Talk of The Villages Florida

Talk of The Villages Florida (https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/)
-   The Villages, Florida, General Discussion (https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/villages-florida-general-discussion-73/)
-   -   The Boundaries of Freedom (https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/villages-florida-general-discussion-73/boundaries-freedom-305405/)

VillageLiberal 04-19-2020 09:41 AM

Boomers
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Windguy (Post 1749235)
The answer is a definite NO. It is not your responsibility to keep someone else safe. However, it is your responsibility to avoid doing things that endanger others. By spraying C-19 germs around, your are endangering others.

Let's look at a couple of related moral examples.

Suppose you are rushing down the sidewalk so you don't miss the bus to work. You see a child start to chase a ball into the street just as a car is coming. Is it your responsibility to stop that child from running into the street even though you might be late for the bus? I wouldn't think it was my responsibility, but it would be the moral thing to do. Maybe you would think that it's just fate and that life isn't fair. The kid just won the Darwin award. How would you feel if a stranger let your child die because it wasn't their responsibility? Bitter?

Suppose you are rushing to the train station in your car and were worried that you might miss the train. Now, suppose a child chases a ball into the street. Is it your responsibility to slam on the brakes to avoid hitting the child? Or, is it infringing on your rights to get to the station on time because stopping to avoid killing the child might make you miss the train?

Great post! Unfortunately since the younger folks tend not to die from the Coronavirus, AKA "Chinese Virus", thier attitude seems to be "screw you boomer, I'm going to the beach, sucks to be you". I believe in karma.

Grill Meister 04-19-2020 09:42 AM

I understand the frustrations that we all share and I understand that in our current situation our life style will and have to change drastically. I know that it hurts to have such a negative impact on ones economy and income. Fortunately, I am not impacted by the economic downturn and so many businesses have to shut their doors and deprive themselves and their employees of income. I also personally feel that I would rather suffer through this situation than to have someone infect the ones I love. I just could not live with that. All that being said, please let me put the situation in a different perspective, which I hope will ameliorate the suffering, pain and frustration:

A DIFFERENT PERSPECTIVE........
1. There are no bombs raining on our heads
2. I am not a prisoner held in solitary confinement, as millions are.
3. I am not a refugee trying to escape with my life.
4. I am not standing in line waiting to fill a pot of water.
5. I have access to fresh food and I'm not starving.
6. I have hot running water.
7. My country has not been ruined by years of war.
8. I can reach my friends by phone and check in on them.
9. My friends check in on me because they care about me.
10. Any whiplash I feel about this strange turn of events is itself a sign of privilege.
11. More than half of the world would gladly trade their everyday problems for the modest inconveniences I am experiencing.
12. I may have anxious dreams but I'm dreaming them on a proper bed and I'm not sleeping on the sidewalk.
13. By staying at home, I'm helping the planet rest.
14. As long as I have my mind I can create, imagine, dream and not be lonely.
15. This global crisis connects me to people around the world and reminds me of our common humanity. This is a good thing.
16. When something tragic happens to another country next time, I will respond to it not with superiority, but humility and recognition. 17. I will fight for positive changes and economically just policies in my own country.
18. I am surrounded by books.
19. I am surrounded by love.
20. The tulips have already begun to bloom.

GoPacers 04-19-2020 09:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NJRICHARD (Post 1749221)
I see the beautiful golf courses CLOSED at 4:00...WHY, everything else is closed why not keep the only activity that is going strong open longer...maybe till 7:00pm. I went out on a course at 4:30, alone. It was as beautiful as ever, weather, sun going down, EMPTY! At the 6th hole the AMBASSADOR started YELLING at me. She told me there is a VIRUS going around....WOW!, didn't realize it!! She told me to immediately pick up my golf balls (2) AND NEVER DO THIS AGAIN!! I felt like I had to stand in the corner for an hour. Last time I looked we still pay our HOA FEE? IF, they reduce most of the activities in one area, why not increase them (GOLF) in another to off set it??

So, you knowingly broke the rules because YOU decided it was OK for YOU to do so...

Then, you call out the ambassador who is only trying to do their job? And we wonder why activities are closed or restricted because "some people" can't follow the rules???

MandoMan 04-19-2020 09:42 AM

When Shakespeare was writing plays and a part owner of the Globe Theatre across the Thames River from London, several times when there was a plague raging in London in the summer, the City Aldermen ordered all the playhouses closed as an aid to social distancing. Most of the actors fled town. Some playhouses went bankrupt. Was this a restriction of freedom? Yes! Was it moral? Yes!

In the great Italian writer Boccaccio’s masterwork, The Decameron, a bunch of people social distancing from the Bubonic Plague around 1348 entertained each other by telling stories. They had the money to flee to the country. Most people didn’t have that option. The tale tellers had the freedom to flee, and they fled. Most of us also have that freedom in The Villages. Other people have to work to serve us. They don’t have that freedom. Is our freedom moral? Yes. Is it moral to not do whatever we can to assure their health? No, that would be immoral.

There are many active diseases around the world that sometimes cause epidemics, and when they aren’t, it is usually because some people are giving up their freedom temporarily to prevent the spread of disease. For example, cholera, typhus, typhoid and malaria. Some of these still kill 300,000 or more people a year. They all have the potential to kill enormous numbers of people. Other diseases have come close to breaking loose and killing millions, but again were prevented because of thousands or millions who temporarily gave up freedoms, and thousands who risked their lives to care for people dying of these diseases, such as SARS, MERS, and Ebola. If everyone had insisted on having the freedom to go wherever they wanted, to visit sick patients as they lay dying, to maintain their usual funeral rites, many millions of people probably would have died.

The Villages pays for insecticidal spraying to decrease the number of mosquitoes and other nasty insects and the attendant diseases. Some people say that robs them of their freedom to not have insecticide on their lawns and shrubs. They say mosquitoes and other insects feed the birds. But sometimes there is a hedonic calculus (see the philosopher Jeremy Bentham—a favorite of Thomas Jefferson) that comes into play, letting us figure out what approach allows the most happiness and the least loss of freedom.

I’m a proud American, just like most of you, and I treasure my freedoms, just as you do, but I am also willing to temporarily surrender some freedoms in order to help others (and also myself) longer enjoy the pursuit of happiness. As far as I’m concerned, people who want to insist on their freedom to spread disease to others because temporary laws requiring social distancing, masks, and closed restaurants or golf courses restrict their precious American freedoms are immoral, un-American, and barely even human.

Go complain to General George Washington, who required that all of his troops at Valley Forge receive smallpox vaccinations, whether they wanted to or not. Several of these men died from the vaccinations, but possibly hundreds were saved.

VillageLiberal 04-19-2020 09:44 AM

Netflix
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Grill Meister (Post 1749245)
I understand the frustrations that we all share and I understand that in our current situation our life style will and have to change drastically. I know that it hurts to have such a negative impact on ones economy and income. Fortunately, I am not impacted by the economic downturn and so many businesses have to shut their doors and deprive themselves and their employees of income. I also personally feel that I would rather suffer through this situation than to have someone infect the ones I love. I just could not live with that. All that being said, please let me put the situation in a different perspective, which I hope will ameliorate the suffering, pain and frustration:

A DIFFERENT PERSPECTIVE........
1. There are no bombs raining on our heads
2. I am not a prisoner held in solitary confinement, as millions are.
3. I am not a refugee trying to escape with my life.
4. I am not standing in line waiting to fill a pot of water.
5. I have access to fresh food and I'm not starving.
6. I have hot running water.
7. My country has not been ruined by years of war.
8. I can reach my friends by phone and check in on them.
9. My friends check in on me because they care about me.
10. Any whiplash I feel about this strange turn of events is itself a sign of privilege.
11. More than half of the world would gladly trade their everyday problems for the modest inconveniences I am experiencing.
12. I may have anxious dreams but I'm dreaming them on a proper bed and I'm not sleeping on the sidewalk.
13. By staying at home, I'm helping the planet rest.
14. As long as I have my mind I can create, imagine, dream and not be lonely.
15. This global crisis connects me to people around the world and reminds me of our common humanity. This is a good thing.
16. When something tragic happens to another country next time, I will respond to it not with superiority, but humility and recognition. 17. I will fight for positive changes and economically just policies in my own country.
18. I am surrounded by books.
19. I am surrounded by love.
20. The tulips have already begun to bloom.

You forgot Netflix! That goodness for the Internet and Netflix.

Bogie Shooter 04-19-2020 09:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NJRICHARD (Post 1749221)
The pools provide exercise for people unable to run or walk. I for one have lower back issues. The only exercise that keeps the pain away is swimming laps/walking in the pool. Now that the snow-birds are gone OPEN UP THE POOLS. The volley ball, sports activities will have to wait. BUT the pools are not crowded this time of the year and those who want to sun bathe can alternate lounge chairs.

I see the beautiful golf courses CLOSED at 4:00...WHY, everything else is closed why not keep the only activity that is going strong open longer...maybe till 7:00pm. I went out on a course at 4:30, alone. It was as beautiful as ever, weather, sun going down, EMPTY! At the 6th hole the AMBASSADOR started YELLING at me. She told me there is a VIRUS going around....WOW!, didn't realize it!! She told me to immediately pick up my golf balls (2) AND NEVER DO THIS AGAIN!! I felt like I had to stand in the corner for an hour. Last time I looked we still pay our HOA FEE? IF, they reduce most of the activities in one area, why not increase them (GOLF) in another to off set it??

So the rules don't apply to you?

billethkid 04-19-2020 09:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoPacers (Post 1749246)
So, you knowingly broke the rules because YOU decided it was OK for YOU to do so...

Then, you call out the ambassador who is only trying to do their job? And we wonder why activities are closed or restricted because "some people" can't follow the rules???

like stop signs and speed limit signs, no enforcement = no penalty = no fear = the violations will continue.....

Windguy 04-19-2020 10:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NJRICHARD (Post 1749221)
I see the beautiful golf courses CLOSED at 4:00...WHY, everything else is closed why not keep the only activity that is going strong open longer...maybe till 7:00pm.

What I heard was that many of the starters and ambassadors are staying home to be safe and those that remain would have to work really long hours.

davidkath 04-19-2020 10:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by allus70 (Post 1749045)
The virus has killed more than 1,800 Americans almost every day since April 7, and the official toll may be an undercount.

By comparison, heart disease typically kills 1,774 Americans a day, and cancer kills 1,641.

The virus in now spreading to the suburbs and rural areas.

If you believe false or inaccurate statistics. VERY low percentages

Windguy 04-19-2020 10:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PugMom (Post 1749177)
speak to someone from a country with single payer & they can tell you they were happy to get out of a socialist 'paradise'

Gee. I have a Canadian friend who hates going home every summer but won't move permanently to the US because she is afraid to lose her great healthcare. 90% of the foreigners I know or meet while travelling are astonished at just how stupid we are.

I guess we hang out in different circles.

Fred2016 04-19-2020 10:19 AM

I guess when you drive or ride in your car you don’t bother wearing your seat belt. What the hell, live on the wild side.

OrangeBlossomBaby 04-19-2020 10:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Windguy (Post 1749272)
What I heard was that many of the starters and ambassadors are staying home to be safe and those that remain would have to work really long hours.

Yup. They can't go home until all the carts have been returned and sanitized, and the starters have brought any money collected to wherever it's supposed to end up in some semi-central location (I don't know the details on this but the Ambassadors have to sometimes escort the starters so obviously it involves "somewhere else.")

The Ambassadors are supposed to be out on the course, making sure that the folks who went out at the end of the tee-time schedule are moving at a reasonable pace. So if they see someone who wasn't ON that schedule, in the middle of the course, then yeah they would be right in telling that person to get off the course.

If you didn't schedule a tee time, it means you went unauthorized onto a course that was still technically open for business (the tee times stop at 4 - the course remains open until the last golfer has returned from their play).

Those are the people who create the problems - not just that the rules don't apply to them, but that the rules are wrong and shouldn't be followed at all.

That is why the rules are enforced more strictly, and new rules made with more severe consequences.

You want your freedoms back? Then exercise some self-restraint. If you are incapable of behaving like an adult, then expect to be treated like a child.

karostay 04-19-2020 10:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Twiganne (Post 1749117)
Notice how the two states, CA and NY, are squealing for a bailout. Hmmm. Sounds like the governors are not managing their budgets very well. NY and CA have the highest taxes yet have spent it all on ridiculous projects or sanctuary cities. Why should be bail them out when they squandered all of the money in taxes. Seems to me if the federal government bails them out it will never create an incentive for them to manage their budgets responsibility.

The 2 most clueless Governors in the US Oh! and throw Conn in there while your at it

Bill1701 04-19-2020 10:24 AM

While I agree that the courses should remain open after 4, the reason they are not has to do with staffing. There are simply not enough workers to keep them going in the evenings. It has nothing to do with the virus except that many workers are staying home. The rules are clearly posted. No one is allowed to start on the courses after 4.

popbaby2 04-19-2020 10:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Windguy (Post 1749272)
What I heard was that many of the starters and ambassadors are staying home to be safe and those that remain would have to work really long hours.

So they should hire more ambassadors. I’m not playing but i live on a golf course, and all the players i see are practicing social distancing. I wear a mask when i (rarely) go out, and support the quarantine, but golf should not be limited by the absence of ambassadors.


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