RUSS: Some just don't have the ability to have any common sense. Of course it makes sense for 30 bikes to go on through a stop sign after the first one sees it's safe to do so.

In your scenario, is the first bike stopping, or just cruising through while checking to see if it's safe?

Guidelines from cyclists websites indicates they should bunch up at traffic control signs/lights, then go through en masse when it is safe or they have the right of way, rather than in a string of single riders. Yes, to have each of 30 riders stop seems excessive, but what is the limit? What if there are 50 riders? How long should other traffic defer while they stream through?

If it's OK for bikes, then maybe the second or third car at the stop sign should just follow on the tail of the first car to stop if no one's coming. After all, stopping wastes gas and increases emissions. LOL

The fact is these roads are for everyone's use. Everyone needs to expect that different vehicles will be on the road at the same time and drive appropriately. That means following established rules of the road and guidelines.

I repeat, has there been an ACTUAL problem. Or you just 'annoyed'? Do you really want to wait behind a line of 15-30 of them stopping completely each time? Really? Instead of citing law answer that question if you may.

One thing I would say is that the total length of a pack of riders is not much more than say 2 or 3 cars. Since they are riding together they should be bunched at the stop sign and proceed as one unit. Seems to make logical sense to me.

My personal opinion is that if there were 30 of them, I'd prefer the first one to actually, really stop, and then have them go through as a group. But that rarely happens. And then you have the single ones who zip up beside a line of cars waiting at a red light and turn without stopping. And the single ones that breeze through stop signs without stopping. There is nothing wrong with the single riders obeying all traffic laws.

Also, it's a shame there aren't more serious bicycle trails in this state. For instance, you can bike from Pittsburgh to Washington DC on a bike trail. the cyclists lobbied for it, and the states and communities made it happen over a number of years. I'm sure others could name more.

the stop sign means stop. not slow down. cyclists break the law all the time and are the first to say someone else is.

And people still think it is funny.

Lisa,
Despite the venom of some posters towards cyclists, TV is a great place for avid bikers. The Sumter landing club has great rides. Don't judge biking by the posts here, come and try it out.

Be safe
 

There are times the roads are safer than the paths. Agressive golf carts passing at speeds above 19.5. Neighbor lady on her bike was hit head on by a cart in the wrong lane coming at her around a corner. People never stopped left her maimed in the path.

Bike's should stop. They are often cleated in and un cleating a foot and coming to a stop is sometime dangerous and more difficult than a non rider might think,

Bikes are no longer required to stop at down gates but they must slow down and yield. I believe this literature is at all gate opps? I said slow thru the gate not blow through in a 30 mph tour de france pak

Lets all slow down be safe drive defensive and enjoy this paradise. To much stress hate and anger lately.

:agree:

Not a bad place at all, just as anywhere else, someone will always think they are correct and everyone else is wrong. Last year had to take my daughter to hospital, she got ran over on the MM Path between laurel Manor and Morse right by Laurel Valley. Cart tried to pass us where the divider is,, Knocked my wife off the bike and ran over my daughter. Grabbed him by his shirt collar, threw his cart keys away and waited for the SCSO.
It does not matter where a cyclist rides, someone will complain. But it is alright for cars to do the same, or carts to race up and down the MMP because they can not be ticketed due to private property deal.

If you ride bike here, just got to watch for everyone. Yesterday on Rio Grande approaching Del Mar at the new stop sign. I was riding around 27 mph. As the lane came to the merge spot for carts and bikes to merge in with regular traffic, I starting to merge over. A car comes around me in the wrong lane and tries to slide back in, one problem, I was already in the lane and did not move for them. Just then a car tried to make a right turn from Del Mar onto Rio Grande and could not because the car was blocking their lane trying to move me out of the way. The lady in the passenger side of the car yelled at me telling me to learn the laws of the road and the bicycles are not allowed in the lane. Imagine that!!! I told her she needed to read up on the laws and the lane was merged into one lane for the stop sign.
So it is not just the cyclist. As I said on another post, Everyone needs to know the laws and drive respectful of one another. This is a retirement community, what is the big hurry. You would think this is NYC or LA in rush hour sometimes.

To the poster complaining about cyclist at Panera's. What are we not allowed to sit down in there and spend money???? The Cyclist spend alot of money at that place daily. I have never heard anything like that.... Got to be kidding right??? :shrug:

I agree Russ. There seems to be a rules mentality, that says obeying the "rule" is more important than having common sense and driving safely. And a lot of it is tied up in this anti-cyclist attitude. Some people won't be happy unless the roads are all free of all cyclists. The roads are meant to be shared, they are not just dedicated to automobiles. Luckily its just a few people that think that way.

People seem to lose track of the fact that the objective is not the Rule, it is Safety. And sometimes safety is better served by adapting the rule to the situation i.e. have one person stop, then the group goes thru the stop sign, for example. If you waited for each biker to uncleat their foot, stop, re-cleat, slowly gear up, etc. it would take forever, and you'd have cars trying to pass the group, honking their horns, slamming on brakes, etc. It would be a nightmare for everyone concerned.

:bigbow:

Here is a good video of being mad the cyclist are on the road. Instead of just going around have to make a deal of it..

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fwnAbcmWrCA]Driver harasses cyclists as cameras roll - YouTube[/ame]

I'll remember that next time your behind a pack of 30 bikes and we all stop one at a time. I hope your not in a hurry.

This will never be resolved not matter what changes take place because people like to b**ch about stuff. It's in their nature. The Villages is for everyone to use and share and until we realize this, there will always be problems.

You know, I have to ask... how many times have you actually been held up by a pack of cyclists? Geez, c'mon. Maybe once a week, or less. Actually, I may see two packs a week, but I've never been held up by them. I'm all in favor of following the traffic laws, but if 30 of them are stopping one by one at a stop sign as opposed to going through it as a group, that's going to make me late for pickle ball.

Good point, Dave! I do wish, however, that Florida traffic law reflected this sensible approach.

By the way, from the sound of your handle (Bentboy), am I correct in assuming you ride a recumbent? I ride a recumbent trike.

I ride a recumbent trike usually only around my neighborhood. I stay away from the MM because it's just too dangerous and I get sick of smelling exhaust fumes. I also wear ear buds but I can hear all traffic approaching.

This all boils down to courtesy on the roads. Driving is a privilege and everyone has equal rights to the road.

and equal responsibility:bowdown:

Agreed!

The recommendation is for bicyclists to form a group at stop signs or traffic signals and proceed through as a group then separate into a line after the intersection. That makes great sense in that it meets the stopping requirement yet still allows the pack to stay together while not creating the jam of each cyclist stopping individually.

That makes perfect sense to me, but I can't see it in "The Florida Bicycle Law Enforcement Guide" or "Florida Bicycling Street Smarts"; two pamphlets put out by the Florida Bicycle Association.

I'm afraid to ask but.....what do they do with the paint?

Not being a cyclist, I looked at their website and I think it was there in a discussion about stop signs and groups of riders. I can't find it now.

Its a joke? Spray paint, mark your territory. Gangs? 65 or 70 year old bike gang members in the villages?

If ya have to explain it........

I should have checked this myself. I just visited flbikelaw.org and to my surprise the legal interpretation is that each bike (vehicle) has an individual requirement to come to a complete stop at a stop sign, regardless of their being in a group. The operative law is FS 316.123. Here's a link to the discussion of this topic: Cycling Groups at Stop Signs and Red Lights | Florida Bicycle Law
There are some exceptions to this requirement, but they don't seem to apply to every day situations.

To me, it doesn't make a lot of sense because, if strictly applied, car drivers following a large group would be severely inconvenienced as each bicyclist stopped consecutively, before proceeding through the intersection, rather than as a unit. I'm glad that I don't normally ride in such groups.

I got it right away - I would bet most did.

But wouldn't everyone be taking turns? Like, a cyclist stops, car goes, next car stops, cyclist goes, etc.? I still think it's ridiculous to make them all stop individually, but I don't see where this would hold up a car waiting at a stop sign.

If the car had the stop sign and the cyclists didn't, then too bad for the car. I've waited minutes to get a clear shot to turn left out of Tamarind Grove onnto St. Charles at "rush hour."

coffebean didn't.

I guess I wasn't as clear as I could have been. I was referring to the situation where the car(s) are behind the group of bicycles.

Now I feel foolish.

Okay, gotcha now.

The thing about Florida Automobile and Bicycle Laws is that they are only good if you follow them. There are two things I am 99% certain of and that is:

1. About a quarter of the drivers will speed up to pass a golf cart that is merging from the diamond lane to the road at a gate. It happened to me this AM on Bailey Trail. Yes I did give an ample warning with my left signal. No I did not use a hand signal also as I normally do because the sides wre down on my cart as it was cold outside.

2. About half of the cyclist here never slow down for the gate, at intersection etc and just glide on through because they don't want to lose their momentum.

How concerned am I? Very

Or, god forbid, have to put their feet down to dismount.:mad:

Which is why it makes sense to me for the cyclists to stop as a group, and proceed as a group when it is safe. This way no one is inconvenienced and traffic flow is optimized. Now if the first third of the group stops and the rest just follow on, I think there will be some upset people.

But it is not productive if cyclists and non-cyclists continue to paint everyone with the same brush. The relatively few on each side who display disdain for their fellow travelers should not spoil it for the rest. Share the road.

Agreed, particularly with respect to sharing the road.

Agree with Number 1.
Agree with Number 2 with this note: I sometime will move thru a gate with out stopping when you can go beside the gate in the cart lane and no other cars are going thru the gate. Most of the time, the gate keepers raise the arm for the cyclist so they do not have to stop and hold up traffic. When coming to stop sign sometimes when I know it is completely clear and no cross traffic I will proceed after slowing down, so I do know get ran over from behind. Which is a great chance of here in TV.

Perfect example: The cross street on CR-101 by the CVS. I do not know how many accidents they have there. Just had one the other day. Cars try to cross to continue down Wedgewood in front of Publix. They do not look to see who is coming. Very busy intersection and should not allow crossing there. But to make it to the point, Car shot across the road and luckily the car in front of me, T-Bone the lady in the door, if not she would have hit the motorcycle in the other lane.
That is how dangerous it is here. One person complains about the Cars. Another about the Golf Carts. Then someone complains about the cyclist. Never amazes me that the most complaints are the cars that think cyclist are not allowed on the roads. Everyone needs to slow down and watch.
On my bike I try to watch everyone. But I will tell you, go out on a bike and you will see some of the wildest stuff people here will do in a car and golf cart. Instead on getting on here and ranting and raving, try to understand the situation when you are in it. Just like complaining about the pack of cyclist going thru a stop sign together. I posted the other day about how 18 of us lined up at a stop sign and went thru one at a time. We got yelled at for holding up the cars. Had no idea that only cars have rights here in TV.
For Goodness sake it is a retirement community. Relax sit back, enjoy the sights,, Rollerblade on the MMP's, get out and walk. Everyone just relax... Enjoy life here in THE VILLAGES..

LOL...hmm...guess I'm not the only one aggravated by a bicyclist with their head up there butt.

When I'm biking on the road I do obey the rules of the road. Lived many years in self proclaimed bicycling capital :) You obey road signs just as if you're driving. When in a group you remain single file not to cause problems or impede the flow of traffic. That's one biggie I've noticed down here. I've seen two bicyclists riding side by side taking up an entire lane not to mention the packs. So fellow bicyclists...come on now get with it :) I still think the multi lanes are far far more safer than the roads. Even with the golf carts. Oh and something I should mention I saw a motor scooter on the multi path the other day buzzing along. Had to check into that one out of curiousity....nope they're not allowed because they are consider vehicular. So if you all know anyone doing it you might let them know.. I think that was on the district site.

.
Please cite your source. I think I read somewhere that if it is a 49CC scooter or less, and obeys the speed, then they are allowed on the MM.

Under some circumstances it is legal and not an inconvenience to motor vehicles for cyclists to ride 2 abreast or, otherwise, take the lane. The applicable law is FL316.2065(6). I'll quote from the Florida Bicycle Law Enforcement Guide: "In a lane "too narrow for a bicycle and another vehicle to travel safely side by side" passing cyclists "at a safe distance" requires use of the next lane. In this case, cyclists riding two abreast cause no additional impediment to traffic."

The Florida standard width for a lane that allows a motor vehicle and a bike to share a lane is 14 feet (the area to the right of the white line does not count). There are quite a few roads here in TV that are less than that width.

[QUOTE=ureout;525815]This morning I was riding my bike on the Buena Vista multi modal path near the Bel Air entrance. A bicycle club passed me, about 20 riders. As they were going past me 2 riders shook there heads and pointed at there ears because I was listening to my I pod and then a 3rd rider near the end of the pack yelled at me saying listening to that is illegal!!! Now here is the good part just up ahead the trail merges with the entrance road and there is a BIG RED STOP SIGN that all 20 bikers decided to just blow right thru it....I guess when you are in an offical bike club you get to pick and choose the rules of the road you wish to adhere

I would say both things are dangerous. Blowing a stop sign and listening to an I pod while on your bike. Please be careful ,enjoy the beautiful scenery .