Like GracieGirl and Russ, I agree that people are meant to eat some meat, but much less than what most Americans eat now. Meat can be an accompaniment to vegetables, fruits, legumes and grains. Not the other way around.

My purpose in posting the trailer to the film "Food Inc." is not to promote vegetarianism or veganism or any other "ism". The film addresses lots of issues about our food, including the way corn products have become additives in foods, where you would least expect to find corn!

The film does address the poor way, both nutritionally and humanely, that beef, pork and chicken is farmed in our country. You may know that several foreign countries have banned the import of meat from the U.S. because it is no longer fit for human consumption, despite of what the USDA claims.

So, besides the inhumane treatment of our food animals, there are nutritional concerns about our meat. For example, the chickens: they are given hormones to make them grow larger than normal, and faster than normal. They are given antibiotics as a disease preventative due to living without fresh air, sunshine and due to walking atop mounds of chicken pee and poo, and due to overcrowding. Who wants to eat chicken that is full of growth hormones and antibiotics?

There are lots of alternatives available to find healthy meats, eggs, cheese, etc. Here is a link to help you find healthy food locally: http://www.eatwild.com/products/florida.html :icon_hungry:

The point of the movie is for all of us to become educated about our food, the way it is produced, and the QUALITY of the food.

Like I said before: make up your own mind after learning for yourself . . .:popcorn:

Yes, please find out for yourselves. I never asked anyone to take my word for it, but it is open to investigation. I knew someone would attack me for what I wrote, and that's ok. You have your opinion and you are welcome to it.

I will not try to address all of your inflammatory questions. It will only give you more fodder. I will address a couple, though, that prove that everything you read and hear is not always true.

You cannot raise a chicken in the dark. Birds are birds. They roost at night. They (the integrator) pick them up at night because the chickens are sitting and not running around. It causes less stress and damage to the chickens that way. I know you will probably jump on this and make something of it, but that's ok. Also, I have given several chickens that were left behind at the end of the growout to friends. They did fine. They went and behaved just like a chicken, strutting around and eating anything small enough that moved. I can have them call you to confirm this, but you wouldn't believe it.

Male chickens are not ground up alive. How ridiculous! Did you also believe that Wendy's hamburgers were made with worms? Why would a company destroy a profitable item like a rooster. It costs the integrator about 15 cents to hatch an egg. Assuming 50% are male and I grew about a million pullets a year, look how much they would waste by killing the males on my farm alone. Male chickens are grown for consumption, just like females. They are not grown together because they grow at different rates and the processing plant can't easily process different sizes together. Look at those huge leg/thigh combinations that you find on sale occasionally. The breasts are used for restaurants or some sort of further processing and the legs and thigh are often sold this way. They are most likely roosters. But you probably won't believe that, either. I know it is true because when I first started, I grew roosters only for the first couple of years.

As far as sick and diseased, I never personally knew of any that were never sick and diseased. Diseases do happen, but they happen in the wild also They are grown on litter that is partly their own feces. It would be impossible to do otherwise. It is not the wet slimy mess you make it out to be. everything is the house is dry because of the air circulation. You probably won't believe that, either, because you already believe the worst about it.

I make no apologies for being a farmer nor do I apologize for eating meat. I believe what God said about eating meat and the use of animals. Genesis 9:2 and 3: "And the fear of you and the dread of you shall be upon every beast of the earth, and upon every fowl of the air, upon all that moves upon the earth, and upon all the fish of the sea; into your hand are they delivered. Every moving thing that lives shall be meat for you; even as the green herb have I given you all things." Now you have something else to attack me for.

I do feel sorry for someone who spews venom such as this without having ever been to a poultry operation to see for themselves if everything they hear is true. Is it a clean, pristine operation? Of course not. It is a livestock operation. Feces happens. Death happens. It wasn't unusual for a flock to suffer 1-2% mortality which is probably lower than humans. If you don't want to be hypocritical, don't eat animals. Eat vegetables. Oh, wait. A lot of vegetables are grown in Georgia and a lot of those growers bought the litter from my and other people's chicken houses to use as fertilizer for their vegetables. This probably happens in a lot of other states, also. I don't think you can escape it without growing everything yourself. I can give you a list of frozen food manufacturers that are in the same county as my old farm. I bet if you saw the way vegetables are grown and handled, you'd rant about that, too.

I never mentioned the movie, either. If you will notice I apologized and admitted this was off topic.

Thanks for the attack, btw. You made my day. It reminds me of the man who wanted to shut down all farming in our area because farms stink. He wrote an editorial in the local paper saying he wanted to be able to go out into the country and smell the wild honeysuckle. The only problem is that you can't feed a nation of people on wild honeysuckle. Someone has to grow your food.

Let the attacks begin. I'm done with this topic, personally. I know all I have done is give you more to rant about, but have at it. Quote pages from books, quote what you heard and saw in a movie. Just remember, you haven't been there and seen it. I will enjoy reading your rants and will make no further comments, so tear me up. I find it rather amusing.

Signed, Mr. Ab Horrent.

I will only contest this one point. They do not and cannot live without fresh air. There is a constant stream of air moving from one end of the house to be exhausted out the other end. I never saw the movie. Did they make that claim? If so, they are wrong about that. You have to exhaust the air continually because of the buildup of ammonia and the tremendous humidity that will quickly accumulate if you don't. The ammonia can blind and/or kill the chickens, not to mention the grower who has to spend several hours of the day in the houses.

I'm not trying to defend anything, just saying what I know to be true.

:BigApplause:

I am really trying to get educated and still didn't get either of my questions answered. :read: I guess I got lost in the shuffle of emotions.

I'm sorry, BK! The attached website says that factory farms produce 99% of the food we eat. Take a look:

http://www.farmforward.com/farming-f...actory-farming

Now, I'll go back and try to find your other question. :wave:

BK, I think this was your other question. I don't have an answer for you. It's an interesting question but I think it is highly unlikely. I imagine that the factory farms would go out of business and animal farming would revert to it's origins. There probably wouldn't be enough vegetables for everyone at first, but that would improve in time.

Here is a website that poses the question "What if everyone went vegetarian for just one day?"

http://www.alternet.org/water/134650..._just_one_day/

Mind you, I'm not promoting a vegetarian lifestyle, I am hoping to answer BK's question.

Humane Society of the United States -- a pretty good source, says that "hundreds of millions" male chicks are killed annually. Here's the info: http://www.hsus.org/farm/multimedia/...le_chicks.html

According to Mercy for Animals, male chicks are of no use to the industry because they can't lay eggs and don't grow large or quickly enough to be raised profitably for meat. That results in the killing of 200 million male chicks a year. This page includes a video of male chicks being thrown into a grinding machine while still alive. I don't recommend watching the video. Here's the page:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/0..._n_273652.html

iandwk,

I apologize that you took my post so personally. I should have worded this part of my post differently. I should have said "it is hard to admit to even one's self that one is behaving abhorently". I believe all of us have the ability to justify our actions. And that applies to some factory farm owners.

While I believe that today's factory farms are horrible, or abhorent, I didn't intend to personally attack you -- for goodness' sakes, I don't even know you.

Yes, today's factory farms, whether they are family owned or owned by corporations, are inhumane and produce below-par food. But no, that doesn't mean you are a bad person. You are right -- with our country's current demand for meat, someone has to have the job of providing it.

My intention of asking all those questions, is to point out that there are horrendous practicies in place in today's farming, of which most people are unaware. If the average person in the U.S. knew what really happened on the factory farms, they wouldn't stand for it!

Please accept my apology if you felt personally attacked. I am attacking the practice of all factory farms, not you personally.

But if you think about it, really think about it, well...I found this. It is something to think about. I guess my mind just works in weird ways sometimes.

http://www.fluther.com/42674/what-wo...rian-tomorrow/

Concerning chickens being raised in the dark . . . if sunlight is replaced by dim electric lights, that is darkness. Attached are a couple of photos of chickens raised for food in dark warehouses. Also notice that the photos taken in the link provided by larryandlinda were taken in the dark, with the only light visible is from the camera flash. Also attached is a video of an egg producing facility, raided by rescuers during the bright daylight, and inside there is complete darkness. Puppy mills are also sometimes completely dark and the dogs spend their whole lives in complete blackness, so this practice seems to be commonplace. I imagine it is done to keep the animals more calm, and in the case of puppies, to keep people from looking in (they paint the windows black).

http://i1018.photobucket.com/albums/...d/broiler3.jpg

http://i1018.photobucket.com/albums/...d/broiler1.jpg

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=haWr5WfZQ90[/ame]

K9 - just fascinating!
 

You have really put your passion into your diet and lifestyle.
We, too, do not preach nor advocate what people put into (and hence 'onto') their bodies.
We keep it simple - find out what's good, try to make it palatable, and consume in moderation. Because we grew up with a huge ray gun picture tube in our faces telling us about eating for flavor and fun - we developed our craving for fried, sweet, rich, and good-looking food.

Teaching old dogs new tricks is a challenge with decade upon decade of
eating poorly.
Yes, we do sometimes get frustrated that the greed of some is responsible for the sickness of others - but the good news is that as adults we can make choices about our intake'
We choose to make the choice of food based upon value, simplicity, so we stay fiscally and physically fit.

While we are part time indulgers ourselves, we consider those times 'feasts' as outlined by Dr John McDougall and Paavo Airola
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paavo_Airola

We're also noticing that with a healthy diet we can function better as we mature. We can get farther on the bikes with less effort, and the mind and body seem to stay better tuned.We are also noticing that we are able to live with less climate control.
And while we realize that sleep is most essential, the healthier diets are working so well we are cheating a little off the sack time with no negative effects.
That gives us more 'awake time' in the Friendly Hometown when there.

Here's something a well-wisher recently forwarded to us, thinking we had both completely gone off animal food, but there are some 'food that had eyes' in the diet

http://www.vegsource.com/news/2009/0...eat-eater.html

Buon /Apetito

L and L

One final video and I'm done for tonight. I don't want to have nightmares!! :ohdear:

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z-cor1uZ2AM&feature=related[/ame]

I said I was done, but since things have gotten a bit more civil, I will comment on this. The pictures were taken with a flash. Undoubtedly at night. Poultry is not raised with light 100% of the time until usually the last week before shipping out. Lights are on timers and they get plenty of rest while growing. These pictures may have been taken just before being picked up for processing or during a time when the lights are out. There is no way, and if you have ever been in a poultry house at night you would understand, absolutely no way you can raise a chicken with constant darkness. They sit down and do not move until it is light. They would starve, or at best be severely stunted in their growth. I cannot comment on what they do with layer houses, but an educated guess would be that they regulate the light to keep the chicken healthy and producing. I do know their feed is regulated. A broiler house has food available 24/7. A layer house gets food at certain times. I am sure the purpose is to maximize production of eggs.

I realize there are issues and problems with the government's involvement in the agriculture business. But I think part of the problem I have with the discussion is just that I personally know farmers. Real life farmers who raise breeder cattle, farmers who raise sheep, farmers who raise hogs, farmers who have been dairy farmers for generations-all friends of mine.

People I know who've I've broken bread with and prayed with and watched their children grow up and get married. I've been on their farms and watched them nurse lame animals, watched their children win awards with their livestock at 4-H shows and county fairs. These are people who stay up all night when their sheep are lambing, who walk through knee deep snow in the middle of the night for days on end to get the new born lambs.

You can't attack farmers without recognizing the good people out there who fed the people in this country. And trust me, there are many many many of these people.

You know what I have always admired abouit my farmer friends, besides that most of their wives are school teachers so they can have the summer off to help on the farm and they are some of the hardest working people you will ever meet? They really have more faith than any people I've ever known. Faith that their crops will come in. Faith that their animals with not take ill and will produce. Faith that the market won't fall and they have enough to get through another season.

I've read all of your information and I thank you for it all. It's a lot to digest, no pun intended. I hope you read mine and consider my words as well.


BTW, family farms account for 98 percent of farms are family farms, and they account for 82 percent of farm production in the US.

http://www.ers.usda.gov/publications/eib67/

One more:

http://www.epa.gov/agriculture/ag101/demographics.html