As long as people insist on overtipping, servers and their bosses will expect customers to overtip.

The only way we can bring tipping back under control, is if everyone agrees to do so.

I do my part. But my input means nothing without the concerted effort of everyone else.

Sadly, the standard is 20% for service ... any service. We find excuses to not blame the server, the only one that really spends any time with you. Oh, they have so many tables, the kitchen screwd up the order, the server had to bring it out. Sorry, I said rare, not blackend. Now when waiter tells chef the customer sent it back, I'm the bad guy, when she took the order, she gave it to the chef and should have seen it was wrong before picking it up. Don't fret dear. I'll eat the shoe. It's not your fault. 20% tip.

Yep! 😉

Worse still! The restaurant is not just scamming us into subsidizing one employee, we're subsidizing the whole business? Probably the boss gets the biggest cut. After all, the boss is the boss, righ?😧😡🤬

You will be happy to know that tips are not solicited or expected at the grocery store. Perhaps rather than putting up with the poor preparation and service you should cook for yourself and do it right the first time.

It’s a bit humorous that you feel terribly scammed by being forced to choose how much tip to leave. This implies you would feel better if the restaurant simply added 25% to the price of each item. Maybe that would work the next time you eat out; “Look, I don’t agree with tipping so just add a 25% inflation fee to my bill and I’ll pay that.”

Probably part time job to pick up extra money. Student or retired or part of owners family. Not unusual.

True. So, when is National No MoreTip Day. I'm ready to reset to open and honest business practices with no pushing responsibility of on the poor, gullible and unsuspecting customer who just wants something to eat. 😋🤗🤢🤮

I suspect you might be part of the problem. The 20% that I normally leave (even though I feel like a sucker every time), you have just suggested a 25% raise to 25% from 20%.
As for grocery store, I like to choose my own food, and I enjoy cooking. I'm a pretty fair cook and familiar with several styles of cooking. My biggest claim to fame is that I haven't poisoned anyone ... yet. 😒

I don’t understand “you feel like a sucker every time”.
You could join the club “Those people who work low paying restaurant jobs should be made feel they are the suckers.”
They choose not to better themselves. Their life should be punished by taking insults, cleaning up the mess, and still smile and say thank you for the punishment.

Maybe instead of feeling like a sucker you could not tip, and smile the rest of the day, knowing you put the person, staff, and the corporation in their place. You aren’t ever going to see them again so just add -0- in the tip line. No more sucker syndrome.

I watched a table of four golfers with that mindset, leaving .31 tip, so the club definitely exists. Or maybe just eat at the drive through, that will teach those who work those restaurant jobs. They chose poorly.

This is what I was going for in my post too. If I order a burger and drink water then the waiter gets screwed. If I order a cocktail, appetizer, fancy main, and a bottle of $$ wine then I get screwed. Yeah yeah it's more work but considering the fancy meal is 4X the tip it's not even close to 4X the work.

And sometimes I honestly just want water and a burger!

Joe

So what system do you propose that won't leave someone feeling they were screwed?

1. You show above how our current system of tipping based on the price of the food screws someone.

2. We could go to a flat fee per table, maybe $40 for a four-top, but then you will feel screwed when you eat alone but get charged the same amount as the table of four next to you.

3, Perhaps a flat, per-person charge of $10 but that just reverses #1 - the diner gets screwed for ordering just the burger and water and the waiter gets screwed by the picky, needy diner.

4. Perhaps no fee or tipping at all where the owner increases prices 20% which goes directly into the hourly wage of the waiter but then they both get screwed when the diner essentially leaves a 20% tip regardless of the quality of the service and the waiter who gets the crazy busy shift earns no more than the waiter who served only a single customer who ate only a burger and water.

It feels like the push by the non-tippers is for #4 but I expect it won't be nearly as attractive when menu prices are raised to pay for it.

Tippng is optional and the amount is determined by the customer. No one needs to get screwed. If you feel like you are getting screwed, then you are tipping too much. Just reduce the tip amount.

$5 for lunch. $10 for dinner (cash) for two. That's more than enough for TV restaurants.

I fail to see how this relates to tipping. If a business fails, how is that the fault of the customer?

I wonder what would happen if tipping simply became illegal, and everyone would have to be paid the minimum wage at the least.

I always tip very generously. I feel i need to be among the wanna-be Frank Sinatras of the Villages.

I generally tip 20% up to a max of $5.

I refuse to pay some uneducated dolt with limited ambition to do nothing more than bring plates to my table. Its time to build some tuxedo clad robots and get rid of waitstaff.

Most people have no idea what the term Tip even means….
To Insure Prompt service

I tip based on the quality of the service (not the food) however a good server will check the food before bringing it out to make sure it is correct.

If you can not afford to leave a decent tip (20%) then stay home and eat.

WOW…. Just Wow 🤯

Can't argue with that, but please see post #102

That is why you should always tip in cash. Leave the ethics up to the waitstaff - but they'll typically keep the cash tips and not share them, or claim they only got "x" cash tips and kick in a percentage of what they claimed they got, instead of what they actually got.

When the tip is part of a credit/debit card charge, the employees don't receive the tip until the manager has divvied it up and gives it to them (or includes it in their paycheck a week later).

I have no problem tipping waitstaff as long as they've done an adequate job of serving.

My problem is with overtipping, and undertipping. Undertipping tells the wait staff that you're cheap, and don't deserve good service next time. Overtipping tells the wait staff that they need to fight over who gets to serve you next time you're in, and tells the manager that he's paying the waitstaff enough, since they have you to make up the difference.

If you have BAD service, don't tip at all. Tell the manager why.

If you have amazing service, tip 20% or even 22%, and tell the manager why.

If you have good, but not amazing service, 18% is sufficient.

If you have only the minimum required service, not bad, but not even good, then 15% is sufficient.

When waitstaff are constantly overtipped, they start expecting it, and start treating normal regular tippers like crap. "Why did table 6 only tip me 20%? What did I do WRONG?" is not something you should EVER expect a server to think.

To clarify, Federal law states that any tip received by a "tipped" employee, as defined by the IRS, is the property of the tipped employee. If any of that money is required to be shared with any non-tipped employee or management it is theft and a violation of Federal law. It is legal for a restaurant to require tipped employees to pool their tips to be shared with other tipped employees, but no one else can receive the pooled money.

Did I read that correctly? Max $5???? So $200,300,400 meal and they get $5?????

I’m for #4 all day long. Employer pays what it takes to get the workforce they need and the price is the price, none of this nebulous tipping bull****. The current state is just ridiculous for everyone. I mean, hey, I have busy days at work just like anybody else but I’m paid by the day. I like your list of options though!

Joe

Thank you for being a first responder, but I am sure that you made a lot more money per hour than the wait staff makes.

Would you rather pay the welfare bill for those "uneducated dolts" as you call them?

Always tip in cash and leave the ethics up to the waitstaff while fully expecting the waitstaff to cheat on their taxes???? Sounds like exactly the reason to NEVER tip in cash!

I never had a waitstaff job - I never received my pay the day I earned it - I always waited until payday. Worked well enough for me.

I agree. With a $36 trillion debt, I cannot understand why some people want to help others to cheat on their taxes, and to hide income from their employer.

We had a whole lot more responsibility and stress as well. Delivering plates and drinks, is not the same as delivering babies, wreck casualties, fire victims etc.

I don't see that assumption at all.
Tp me, it is a simple suggestion of why people may choose that work as opposed to other jobs. The earning potential is very good compared to many routine daily 8hr, 40hr per week job options.

I get you. One customer has $10.00 burger and water. Server brings one glass and one plate. Second customer orders filet mignon, with Yukon gold potatoes and roaster asparagus bottle of Chateau du Pape. $ 84. 99. Server brings one bottle, one glass and one plate. Bottle delivery added 50% to servers delivery. 20% tip? For the burger and water, $2. For the steak and wine, $17. An increase of $15. Labor mark up for one bottle. (850% increase)

Making things illegal doesn't stop it. Tipping is a habit that needs to be broken, an expectation that needs to be changed, a scam that needs to be exposed, and a business model that need to be replaced.

I see nothing wrong in a simple showing of appreciation. But when a pleasant little gift/surprise turns into an expectation that forms a significant part of a business strategy that demands customers pay a significant part of employee wages, that, in my book is a scam. Devoid of conscience, ethics, honesty.

Those two statements are mutually exclusive.

Nice way to speak about others. Your mother would be proud.

ROBOTS! Cool! 👾🤖

Just who do you think pays all (certainly a significant part) of employee wages for any business?

Last night we went to one of our favorite restaurants UpNorth. It's part of a large restaurant group like FMK, but larger.

Back during Covid, they reduced the number of tables by 50% and installed plexiglass in the booths, and obviously business suffered. They added a 4% "surcharge" to the bill to help them cope with the lost profit. It inconspicuously stated on the bottom of the check that you could have the surcharge removed upon request, but most patrons either
1. didn't notice the surcharge was even there, or
2. didn't know there was an option to remove it, or
3. gladly paid it to help support the restaurant during tough times.

#3 was certainly the most common, and the category we fell into. It only amounted to a few bucks on a typical $125 bill, so I was happy to help them cope, even though no one felt the need to help my business during the 3 months we had to shut down, nor the subsequent 4 months where volume was well below normal, but I digress.

Well 5 years later, that stupid surcharge is still on the bill "to help with rising costs". Sorry, not paying it, and I haven't since 2021. If you need to add 4% to every entree, I'm still gonna order what I want, but don't nickel and dime me with BS. I have mentioned how insulting I find it to the manager, but all you get is that it's corporate policy and just ask to remove it if you don't want to pay it.

I went to a restaurant in Taipei last year and they had robot servers to deliver food. It was pretty cool. The kitchen put your food on the robots and they delivered it to your table. But they still had human servers taking orders answering questions and clearing dishes and they still got tipped (at the Taiwanese customary rate).

There also seems to be some expectation that if a diner is "needy", the tip should be larger.

Don't be needy. Don't be a jerk.

But keep in mind that
your MD doesn't get paid more for needy patients....
your lawyer doesn't get paid more for needy clients...
your retail sales person doesn't get paid more for needy customers...
etc

Company offers a product/service for $. I give them $, they give me product/service. Company makes profit. Profit is divided to cover cost of business, such as materials, rent, employee wages or salaries. Successful busines survive, unsuccessful business closes.
Only restaurant not pay some employee proper. Expect pass rresponsibility for covering employee full pay to be "tip/gift" from customer. Embarrassing customer by defamation. "Tightwad, cheapskate, unsympathetic to poor, underpaid employee, no good meannie ahole". Shame shame business owner cheat employee and make customer look bad. Shameless business owner cheat employee and guilt trip, defame customer.
Yes, I do go out on occasion and I tip. Nut I still think it's wrong. Roboserice? I hope my accent doesn't screw up my odaa.

You were also not making minimum wage with no benefits, paid only for the hours you actually work, no breaks, no life insurance, and no opportunity for full-time work or promotion unless someone quit or died.