Locked alone in your house means you will not survive. That's the reality of that situation.
but
What if you are visiting with neighbors, or are outside doing things like trimming flowers, or chatting with people? Maybe they would be able to call 911 and start to render aid immediately. Someone can be kept alive with CPR, and viable for a full recovery, even if their heart cannot be restarted for tens of minutes. It's about keeping the oxygen moving to the brain.

You really should learn about how AEDs work. They are computers and monitor the heart. They direct a person to do CPR better. They analyze the heart and will order people to stand clear to deliver a shock ONLY when it's REQUIRED.
If a responder cannot correctly tell if there is a pulse, the AED can. AED will say "begin CPR". Plain and simple, it's the expert tool helping people do things right.

Having someone there right away improves your chance of survival without complications. Brain injury happens when too much time passes between the heart attack, and getting blood moving again. That's 4 minutes max. Waiting for an ambulance to arrive means likely your fears will happen. I'd take the nearby volunteers with an AED every time.

Thoughts and prayers!

I think this is true for many who live alone, and in my area it is mostly widows.

Sounds like someone wants to be the head honcho!

Why not let each village or area do their own thing? This chart makes me think that I don’t care to just donate to a group that wants to control everything. Watch what you wish for!

Are you supporting my point that the real benefit would be trained CPR neighbors not an AED device ?

I'm having a hard time believing that a neighborhood AED has a high probability of actual shock administered within a four minute window. Put a time estimate on these events prior to administration:

- Realization that the event is serious enough that one should place the 911 call
- Retrieving a phone and placing the call
- Relaying the information to the 911 operator
- 911 operator relays info to paramedics
- Paramedic triggers phone calls to trained AED neighbors.
- AED trained neighbors digest info
- AED trained neighbor gather personal belongings - keys, phone, hat, jacket, etc.
- AED trained neighbor leaves house (by foot / golf cart ?) and fetches AED
- AED trained neighbor goes from AED station to the house of victim
- AED trained neighbor communicates apron arrival at the house about situation
- AED trained neighbor hooks up device
- AED device does self diagnosis
- AED button is pushed

Is it possible all this in 4 minutes from the event start - maybe under ideal conditions
What percentage of time will all these steps occur in a private home situation (not the town square, rec center, etc) within the four minute window - my opinion very low percentage.

If you read the other AED thread, you would know that protocol dictates that the initial responder starts CPR (if needed) and the SECOND volunteer responder gets the AED...

You just don't leave the person to die and wander off to fetch the AED...

When we first were moving in, someone stopped by and dropped off the information.. No pressure to give at that time.

Once I read thru the info, I decided it was a valuable program and I sent in a check...

Unfortunately, that only works if they have everyone's email...

It's not just "one or two" people in the neighborhood...

And if no one is available, unfortunately that means no one is available. There is no "on call"...

The same with EMTs. If they're available, they'll show up quickly. If they're already responding to other calls, you're gonna' have to wait a bit longer...

It's not meant to replace the EMTs. It there to be an adjunct, to "assist" the EMTs...

What "privacy" was invaded? Did they post names? If not, your post is invalid...

You timeline is completely wrong...

The correct sequence of events has been explained, multiple times...

OK give me actual fact based data of what the time is from the initial event to the actual shock reaching the victim's heart is in a voluntary neighborhood AED situation. - emphasis real data!

Silly post
 

This is so far from the truth it is Truly unbelievable! You have no idea what the process is!! Go do your homework before you try to talk like an expert!

Well, to start, the very first thing a responder does is rush to the home and start CPR (if needed)... A point you were unaware of (or conveniently ignored...). Since that has been explained, multiple times, I'm going with "option B"...

That alone proves your entire premise wrong...

Well fortunately our village social organization did have the emails….thats how the coordinator decimates information.
The letter you mentioned seemed to work as well.

rustyp…as I said go do your homework and not rely on someone of knowledge tell you!
 

You are right Tom!

Another fact is the 911 dispatchers sends alerts to any registered responder within 1/2 mile of the downed person at the exact time they notify the first responders. All responders immediately go to the provided address on a map FIRST and start CPR. Other responders who responded will go pick up the AED unit and return immediately to the patient. In our Village it is a goal to arrive each cardiac arrest within 3 minutes. The assist limit is NOT 4 minutes. Now go do more homework!

Yes, and we have a local directory, everyones’ phone numbers, emails, contacts. It’s voluntary and so far no one has selected not to be in it. The way we raised funds for AEDs was one EMS person (my direct neighbor) demonstrated the entire process in an emergency at the rec center. This was our neighborhood social and no one didn’t pay their share although some people offered to pay twice as much since they had 2 people living at their house. Which makes sense because the likely hood of someone needing it depends on how many people in the home.

You just added an extra step between 6 and 7.You can't retrieve the AED if you are doing CPR. Now you are going to say another volunteer is getting the AED. We will need to coordinate golf, pickle ball, rec center classes . etc. to make sure we have the coverage.

Change add or delete the steps. The point was we have a 6 minute response time here in TV by paramedics. I also stated the payback would be CPR training. It's a very small chance you will beat the paramedics to the AED button push step.

My opinion (which allowed until you can produce the time data I requested) is
- The AED in a TV volunteer situation is more a placebo than a life saver. It's not likely to be used but has to be maintained.
- Spend your efforts getting neighbors CPR trained. That's where 99% of the payback will come from.

I wish people would learn to read - go back - reread! The list was intended for the reader to assign time to steps to illustrate how likely or unlikely neighbors would beat paramedics in TV to the AED - not CPR.

Your opinion is your opinion but it would be better to hear statistics from those involved with the program.

Some problems I see with your steps:
- Your step 5 is probably performed by the 911 operator and over an automated system, not a telephone
- Steps 6 and 7 are essentially instantaneous. The volunteer responders are not going to work through a long checklist in their head to digest the information and prepare to leave the house, they are likely to receive the alert and head out the door
- As of step 7, there are three efforts happening simultaneously: EMT response, CPR response, and AED response.
- There is no doubt in my mind that the CPR response can reach my neighbors faster than the EMT, it's a simple matter of distance
- We don't have AEDs so I can't guess how conveniently located they may be or how much time would be needed to find the closest unit (your steps 8 & 9)
- Step 10 is again almost instantaneous

Just because you can identify multiple steps doesn't mean the steps take any meaningful time to execute. I imagine I could describe the steps required to take a breath, something that can happen in less than a second, in enough detail that you couldn't hold your breath while reading all of them. Several of the steps listed take less than two seconds and take longer to read than to execute.

But again, it would be nice to get statistics from those with actual experience.

OK, I'm jumping in. First, please stop calling it an "AED Program". It is a neighborhood Emergency Response Team program. Second, of course we are trained to start CCC (continuous chest compressions) after determining that is the correct thing to do. Responders have a list of duties that include much more than just fetching the AED.

I am seeing a lot of comments from those that clearly have no idea what is actually involved in these EMT programs. I find it irresponsible of them to risk influencing others with their uninformed comments. OK, have at me. I will still come to your home and help save your life.

Clearly OP is not familiar with how the process actually happens. Others have helped them understand how incorrect (and incomplete) that timeline is.

One major point being suggested is that the trained people responding are not capable of actually getting to the victim and performing CPR in a timely manner. That concept is ridiculous.
From the time the 911 operator gets the call, to the info being sent via Pulse Point simultaneously to the FD and all trained resident's phones near the call, and those residents begin heading to the location might take 15 seconds in the daytime. Obviously a little longer at night but still quickly. Neighbors will arrive and start CPR immediately. More people will arrive and all will pitch in with doing other tasks, and trading out who is actually hands on. CPR FIRST, ASAP. That's what happens to save a life.

Shortly, when another person arrives with an AED, it gets set up right away. Since it's a computer, it will analyze the heart rhythm and shock if necessary. Cannot do that via CPR.
AED also evaluates the quality of CPR being performed. It will say things like "press harder" or "press faster". There's no guessing about "is this the right form". No opinions. It's 100% factual information to direct people how to do CPR better. That equates to a more likely chance for a save.
Starting to understand the value of the AED yet?

This is the best response medical science has developed. It has success because of all the pieces are working together. Multiple people getting to patient quickly to immediately start CPR. Having state of the art equipment available to assist efforts. Having paramedics en-route to provide advanced life support when they get there.

Without the AED program, the patient likely would not receive CPR until the medics arrive. Most likely, things are already too late.

They have -everybody's- emails?

That's surprising, considering how protective some are about giving out their email...

Once again, you show you don't know how the program, nor the actual AED, works...

I (and others) have explained it to you. Sadly, we can't understand it for you...

EVERYONE in the AED program is trained in CPM. The AED is an adjunct to help insure that the CPR is being performed properly, as well as a defibrillator (if needed).

And no, you don't have to coordinate the volunteer's schedules. The call goes out to dozens (possibly more) of people...

And that "6 minute response time"? That is the average, under ideal conditions...

An excellent explanation of the "timeline"!

Unfortunately, it will fall on -some- "deaf ears"...

All of this weeks long interpretation of this subject has had me hoping someone would drop the famous quote from Joe Pesci' character in My Cousin Vinny. After a brief nap at the defense table, he awakens and walks towards the jury....pointing to the DA and says "everything that guy just said is bull s*it"!

What we need is an audit of how much money has been spent on car homeowner's insurance in my neighborhood, and how many times claims have been called in. To me, it doesn't make sense to just throw money at something without any data to justify it.

Facts: not many. And yet we bear the costs of other neighborhoods who have called in insurance much more often. The roof scandal is a great example of that. Only a limited number of streets in The Villages participated in the fraud of unscrupulous roofers submitting the insurance claims on behalf of customers who didn't actually need new roofs. But all site-built homes in The Villages are feeling the fallout from that now.

Meanwhile, the people who genuinely do need a new roof - have to pay through the nose, because those unscrupulous roofers are no longer around to give cut rates to the consumer while submitting bloated prices to the insurance companies.

I agree with you - unfortunately from a direct personal experience. The AED which was across from my house two houses down, so let’s say 60 steps away, arrived too late and these people were at home and came immediately. That does not mean the system never works, just don’t count on it alone.

I also slept with my door open, for the first time in my life. My EMS neighbor said to call 911 (and they call him as he is closest) because I was having a difficult time breathing from grief and shock. After losing what I valued most in life, burglary would have been a drop in the bucket. It was my neighbors, through their caring and kindness who really saved my life, and yes I would certainly fund an AED if they wanted one.

That would most likely result in another movie.. National Lampoon's "Vacation"...

Who would ever "count on it alone"?

It doesn't get implemented until a call to "911" is made...

As I've explained, multiple times, it's an "adjunct" to the EMT response...

Not an issue……not everyone is paranoid.:a040:

OBTW only the association secretary has the emails. Quit looking for a flaw!

Look above at my original post re AED response time! Some unfortunately will fall upon non comprehensive reading skills.

You are trying very hard to get people to understand how the system works. It appears that there are some who do not want to let go of their pre-conceived, uninformed thoughts.

My concern is that their comments may influence others and negatively affect a neighborhood's ability to implement a program. A life could be lost because people became convinced that it was not needed. That would be a genuine shame.

If you don't have a mortgage, homeowner's insurance is optional. If you think it is too expensive, then don't buy it.

Timing
 

How about this. I'm having chest pains, I call 911 and I pass out while talking to the operator. The call goes out to all in the neighborhood. They arrive and find all the doors are locked. They can't get in to start compressions. CW shows up and says I can't break the door down. Fire Rescue shows up and says I CAN. Meanwhile, I died lying on the floor. As a neighbor, would YOU break the door down?

Life has winners and losers………….

Thanks for the Actual data...
For me, It is a 13 minute drive from the closest firehouse (assuming they aren't out on another call).
Looking forward to implementing our neighborhood Emergency Response program!

If you called 911, and no one came to the door to open....i would think a quick due diligence of the windows....the doors coming down! Unless there were contingencies on file. They can deal with the mail order attorney later

Is that what you learned in your ERT training session? Is it professional legal advice? Or is it just your opinion without the mail order service?

Don't most 911 operators stay with a person in such an emergency, ask if the door is open for access, and if not, or they lost contact with the caller, notify responders, whom after being informed, would act accordingly, and gain/force entry.

Most of the front doors of properties we rented would open with a credit card, let alone a hefty size 12 boot.