Talk of The Villages Florida
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Talk of The Villages Florida (https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/)
-   The Villages, Florida, General Discussion (https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/villages-florida-general-discussion-73/)
-   -   The Developer Trying To Kill Spanish Springs? (https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/villages-florida-general-discussion-73/developer-trying-kill-spanish-springs-331547/)

njbchbum 04-29-2022 03:12 PM
Save the Spanish Springs Town Square!

Save Spanish Springs | from The Villages

jricci13 04-29-2022 04:01 PM
I heard about the apartments being built, taking away the parking away Spanish Springs…
We are being over abused by people from outside communities such as Stone Crest, Recreation Plantation , Hilltop Estates and all the others that are getting through with their golf carts and already taking up our spaces, using all of the recreation with guest passes from someone that lives in the villages, and using all the tee-times on our monthly CDD FEES… and now we’re going to have tenants that we retrieve no income from that are gonna be taking the remaining few parking spaces that are left in the square.
I phoned the Villages CDD and the supervisor treated me as if I had no right to complain. It’s almost like it’s just turned into a money making business for the Morse family and everyone else in the developing business, and the owners have no say anymore.

Bogie Shooter 04-29-2022 04:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jricci13 (Post 2090379)
I heard about the apartments being built, taking away the parking away Spanish Springs…
We are being over abused by people from outside communities such as Stone Crest, Recreation Plantation , Hilltop Estates and all the others that are getting through with their golf carts and already taking up our spaces
You know this as a fact or just reading opinion posts?

, using all of the recreation with guest passes from someone that lives in the villages,
Again where does this come from?

and using all the tee-times on our monthly CDD FEES…
You meant amenity fees right....you do know what they are?

and now we’re going to have tenants that we retrieve no income from
How do you know they will not be paying amenity fees?

that are gonna be taking the remaining few parking spaces that are left in the square.
How do you determine "few remaining"?

I phoned the Villages CDD and the supervisor treated me as if I had no right to complain.
If you used the above points, anybody would wonder where you were coming from.

It’s almost like it’s just turned into a money making business for the Morse family

Guess what, they are in the business to make money.......

and everyone else in the developing business,
Yep.

and the owners have no say anymore.
I been here 20 years, I cannot recall where any owners had any say in how The Villages was to be developed.


I am going to make an assumption, that you joined TOTV when you arrived. If so, you need more than a year to really know what is going on.

Bilyclub 04-29-2022 04:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jricci13 (Post 2090379)
I heard about the apartments being built, taking away the parking away Spanish Springs…
We are being over abused by people from outside communities such as Stone Crest, Recreation Plantation , Hilltop Estates and all the others that are getting through with their golf carts and already taking up our spaces, using all of the recreation with guest passes from someone that lives in the villages, and using all the tee-times on our monthly CDD FEES… and now we’re going to have tenants that we retrieve no income from that are gonna be taking the remaining few parking spaces that are left in the square.
I phoned the Villages CDD and the supervisor treated me as if I had no right to complain. It’s almost like it’s just turned into a money making business for the Morse family and everyone else in the developing business, and the owners have no say anymore.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bogie Shooter (Post 2090382)
I been here 20 years, I cannot recall where any owners had any say in how The Villages was to be developed.


I am going to make an assumption, that you joined TOTV when you arrived. If so, you need more than a year to really know what is going on.


I'll take issue with the amenity fee statement. The developer still has the 150 free amenity fees from the AAC for the Hacienda Clubhouse to apartment building fiasco.

Joe V. 04-29-2022 04:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jricci13 (Post 2090379)
I heard about the apartments being built, taking away the parking away Spanish Springs…
We are being over abused by people from outside communities such as Stone Crest, Recreation Plantation , Hilltop Estates and all the others that are getting through with their golf carts and already taking up our spaces, using all of the recreation with guest passes from someone that lives in the villages, and using all the tee-times on our monthly CDD FEES… and now we’re going to have tenants that we retrieve no income from that are gonna be taking the remaining few parking spaces that are left in the square.
I phoned the Villages CDD and the supervisor treated me as if I had no right to complain. It’s almost like it’s just turned into a money making business for the Morse family and everyone else in the developing business, and the owners have no say anymore.
The developer is in the business to make money.

JSR22 04-29-2022 05:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bilyclub (Post 2090386)
I'll take issue with the amenity fee statement. The developer still has the 150 free amenity fees from the ACC for the Hacienda Clubhouse fiasco.
Hacienda was not an amenity.

manaboutown 04-29-2022 05:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrianL99 (Post 2089798)
Personally, think a San Francisco theme would be comparatively less capital intensive and would be reasonable consistent with the surrounding area.
To do that the developer would have to bring in megatons of dirt to build hills, maybe put in tracks and a cable car and build a miniature Golden Gate Bridge. Oh, bringing in a bunch of homeless to panhandle, shoot up drugs in public and do their business in the streest would help authenticate it as San Francisco today.

BostonRich 04-29-2022 06:21 PM
Katie Belle Food Court
 
I wonder if a food court type of operation, like that being built at Sawgrass Grove, would work in the Katie Belles space?

jricci13 04-29-2022 06:53 PM
I love the Spanish theme. I live a half of a half a mile from there are times when it’s packed with people. I just think as you go farther south and tends to be a younger crowd all day long. Spanish Spring drives in a lot of the locals late at night.

Nucky 04-29-2022 07:20 PM
The Developer Trying To Kill Spanish Springs? Can I present one simple question, please? Have some of our valued neighbors lost your damn minds? You don't want people walking their dogs on your property but telling someone else what to do with Real Estate that they have owned since the earth was flat is okay? Sorry but that doesn't compute. What's even crazier is that the demise of Spanish Springs is a figment of someone's immagination who has to much time on their hands.

Stop the foolishness. We are coming out of the biggest disaster of the last 100 years. Cut out stirring up something that doesn't exist or is none of your business!

OrangeBlossomBaby 04-29-2022 08:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nucky (Post 2090418)
The Developer Trying To Kill Spanish Springs? Can I present one simple question, please? Have some of our valued neighbors lost your damn minds? You don't want people walking their dogs on your property but telling someone else what to do with Real Estate that they have owned since the earth was flat is okay? Sorry but that doesn't compute. What's even crazier is that the demise of Spanish Springs is a figment of someone's immagination who has to much time on their hands.

Stop the foolishness. We are coming out of the biggest disaster of the last 100 years. Cut out stirring up something that doesn't exist or is none of your business!
I don't know about you Nucky, but as a resident, homeowner, taxpayer, and registered voter of the town of Lady Lake, in Lake County, the development of residential units in a commercial zone in the town of Lady Lake, in Lake County, is my business.

The restaurant that we enjoyed, Gator's Dockside, is at risk of closing for good due to lack of people to work the closing shift. That will negatively affect the Square. It's not the Developer's fault, but it is a "thing" that's going on there. It'll be one more business closed, on one more corner immediately adjacent to the public square area. The Rialto is closed. Gator's might close. The Square is experiencing problems, and adding 7 residential units to a commercial zone is not the answer.

Laker14 04-29-2022 08:55 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by OrangeBlossomBaby (Post 2090431)
I don't know about you Nucky, but as a resident, homeowner, taxpayer, and registered voter of the town of Lady Lake, in Lake County, the development of residential units in a commercial zone in the town of Lady Lake, in Lake County, is my business.

The restaurant that we enjoyed, Gator's Dockside, is at risk of closing for good due to lack of people to work the closing shift. That will negatively affect the Square. It's not the Developer's fault, but it is a "thing" that's going on there. It'll be one more business closed, on one more corner immediately adjacent to the public square area. The Rialto is closed. Gator's might close. The Square is experiencing problems, and adding 7 residential units to a commercial zone is not the answer.
If the old model were working, it would still be making money for the owners of the property. Businesses seldom disappear unless they aren't profitable enough to justify the work, and the risk. It seems obvious to me that the businesses that have closed closed due to not making enough money.
It is someone's job to make that space as profitable as possible. Unfortunately for those who would prefer to have things there remain as they were 20 years ago, some things are influencing decisions away from that. One is that the old model isn't generating enough cash flow to justify keeping it, and, here's the scary one: since the owners of that property are no longer trying to sell new developments in that area, it no longer is of benefit to them as a lure to bring in new Villagers.
They are likely trying to generate the maximum cash flow they can, and in true capitalist fashion, don't give a hoot about how it affects the lifestyle of the neighbors, or the value of their homes. In fact, by making the neighborhood less desirable to prospective buyers, it funnels more buyers to the newer sections.

One of my misgivings about buying in TV was the fact that if I chose to sell someday, I would be in competition with the developer, and I'd lose. But I did it anyway.

The more they invest in building in the south, the less motivated they will be to keep the north attractive.
That's just my opinion. Maybe the family doesn't feel that way. Maybe they feel a debt of gratitude to the people who bought into Gary Morse's dream. Maybe they do. I would hope so, but, they didn't all get to be billionaires by being driven my sentimentality.

Bilyclub 04-29-2022 09:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JSR22 (Post 2090390)
Hacienda was not an amenity.

Didn't say it was, but if you recall the AAC voted to give the developer 150 amenity fees for free for their apartments planned on the Hacienda site.

dewilson58 04-30-2022 05:55 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by OrangeBlossomBaby (Post 2090431)
........is my business. The Square is experiencing problems, and adding 7 residential units to a commercial zone is not the answer.
Empty vs. Apartments (it's probably for sale) those are the choices now............unless you are going to tell a company how to run their business.

Stu from NYC 04-30-2022 06:13 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dewilson58 (Post 2090473)
Empty vs. Apartments (it's probably for sale) those are the choices now............unless you are going to tell a company how to run their business.
Wonder just how expensive rents are in the squares? Outside strip malls on 27/441 seem to be pretty full.

dewilson58 04-30-2022 06:17 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stu from NYC (Post 2090484)
Wonder just how expensive rents are in the squares? Outside strip malls on 27/441 seem to be pretty full.
Jus like living inside TV, probably higher than outside TV.

Papa_lecki 04-30-2022 06:18 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stu from NYC (Post 2090484)
Wonder just how expensive rents are in the squares? Outside strip malls on 27/441 seem to be pretty full.
They also seem to be very busy and full.
Rents are rents, they are charging what the market will bear. Maybe there’s a premium because the real estate is golf car accessible. If that doesn’t warrant a rent premium, it will not be charged.

Maybe the problem is us (the residents), do we eat at all the restaurants often or do we get bad service one time write a bad review and never go back again? How much did you spend at the retails shop in SS last year?

Stu from NYC 04-30-2022 07:46 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Papa_lecki (Post 2090490)
They also seem to be very busy and full.
Rents are rents, they are charging what the market will bear. Maybe there’s a premium because the real estate is golf car accessible. If that doesn’t warrant a rent premium, it will not be charged.

Maybe the problem is us (the residents), do we eat at all the restaurants often or do we get bad service one time write a bad review and never go back again? How much did you spend at the retails shop in SS last year?
If your asking how much I spent at the SS retail shops probably very little. Now my wife would be another story.

vintageogauge 04-30-2022 08:29 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Papa_lecki (Post 2090490)
They also seem to be very busy and full.
Rents are rents, they are charging what the market will bear. Maybe there’s a premium because the real estate is golf car accessible. If that doesn’t warrant a rent premium, it will not be charged.

Maybe the problem is us (the residents), do we eat at all the restaurants often or do we get bad service one time write a bad review and never go back again? How much did you spend at the retails shop in SS last year?
I've been to all of the restaurants in all 3 squares and don't think I ever had an experience in any of them that would stop me from going back. I like to give restaurants a second chance, even a third. Sometimes they end up being one of my favorites. What I won't do on a square is wait in line to get a drink from the booze huts. If there is no line I go in otherwise I'll go to City Fire or one of the others with outside bars for drinks. We also buy from the retail stores, shoes, clothing, home decor, etc. it's nice to have them around.

OrangeBlossomBaby 04-30-2022 09:22 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Papa_lecki (Post 2090490)
They also seem to be very busy and full.
Rents are rents, they are charging what the market will bear. Maybe there’s a premium because the real estate is golf car accessible. If that doesn’t warrant a rent premium, it will not be charged.

Maybe the problem is us (the residents), do we eat at all the restaurants often or do we get bad service one time write a bad review and never go back again? How much did you spend at the retails shop in SS last year?
We go to the squares fairly regularly. We were getting wings at Gator's almost weekly, until the unemployment incentives tanked their employee roster and their service and wait-time for food was significantly reduced. But we did still go. Just not as often. We also enjoy World of Beer, we were just there this past week in fact. I love the waffle cones at Kilwins and sometimes will go in just to buy a cone, even if I'm not in the mood for ice cream.

I check the shops for clearance sales in case there's a shirt or pair of shorts they're trying to get rid of. A few nice things but 50% of $160 is still more than I'll ever pay for a shirt. When it gets down to under $20 I try it on.

We also go to the squares to listen to music and dance on occasion and always get drinks at the huts.

I also like checking out the craft fairs, though seeing the same vendors over and over again is kinda uninspiring. Once in awhile I'll buy something, usually a soap, or a packet of spice. Actually hoping the Vermont maple syrup people come back soon, we're almost out and we don't use "pancake" syrup or "table" syrup. Maple syrup in the stores is stupidly expensive and that vendor's prices are actually reasonable.

rustyp 04-30-2022 09:30 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MartinSE (Post 2090159)
It does seem that no one is talking about if property owned by the developers (I assume this is, if not, the entire conversation makes no sense) should not be allowed to be repurposed if the developers are not making as much money as they would like to from that property.

For people that seem to enjoy capitalism, that enjoyment only extends to what they think a company should do?
And now for the rest of the story:

The area is zoned by Lady Lake as commercial not residential. The developer in essence is asking to change the law for their particular interests (a variance) thus in this case the developer is not allowed to do whatever they wish carte blanche with "their property". Only within the law. The citizens of Lady Lake have every right to their input to the change. The elected officials have an obligation to make a decision that will ultimately benefit all the citizens.

vintageogauge 04-30-2022 10:32 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by rustyp (Post 2090583)
And now for the rest of the story:

The area is zoned by Lady Lake as commercial not residential. The developer in essence is asking to change the law for their particular interests (a variance) thus in this case the developer is not allowed to do whatever they wish carte blanche with "their property". Only within the law. The citizens of Lady Lake have every right to their input to the change. The elected officials have an obligation to make a decision that will ultimately benefit all the citizens.
However, everyone knows including our elected officials that there is always something in their back pocket that will not make their residents happy and would not require a variance. Local Government 101.

kansasr 04-30-2022 10:37 AM
I do find it interesting, with all the uproar over what's happening in Spanish Springs, that SUDDENLY there's a front page article in the Daily Sun about how wonderful things are in Spanish Springs......

MartinSE 04-30-2022 10:41 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by rustyp (Post 2090583)
And now for the rest of the story:

The area is zoned by Lady Lake as commercial not residential. The developer in essence is asking to change the law for their particular interests (a variance) thus in this case the developer is not allowed to do whatever they wish carte blanche with "their property". Only within the law. The citizens of Lady Lake have every right to their input to the change. The elected officials have an obligation to make a decision that will ultimately benefit all the citizens.
I completely agree, ANY business can only do what they want within the law. I would think that would "go without saying" but I guess in todays world that might be a bad assumption.

And elected officials always SHOULD do what is in their constituents best interest. Yup...

I am not familiar with the conditions around the Squares (north or south) do the dev's maintain ownership of the Squares? If so, are there any agreements in the purchase agreement for a house in an area with a square?

Stu from NYC 04-30-2022 11:43 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kansasr (Post 2090608)
I do find it interesting, with all the uproar over what's happening in Spanish Springs, that SUDDENLY there's a front page article in the Daily Sun about how wonderful things are in Spanish Springs......
Well the developer told them to do so in order help the rest of us think life is wonderful in SS.

rustyp 04-30-2022 11:49 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MartinSE (Post 2090610)
I completely agree, ANY business can only do what they want within the law. I would think that would "go without saying" but I guess in todays world that might be a bad assumption.

And elected officials always SHOULD do what is in their constituents best interest. Yup...

I am not familiar with the conditions around the Squares (north or south) do the dev's maintain ownership of the Squares? If so, are there any agreements in the purchase agreement for a house in an area with a square?
If apartments were allowed why would the developer be applying for a change in zoning law?

tophcfa 04-30-2022 01:07 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MartinSE (Post 2090610)
I completely agree, ANY business can only do what they want within the law. I would think that would "go without saying" but I guess in todays world that might be a bad assumption?
Those with deep enough pockets and extensive political influence typically don’t take no for an answer and can find ways to make their desires and the law come into alignment.

MartinSE 04-30-2022 01:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tophcfa (Post 2090660)
Those with deep enough pockets and extensive political influence typically don’t take no for an answer and can find ways to make their desires and the law come into alignment.
Sadly, I can't disagree with you. Imagine a world where money could not influence law.

vintageogauge 04-30-2022 01:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MartinSE (Post 2090664)
Sadly, I can't disagree with you. Imagine a world where money could not influence law.
Right, that would be like having a billionaire President somewhere in the world.

Stu from NYC 04-30-2022 01:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tophcfa (Post 2090660)
Those with deep enough pockets and extensive political influence typically don’t take no for an answer and can find ways to make their desires and the law come into alignment.
The developer sure has a lot of influence within the state.

dewilson58 04-30-2022 02:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by rustyp (Post 2090583)
The elected officials have an obligation to make a decision that will ultimately benefit all the citizens.
Exactly, not jus the whiny few.

Nucky 04-30-2022 02:59 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by OrangeBlossomBaby (Post 2090431)
I don't know about you Nucky, but as a resident, homeowner, taxpayer, and registered voter of the town of Lady Lake, in Lake County, the development of residential units in a commercial zone in the town of Lady Lake, in Lake County, is my business.

The restaurant that we enjoyed, Gator's Dockside, is at risk of closing for good due to lack of people to work the closing shift. That will negatively affect the Square. It's not the Developer's fault, but it is a "thing" that's going on there. It'll be one more business closed, on one more corner immediately adjacent to the public square area. The Rialto is closed. Gator's might close. The Square is experiencing problems, and adding 7 residential units to a commercial zone is not the answer.
It's not that much of a problem either. If these residential units take down Spanish Springs then there was something much deeper that was wrong in the first place.

I'm surprised that people who normally stand up for other people's rites don't see that they are running a BUSINESS. That is strictly about making money. The way I see it is that is all they are trying to do. They are not out to personally hurt anyone of us.

Too Jay's closed and another joint opened up. The same thing will happen if Gators closes. Life will go on, I'll go to the square when there is a band we like and so on and so forth. I won't boycott or worry about SEVEN apartments.

All the complaining and crying started when the 2 for 1 drinks stopped. Has anyone ever put that together?

I wonder how much the income decreased for the landlords all over The Villages during the height of COVID? They are scrambling to recover. Private landlords and The Developer.

If so many businesses are going to be closing then the parking for these apartments won't be an issue.

My opinion is not popular and if the apartments are blocked then that's the way it was supposed to be and I'll accept it without one single tear. I'm grateful to be up at the Square fighting for my parking spot instead of hanging at the house. :1rotfl:

Laker14 04-30-2022 03:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by golfing eagles (Post 2090708)
Better a billionaire than an idiot:1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:
sometimes you get two birds with one stone.

tophcfa 04-30-2022 04:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stu from NYC (Post 2090678)
The developer sure has a lot of influence within the state.
There are a couple of former county commissioners that would definitely agree with your statement.

coffeebean 04-30-2022 05:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tophcfa (Post 2089813)
The tale of three Villages. The folks in the southern area are waiting for stuff to be built, the folks in the northern area are hoping the stuff that already has been built won’t continue to be torn down or repurposed, and the folks in the center area are currently as content as a clam during high tide.
Consider me a contended clam. LOL.

Stu from NYC 04-30-2022 07:14 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tophcfa (Post 2090742)
There are a couple of former county commissioners that would definitely agree with your statement.
And the third one just elected may have been seduced by the dark side.

OrangeBlossomBaby 04-30-2022 07:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by rustyp (Post 2090583)
And now for the rest of the story:

The area is zoned by Lady Lake as commercial not residential. The developer in essence is asking to change the law for their particular interests (a variance) thus in this case the developer is not allowed to do whatever they wish carte blanche with "their property". Only within the law. The citizens of Lady Lake have every right to their input to the change. The elected officials have an obligation to make a decision that will ultimately benefit all the citizens.
...and on the eighth day, god created money.
...and on the ninth day, god created lobbies.

yellowtownhouse 04-30-2022 10:55 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by golfing eagles (Post 2090274)
If only any of us knew the developers plans for that area. But we don't, it's all conjecture and speculation.

Where's Graciegirl when we need her?:1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:
Where IS Gracie Girl? You are sorely MISSED!!

Get real 05-01-2022 04:48 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by yellowtownhouse (Post 2090800)
Where IS Gracie Girl? You are sorely MISSED!!
I heard she was busy moving into her new apartment at SS.

Marathon Man 05-01-2022 06:43 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Number 10 GI (Post 2089921)
"The Developer Trying To Kill Spanish Springs"? Please explain how it will benefit the developer to kill Spanish Springs. Makes no sense to me but maybe someone can draw a color picture explanation. If anything it is the Villagers who are killing the town square by not patronizing the businesses that are there.

Research how cities are trying to revitalize downtown areas. These studies have shown that for the downtown area of a city to survive is that there need to be people living in the downtown to patronize the businesses. The downtown area of Nashville, Tennessee used to be a ghost town after 5:00PM when all the office workers quit for the day. A developer realized the opportunity and built a high rise apartment building right in the downtown and all of a sudden more stores opened in previously vacant buildings. Since then more condos and apartment buildings have been built and a whole lot of people are patronizing the downtown businesses and many new businesses have opened. Lots of people like to live where the "action" is and being right on the square appeals to them. Just because you wouldn't like it doesn't mean others feel that way.

As to the comment that after 11:00 PM Spanish Springs is totally empty, so are the other town squares. This is a community of old folks and most of us can't or don't want to party much after 10:00PM.

Had another thought. My understanding is the second floor of these building were originally set up for businesses but apparently there wasn't enough customer support by Villagers to patronize potential business people renting the space. So is the developer supposed to suck it up and eat the revenue loss? That sounds like great business advice.

So many wannabe financial and community development experts on this forum.
Well said.

The fact that "The Developer" is willing to invest money to put apartments in tells me that "The Developer" is actually trying to SAVE Spanish Springs.


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