart coming towards me with a car on its tail I jump on the sidewalk to give the cart plenty of room (even tho I really don't have to..I'm not that big) so the driver doesn't have to watch me and the car behind him at the same time. Besides all that, a cart does have another option if a car is bearing down on him from behind with an upcoming runner. He can take his foot off the pedal and stay right in the lane until either the runner or car passes...like I said...two seconds.

I've run all over the country and have coached at the HS level for years back home. Again, I've NEVER heard of one instance even when a HS kid caused an accident. I think the problem here really..to be honest...is the fact that golf cart drivers come face to face with an upcoming runner unlike when you're driving a car and they just don't like it. Before, in a car, it didn't matter because the runner was on the side of the road and not in the road so it didn't matter. Now, both cart driver and runner have to share the same territory and the cart drivers are incensed about it.

Some serious runners I have encountered seem to exhibit a rather strange attitude.
And that attitude is this: There is absolutely nothing in the entire universe that is more important than a runner being able to maintain their chosen pace, never having to break stride, slow down, or (heaven forbid) stop until their run is complete. Stop signs, traffic lights, etc. do not apply to them. Other pedestrians, bicycles, golf carts, other motorized vehicles all should yield to these runners.
So if you are driving your golf cart down the diamond lane and encounter one of these types coming right at you, do not expect them to get out of the way. They are way more important than you are. After all they are engaged in being healthy. And you are not.
Be aware.