What are the details?
 

President Obama signed his executive order regarding some illegal immigrants. We have seen posts on here bemoaning 11 million illegal immigrants getting free health insurance, voting cards, driver licenses, or other things.

What are the real details of the executive order?

There have been other posts that said compassion means to do nothing for these people like give them the legal opportunity to work but that they knew they would live in a shadow society and be paid substandard wages to do jobs that Americans will not do. Is this the compassion our churches teach us? Is this the compassion we have taught our children and they pass onto their children?

Reality is that there has always been little compassion for immigrants, legal or otherwise. Think back to "Irish need not apply," and so on. It really is a sink or swim society.

These new immigrants make it hard for us and themselves. They do not want to become Americans. They do nothing to assimilate into our culture. Instead, we cater to them with Spanish speaking television, phones, schools, businesses. Previous immigrants here were forced to learn English. They wanted to become part of this nation. They did not plan to ever return to their native land. That is not the case today. There is no effort to learn anything but the very basics of English. The goal is to send money home every month and to return to their native countries when they can.

Most of these immigrants are good, hard working people. They suffer extreme deprivation to get here. They truly have my sympathy but if they don't want to become Americans, then I can see no reason to support them with medical, education, etc. Until they show that they want to assimilate, to speak English, to have a goal of becoming a U.S. citizen, I think they have chosen their spot in our society as harsh as that may sound.

Let's see who captured my compassion this past week. It is a toss up between the homeless Vietnam Vet who was covered head to toe with bedbug bites from the horrific shelter he is living in. The other was an 84 year old Vet who has a bedsore the size of an orange caused by lack of the ability of his elderly wife who is his only caretaker to properly bath and turn him, and he is not eligible to additional homecare because of lack of program funding.

Sorry, but my compassion quotient is already exhausted from these two most deserving individuals and the countless other Vets who risked their lives for our freedom that continue to experience hunger, homelessness, and lack of necessary healthcare.

Sorry, but I think that the phrase, "jobs that Americans won't do", is a complete myth perpetrated by those who use these people to avoid higher payrolls and paying taxes.

There are plenty of uneducated, unskilled Americans with no hope of a future that would do these jobs. There are plenty of young people who have been in trouble with the law that could be placed into programs that would give them a place to stay and a job as opposed to putting them in juvenile centers where they learn more about how to commit crimes. We also have plenty of incarcerated individuals that could be made to be useful members of society while earning themselves some money or paying part of the cost of their incarceration.

We still have an unemployment problem in this country, a crime problem and a huge failure of our educational system. These factors would provide plenty of workers to do menial labor.

Who picked out vegetables before we had this big illegal immigration problem?

As redwitch said, as a society we have sometimes not been very welcome to immigrants. But over time, those that have come here legally have assimilated and are accepted. I don't know that that will ever change.

My wife is an immigrant and a legal permanent resident. It took a lot of work and money to get her here. The process is much too difficult and needs to be fixed. It's easier for some to come here illegally than to come legally.

AS far as compassion goes, I don't find it very compassionate to allow this situation to continue as is. These people flock here illegally and then get used and abused. That needs to stop. We need to seal our borders.

As far as the 11 million that are here, I have no problem with doing something to help them out. But, we need to look at every case individually. Some like to tell stories of kids that were brought here by their parents when they were young and have lived here all their lives. Or of poor people simply looking for a way to survive. It's true that those people exist in the illegal population. Many are people who have over stayed their visa and just need to do a bit of paperwork to get squared.

But there is also a criminal element among the illegals. Drugs dealers and gangsters who need to be dealt with as well. There are many here that want to do us harm and want to use our citizens to further their illegal activities. They need to be imprisoned or deported.

I see no reason why we can't be sealing our borders and dealing with the individual cases at the same time. The influx has to stop.

I can remember a few years back where we wintered in Mexico, a young man named Daniel who told me he wanted to go to the USA illegally so he could raise money to buy his folks a home without dirt floors. He said it would cost $7500usd. When I asked him what the $$ was for he said $2500 was to pay off the Mexican border people and $5000 was to pay off the American border patrol. Now years later he works at a hotel in Cancun...but he's learned English!

[B[I]]Quote[/B] Sandtrap.There have been other posts that said compassion means to do nothing for these people like give them the legal opportunity to work but that they knew they would live in a shadow society and be paid substandard wages to do jobs that Americans will not do. Is this the compassion our churches teach us? Is this the compassion we have taught our children and they pass onto their children[/I]?[/QUOTE]

I have said this to my own children when they were younger and we did not have a lot. Do not confuse emotion with what we can afford to do in this house. We cannot take your friend in to live, no matter how sad it is. We have to take care of the children in this house first.

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I have said this to my own children when they were younger and we did not have a lot. Do not confuse emotion with what we can afford to do in this house. We cannot take your friend in to live, no matter how sad it is. We have to take care of the children in this house first.

.[/QUOTE]


Nice post but it does not answer the question of "is this the compassion we are taught in church" or what we want our children to teach to their children.

Remember also, the SNAP program was dramatically cut for the feeding of American citizen children. I see the results of this every week at the food pantry where, yes, there are some illegal immigrants who are clients as well as many citizen families. There is a large drawing of Jesus at the pantry. What would He do?

I really wish the news would do a special on how many jobs that US companies have created in Mexico. I just read that GM is building another 5 billion dollar plant in Mexico. I have been to Monterey, Mexico and seen "Little Detroit", not so little. Why do they need to come to the US when we go there to give them jobs.

Compassion has been addressed to some extent. How about the details of the executive order. Does it apply to all 11 million in the US? No! Does it provide voting cards? No! Do the 4 million get access to the Affordable Care Act? No! Do they now have the ability to work legally and pay taxes? Yes!

As for states who allow illegal immigrants to obtain driver licenses, good! They, like other non-licensed drivers, will most likely drive anyhow. I would much rather have them licensed and insured if they are on the roads.

If they, like any drug dealer or criminal gets arrested, put them in prison and then, if illegal, deport them after serving their time.

I was told an analogy once about the US being a melting pot. It used to be like an overcooked soup where everything was blended together so all the ingredients tasted the same. Now, it it like a flavorful stew where chunks and pieces all have some of their original flavor but come together for a wonderful tasting new dish.

Quote SANDTRAP
Nice post but it does not answer the question of "is this the compassion we are taught in church" or what we want our children to teach to their children.

Remember also, the SNAP program was dramatically cut for the feeding of American citizen children. I see the results of this every week at the food pantry where, yes, there are some illegal immigrants who are clients as well as many citizen families. There is a large drawing of Jesus at the pantry. What would He do?[/QUOTE]


Anything I say on this forum has been taught to my children.


I believe in it. It is MY values. Perhaps it isn't your values. There are many who do good things silently........and many who never do good things. Only Jesus knows what he would do.

You cannot make people moral through legislation. Doing good things with other peoples money without their consent is not right in my book. If everyone took care of their own WHO COULD take care of their of their own we would not find ourselves moralizing to each other.

...is it possibly so the huge corporations can get very cheap labor instead of paying good wages to Americans in America and also avoid taxes?

Yes it is possible.

I for one think we should give large corporations tax breaks so that they can employ people in this country and continue to make the products we buy.

I personally do not think the scenario and question being asked regarding compassion is the heart of the issue.

It assumes the current condition and completely ignores the cause that until stopped will only add to the roles of those who the compassion is being directed.

Why should there be any change whatsoever to the existing law which is not being enforced? How big would the problem be if the law were enforced instead of looking the other way or ignoring it in it's entirety?

Why are the immigration laws treated differently at our southern border than they are at the north, east and western borders?

Why are the visas not enforced as they are for many of our neighbors here in TV from Canada and other countries?

Just to iterate a few of the many questions that remain unanswered.

This subject just like the ACA was unpopular with and not supported overwhelmingly by the American public by landslide magnitude numbers, yet our law makers (our representatives?) go forth and implement anyway.
Just how is that allowed to happen in a democratic society made up of we the people and the representatives are elected to serve and represent we the people?

No I do not buy into being limited to address compassion which may or may not be warranted. Where has the cry for compassion been for the last 20 years?

As others have posted above where is the cry for compassion for those born here or here legally that have the same or worse needs?
And to ignore the issue of compassion for our veterens with all the health care issues, non care, homeless, living in the streets, unemplyed.....and on and on.

No more compassion from me than I have been asked to provide the same folks for the last 20 years. No compassion from me until I see that American and legalized citizens (one in the same!) of the USA are taken care of first.

Like very many things needed today....compassion begins at home.

I don't think I would get too much back lash from those in the church audience.

We know that one of the issues that sets our southern input aside and different from the other borders is there are so many million already here!
We also know that as this population matures, has children and they have children.....some will obviously become citizens by the existing laws and hence will become voters!!!! (a subject for a political forum....somewhere!)

My compassion goes to my daughter and her Jamaican husband that have spent thousands of dollars to get him here legally and have been working on this for well over a year. If they could have somehow brought him in illegally they would be living happily ever after cause once you are here and married it is much easier. Have taught her to play by the rules and she is learning how it can bite you in the arse. So no I don't have much compassion for the line jumpers.

I think that there are about 4.5 MILLION in the same boat