arc rude

So....an 'honor system'? :a20:

Because there is no “HOA” here.

Yes, of course that would work and paying someone to do these things that the anonymous reporting is doing for no cost.......... adds more salaries to pay and that my dear is how these things get real expensive and the bottom line is that ultimately the expenses come back to all of us.

I like the procedures the way they are. I like the anonymous reporting. Not everyone can confront someone and say....Hey fellow, will you remove that plywood figure of the chubby lady bending over watering her flowers from your front yard?

Pre-approved lists could perhaps get that nick name for it.

I would think most adults here would be responsible enough to follow the relaxed rules. Happier too. For the ones that think they might get away with something outside of those pre-approved things, and flop on their back kicking their legs and laughing at everyone else, they are also the same ones that don't bother to get ARC approval for anything. When they are reported (just as it is presently) the consequences are still the same.

Are you not honorable?

Only if the complaint actually finds something out of compliance (not allowed, safety issue, illegal).

Good one

You basically have an ‘honor system’ in place currently. How’s that working out? Yeah, that’s what I thought!

I wish an honor system would work but there are many connivers in the villages that would not be honorable, lol JMHO

It's really impossible to tell without doing an independent investigation of every single property. And that would be a horrendous undertaking. I am guessing that a great number of landscaping additions, along with other additions or changes, have not gone through ARC, but if they had, would have been OK'd. So, unless a complainant can show that their issue is based on safety/security, illegal, trespass, or other serious concern and the situation has existed for an extended period of time, ARC not waste time on frivolous complaints.

It isn't just TV. Life is an honor system, of sorts. Cheat at anything and if you get caught there are consequences. Even being honorable to your own body. Eat more than you need, you get fat. Eat things that aren't good for you, more fat and maybe sick. Don't get proper exercise, get weak. Etc.
No, I'm not perfect, but, I'm mostly honorable and I think most people are mostly honorable too. So an honor system isn't perfect, but it mostly works pretty well. jmho.
😌

i wish i could agree with you my friend but the condition of this country says otherwise.

Hope still shines. Even good, sincere and honorable people can be lead astray. "You can fool some of the people all of the time, and all of the people some of the time".

Yup-

well said!

I am grateful that we have the processes in place the way they have been for all of the years we've lived here. It works, for the most part, and people who are hesitant to point out an infraction are protected. ONLY infractions that are out of compliance are acted upon.

It is free, because HIRING someone to do something inevitably ends up taking from our pockets.

Mostly the rumblings and complaints are from folks who are annoyed that their taste has been challenged, or did not realize that we do have deed restrictions and rules to keep this place looking nice and to keep the values up for all the property we all own.

When I read the grumblings, I often sense it is a bit of; "You aren't going to tell ME what I can or cannot do.".

new law on disclosing covenants signed (can't believe it was not in place prior)
 

New law hitting the books in Florida.

Can we agree that if you buy a home knowing it has deed restrictions and do not read them then the buyer has some blame in buying an out of compliance home? All of us signed documents at closing saying we would follow these regulations as written. All of us. Some do things they know or should know (if they read the documents) are violations and wait for someone to turn them in. That is not how covenants are set up to work. The villages chooses to put homeowner against homeowner vs. enforcing the documents. It takes the average homeowner, who wants a neighborhood that follows certain guidelines, and put them against another homeowner, who chose to violate what they signed at closing. Admit it, the only reason to have the complainant disclosed is so the violator can use peer pressure to avoid compliance. There is no other reason to disclose the person complaining but to stop people from trying to get the deed restrictions enforced out of fear of repercussions. No other reason. Deed Restrictions/Covenants for the most part are crystal clear, yes or no questions. Anyone reading them can determine if their is an issue in 95% of the cases. If you violate a covenant and dispute it your fight is not with the neighbor who reported you. It is with the covenant issuing body. Only benefit to knowing who complained is to the person violating the documents. They want to pressure an individual homeowner in advance with fear of being "outed" so they get to do what they want no matter what they agreed to when they signed their closing documents. Most violators bring things into compliance. All of us agreed to follow the deed restrictions (you can't own a home and not agree) and no one, even those most vocal, can say they did not sign documents saying they would follow the deed restrictions. If they read them and understand them is not another neighbor's concern.

We are one good lawsuit away from losing the deed restrictions.

It is against Florida law to enforce covenants on one resident and not on another. Selective enforcement occurs when an association tolerates a violation by one owner and then chooses to undertake enforcement against another owner in connection with substantially the same violation. In White Egret Condominium, Inc. v. Franklin, 379 So. 2d 346 (Fla. 1979) the court found that there was selective enforcement and refused to enforce a restriction prohibiting children from residing in condominium units against an owner who proved that while his family was targeted for enforcement, the association at the same time was tolerating children residing in other units. The takeaway is that an association may not treat the same conduct as a violation in connection with one property and not a violation in connection with another.

Unenforced covenants can be reinstated with proper notice but violations in the past, during the period of enforcement, are not subject to the reinstated deed restrictions.(google Chattel shipping notice for case).

New law hb1203 - state summary...Homeowners' Associations; Providing requirements for certain community association managers and community association management firms; requiring certain associations to post certain documents on its website or make available such documents through an application by a date certain; providing that an association or its agent is not liable for the disclosure of certain information; requiring an association or any architectural, construction improvement, or other such similar committee of an association to apply and enforce certain standards reasonably and equitably; etc.

Are you saying that this new law applies to The Villages? The Villages does not have homeowners' associations. Homeowners' associations rules are not the same as deed restrictions. The Villages has deed restrictions that are unique to each property. The deed restriction document for one property may prohibit lawn ornaments, but another property's document may allow them. But, the homeowners' associations rules are the same for every property within the community. Apples and oranges.

From the Villages..... may want to read up on CDD's. They are the same legally when enforcing Deed Restrictions.... if different house by house (not here, may vary by district....not house) they still are the enforcing body.
Page 2 of 8
Deed Compliance
Q: What is an external deed restriction and who can enforce them?
A: Deed restrictions are declarations between the Declarant (Developer named in your individual
Declaration of Restrictions) and the Property Owner. Who can enforce the external deed
restrictions?
• Any property owner of any lot may seek to enforce external restrictions against another
property owner.
• The Declarant may seek to enforce external and internal restrictions.
• The Village Community Development Districts through adopted Rule may enforce
certain EXTERNAL restrictions that have been adopted by each Board to enforce as
authorized by Chapter 190 of Florida Statutes.
• Examples of external deed restriction violations include, but are not limited to, external
modifications made without ARC approval, overgrown or dead grass and weeds, and
inoperable vehicles.

They actually have a rule that says they can...... so yes, HOA and CDD are the same when they enforce Deed Restrictions. Of course it is by district and different districts can have different deed restrictions.... you sign your specific deed restrictions at closing.

Rule adopted by district 10... others are the same..... from cdd page, District adopted rules.... add www
districtgov.org/departments/community-standards/DistrictAdoptedRules
Alterations, Modifications, and Changes
The District is responsible for approving alterations, changes, or modifications to Homesites and the
exterior appearance and structure of the home.

Sorry, but I really didn't understand your post. Since the new law is entitled "Homeowners' Associations", and The Villages doesn't have homeowners' associations, does the new law apply to The Villages?

Florida law under the section 190 (190 creates CDD's) referenced above give the CDD's the option to pass a rule giving them the powers of an HOA. 190.012 Special powers; public improvements and community facilities (4)(a) To adopt rules necessary for the district to enforce certain deed restrictions pertaining to the use and operation of real property within the district and outside the district pursuant to an interlocal agreement under chapter 163 if within another district or, if not within another district, with the consent of the county or municipality in which the deed restriction enforcement is proposed to occur. For the purpose of this subsection, the term “deed restrictions” means those covenants, conditions, restrictions, compliance mechanisms, and enforcement remedies contained in any applicable declarations of covenants and restrictions that govern the use and operation of real property and, for which covenants, conditions, and restrictions, there is no homeowners’ association or property owner’s association having respective enforcement powers unless, with respect to a homeowners’ association whose board is under member control, the association and the district agree in writing to enforcement by the district. The district may adopt by rule all or certain portions of the deed restrictions that: (gives details did not copy)

Even if there is a HOA, the CDD can take on the Deed Restrictions management and enforcement if done in writing. The Villages set up the CDD's to have this responsibility so they are treated as an HOA under laws concerning deed restrictions. The law impacts the enforcement of deed restrictions themselves, so it does not matter if an HOA or CDD is responsible. Our CDD's have passed rules to act as HOA in the specific district concerning deed restrictions as outlined in section 190.

Not easy to unpack. The Villages chooses not to have the CDD's enforce the deed restrictions uniformly and instead waits for complaints. Normally the HOA/CDD has a committee or process in place (management company/committee checks property every 30-90 days for violations etc.) to make sure deed restrictions are enforced. That leads to subjective enforcement, which if dealt with in court would make that specific deed restriction invalid. Of course, someone would need to challenge in court since the CDD likely will not admit to selective enforcement even if it is obviously the case, as it is here. Violations of a deed restriction are normally clear cut like does a home have too many flag poles....yes or no. If you ride down the street and can see the same violations on 4 lawns in a district and someone complains about one lawn and the CDD addresses only that one violation, that is selective enforcement. Having a complaint only policy is a way to lower resident expectations but has no bearing on the selective enforcement determination. Once the CDD takes on deed restrictions they have a duty to all residents to enforce them equally (the new law actually restates that too). They can't put some of that responsibility off on a resident and only act on some violations with out it being selective enforcement. As the above states, they can enforce "certain" restrictions but they can't enforce the same restriction differently if it exists on two lots without triggering the selective enforcement defense, which nullifies the specific restriction for all homes in the district until it is reinstated (law on how to do that too, can't go back and force someone to comply. Only future violations, after proper notice can be addressed. The case mentioned in my earlier post.)

With all due respect, it might be worth your time to review the numerous threads on this same topic before overwhelming this one with voluminous arguments that have been discussed several times

There have been complaints lodged about things that had been in place for months and even years. The Villages, according to some accounts, has even sold new homes which were out of compliance when released. If that were true, that particular issue should be grandfathered in along with all other issues that match said complaint. If something has been inplace for a reasonable amount of time, has not received previous complaints, is not illegal, a safety hazzard, does not extend beyond the property line, it should be grandfathered.
If your neighbor plants a palm, or puts stepping stones in their garden, or (God forbid) a little white cross where they buried the budgy in the flowerbed, the time to complain is right then, not two years down the road. Talk to your neighbor. If the issue can't be resolved, then, only the should you be allowed to file a complaint with ARC.
jmvho. 😇✌️🖖

Not everyone knows what subjects/threads have been discussed before. Not everyone is going to sift through all previous threads. Some of us, like me, might not live long enough to do that. Still, we want to be heard on the subject (whatever it is) at the present. Yes, there will be lots of reoccurring subjects and opinions, but comments may still appropriate and therefore reiterated. Like many conversations, a lot of things get repeated, over and over.
Have a good day, and don't sweat the small stuff.

Simply if the VLS is selling homes out of compliance and then their complaint department is later filing a complaint to the new property owner for out of compliance, it seems to be a conflict of interest as far as i can see!

So, is the purchaser on the hook for the remedy? Or, if not illegal, presents no safety hazzard and is within the property line, should it even be a valid complaint?
Remember, complaints are driven by neighbors, not ARC.

It is a valid complaint if it violates a deed restriction. All deed restrictions are not based on legality, safety, or whether it is within the property line. Some of them are based on cosmetic features, such as the color of the house, or the type of driveway treatment. And, yes, whoever owns the house is responsible for deed restriction violations.

Total inflexibility? Zero extenuating circumstances? No modifications or chages to current standards even as newer/better options become available or older options become no longer available? Deed restrictions are chiseled in stone and not subject to review or change?
OK! The budgie didn’t need a grave marker anyway. Sorry Tweety bird. 🥲

I agree. if you want flexibility, it shouldn't be "cast-in-stone" as part of the property deed. It should be a rule that can be changed by a board or committee. That is the way it is done with homeowners' associations.

Endless issue with no perfect answers. A different way to handle this is an architectural committee. People elected or whatever to look for violations. Like all other solutions they do not work perfectly. Johnny favors his friend Bob, they are both in the door knob club

Neighbor issues. Funny to me. Years ago I met a German guy who married a duchess, or whatever her title was. She came with a family castle on hundreds of acres. There was a dispute with a neighbor over a tree that was huge and centuries old. Grandfathered? Great, great, great grandfathered is closer to the truth.

Serious or perhaps bugging my wife. I became aware of an Island off North Carolina for sale with a nice house and a small heard of wild horses. Set up my own kingdom? i WAS VOTED OUT OF OFFICE BY THE QUEEN and we are in the Villages.

Far as out of compliance. Someone built a garage for their CAMPER BUS. The neighbor of course was not happy. Ad for the home BUS GARAGE VIEW.

Endless LIFE ISSUE. Laws, RULES apply to ALL Typical views caught speeding. I'm not guilty because you do not catch everyone. Far as the purchaser of a home in violation, The time to investigate is before buying. If, it was missed and you PAID a firm to check, part of what you PAID protects you from their errors.

Please provide contact information for a couple of home inspectors that will check for the Villages deed restriction violations. Some may check for encroachments on property lines but I haven't see one yet that will ensure the shingles are the right color, the outside trim is an approved color, and the driveway isn't two inches too wide.

The VLS has a complaint department????

thanks for the tip, but I was answering a question..
 

Thanks for the tip. May want to take the time to read previous posts in the thread yourself before commenting. See post 58 and 60... questions from another resident. Should I have said read the entire history of this issue on this site instead of answering him?

I also have not seen the new law that takes effect in July 2024 addressed yet.

It has major impacts on our residents like you can have anything you want in your backyard as long as it can't be seen from another property.... ie hidden by bushes.. Deed restrictions can't take that right away after July 1. Our deed restrictions currently do not permit that.

Deed restrictions can be changed, using a process defined in the documents
 

Deed restrictions can be changed. The documents have to have a process to do it. CDD took on role of HOA when they took on responsibility for Deed Restrictions. They can act to change any deed restriction they wish to update.

CDD is not an HOA no matter how many times you assert otherwise. The CDD has NO power to change the deed restrictions, only the Developer can do that.

Which law is that? If it exists it WILL be available online. I suspect it does not say what you believe it does.

58 and 60 both pointed out that a CDD is not an HOA, just as I did in my post above.

Never said CDD was HOA.... they take on the powers of an HOA by rule they passed.... it was in the answers you complained about - here it is again.... Note CDD docs refer to powers granted by 190... Florida law under the section 190 (190 creates CDD's) referenced above give the CDD's the option to pass a rule giving them the powers of an HOA. 190.012 Special powers; public improvements and community facilities (4)(a) To adopt rules necessary for the district to enforce certain deed restrictions pertaining to the use and operation of real property within the district and outside the district pursuant to an interlocal agreement under chapter 163 if within another district or, if not within another district, with the consent of the county or municipality in which the deed restriction enforcement is proposed to occur. For the purpose of this subsection, the term “deed restrictions” means those covenants, conditions, restrictions, compliance mechanisms, and enforcement remedies contained in any applicable declarations of covenants and restrictions that govern the use and operation of real property and, for which covenants, conditions, and restrictions, there is no homeowners’ association or property owner’s association having respective enforcement powers unless, with respect to a homeowners’ association whose board is under member control, the association and the district agree in writing to enforcement by the district. The district may adopt by rule all or certain portions of the deed restrictions

Yes...
 

[QUOTE=Bill14564;2342222]Which law is that? If it exists it WILL be available online. I suspect it does not say what you believe it does.



Here is the actual section of the law effective next month on the parties enforcing deed restrictions.
720.3045 Installation, display, and storage of items.—755
Regardless of any covenants, restrictions, bylaws, rules, or756
requirements of an association, and unless prohibited by general757
law or local ordinance, an association may not restri ct parcel758
owners or their tenants from installing, displaying, or storing759
any items on a parcel which are not visible from the parcel's760
frontage or an adjacent parcel, an adjacent common area, or a761
community golf course, including, but not limited to, artificial762
turf, boats, flags, vegetable gardens, clotheslines, and763
recreational vehicles.