Re: Fence being removed by Lake Sumter Landing where buffalo were!
 

When I look at open land in the TV area, if it is not a wildlife preserve and not a golf course, I assume that it will at some point be developed. That's the nature of the beast and as some have pointed out, along with development comes many positives.

In our case, we will be looking out over Rooseveldt golf course toward 466A. On the other side of 466A is open land. Our agent told us that eventually it will be developed "as houses". That's fine and to be expected. However, I am a bit concerned that "houses" may morph into McDonalds, Burger Kings and Home Depots. I am less fine with that concept, but I doubt that I would have any legal grounds to stand on in protesting a verbal comment made by a sales agent.

However, where I would draw the line with my level of acceptance is if the golf course, which I paid a hefty premium to be on and which the developer was willing to accept, turns into something other than a golf course. If that were to ever happen, I'm hoping that the number neighbors and fellow TVers willing to join in a legal battle would give the developer pause. In my mind, such a transformation clearly constitute fraud - when a developer makes a large profit selling a piece of land with a price premium for an amenity, there is an implicit understanding that that amenity will not be arbitrarily removed. But, until that happens, I am willing to give the Morse's the benefit of the doubt that their ethics are above that sort of thing.

Re: Fence being removed by Lake Sumter Landing where buffalo were!
 

Mr. Peachie and I received a resounding endorsement of The Villages while playing a round of golf with two golfers we met at tee time in April of this year. While waiting to tee at one of the holes, I asked one of the gentlemen how long he had lived in The Villages. He sheepishly admitted they had bought here several years ago but had moved away and then moved back. It appears that he and his wife were unhappy with the developer and left to live in another Florida golf community and then moved to another but nothing came close to what they had left. They returned to The Villages and they were not leaving again. That disclosure certainly made Mr. Peachie and me think we should keep drinking the water...

And think about those golf courses, I believe they are the biggest attraction to the area. Who the heck is going to buy homes or condos built on top of the golf course if there is no
golf or activity to interest them. Density can be found anywhere, amenities are what will draw future homeowners. Now if they find oil under the golf courses, they may have to drill but that's another thread :o

Re: Fence being removed by Lake Sumter Landing where buffalo were!
 

Well, what you say would be true if ALL of the golf courses were eliminated, but if they just eliminated one or two courses which could have far more value as say a shopping center or even more houses, they would still be able to advertise "free" golf as an amenity.

Re: Fence being removed by Lake Sumter Landing where buffalo were!
 

NJB - Don't some of the CC courses belong now to the CDDs? If so then the 'developer' can no longer sell them, they belong to us (through the CDD extension if you own in that district). Once all the courses and other amenity facilities have been sold over to the districts then the developer can not just build on them with other uses.

At least that is my take on the government of the future (and some present) in TV.

Re: Fence being removed by Lake Sumter Landing where buffalo were!
 

However Russ...

The developer could raze all the Rec Centers and Executive Golf Courses and build whatever he wants there.

This is a scenario I don't think for a minute would happen....but it could....since Morse owns all of these.

Re: Fence being removed by Lake Sumter Landing where buffalo were!
 

The Country Club golf courses and the polo fields are privately owned

Willy

Re: Fence being removed by Lake Sumter Landing where buffalo were!
 

Russ
This link might help
WILLY http://thevillagesfl.blogspot.com/20...executive.html

Re: Fence being removed by Lake Sumter Landing where buffalo were!
 

All very interesting, but if you want to know the future, just go to Bushnell to the "Planning and Zoning " department. They have the complete plan on file and it public record. It's call a DRI, its Directive of Regional Impact. This is the document that the developer must follow. It will tell you what will be residential, commercial etc. They can change this document, but must go through many hoops to do so. Hope this helps.

Re: Fence being removed by Lake Sumter Landing where buffalo were!
 

Brightspot:

Not entirely correct. The CDD's own the Executive Courses and the Recreation Centers. At least the ones that have been sold to the CDD's which is currently Districts 1-5. Future amenity sales will take place to purchase the newer ones.

The only golf courses the Developer owns are the Championship (Country Club) courses.

Re: Fence being removed by Lake Sumter Landing where buffalo were!
 

Forever_Villager...wrong, oh so, wrong

It's a question of what CDD's own what. The Central CDD's (Lake Sumter Landing and Spanish Springs...there IS a difference in CDDs) are owned by the owners of the land. Who owns the land there? The developer. Those 2 CDD's not only own all the land at both Squares but also own every single Executive Golf Course and every single Rec Center in the Villages.

If you don't believe me, then read the facts listed under "Links" at the top of this page: http://thevillagesfl.blogspot.com/20...executive.html

Re: Fence being removed by Lake Sumter Landing where buffalo were!
 

Here's a piece of the puzzle. When I was asking about the new Havana Country Club, I was told that the same people who own Cane Garden would be in charge of Havana. Well, I love Cane Garden, so I was very happy with that. They I asked who those people were, and the answer I got was "The Villages!" :dontknow:

Re: Fence being removed by Lake Sumter Landing where buffalo were!
 

That is beside the point. They are still owned by the CDD's, not the Developer. What you seem to be objecting to is the actual membership of the Board of Supervisors - elected versus appointed. That is dictated by FS Chapter 190, not the Developer. As majority landowner, yes, he appoints the Board members to the commercial districts and those numbered districts not yet populated by majority residential landowners.

But, a CDD is still a CDD regardless of the composition of the Board. All 12 CDD's still follow the same rules, regulations and state statutes. Additionally, CDD's are not allowed to reduce the "level of service" when an amenity sale takes place. Therefore, nothing will ever happen to the rec centers or the golf courses.

And, for clarification, they do not own the squares. They only maintain the squares with a maintenance assessment. The commercial properties within the squares pay this assessment. The squares are owned by the Developer, not the CDD's.

Re: Fence being removed by Lake Sumter Landing where buffalo were!
 

You are correct Forever Villager that the squares are owned by the developer along with all the other land that is part of the Central CDDs.

Now, let's discuss the CDD's. Who sits on the boards of the CDD's? Only those who are appointed by the majority landowner. Who is the majority landowner in the Central CDD's (Lake Sumter Landing and Spanish Springs)? The developer because he is the ONLY landowner. So, who basically "owns' the two Central CDD's? I don't think I need to answer that one. I'm sorry, but there IS a difference in the CDDs. Two are owned and controlled by the developer...the remaining CDDs are controlled and owned by the residents when the area has been built out. Don't tell me that you are going to say that a CDD is still a CDD. Maybe in definiton of the term but in actuality...here in The Villages, there IS a difference....based on who (how many) have ownership.

Repeating myself, you are correct with who owns the squares...they are owned by the CDD's that purchased them from the developer at his asking price without question (I'm supposing since they have purchased golf courses at his high inflated asking prices without question.).

You are probably going to misunderstand me but I'm in favor of Gary Morse and have no complaints with what he has accomplished. I applaud him and his father for all they have done for us. Without them, I wouldn't be the happy Villager I am today. All I'm doing here is educating you, and others about CDD's. Nothing more. It's the teacher in me.

Re: Fence being removed by Lake Sumter Landing where buffalo were!
 

I appreciate your efforts in "educating" me. Just for grins and giggles, call the District office in the morning and ask them who "owns" the squares. Better yet, check with the Clerk of Court for Lake and Sumter Counties. You will learn that it is the Villages of Lake-Sumter, Inc., not the CDD's. Any of the CDD's. Also, you shouldn't think about the center districts in terms of just the squares. The Village Center CDD is responsible for all amenities north of 466 and Sumter Landing is responsible for those amenities south of 466 that have been sold to the CDD (eventually it will be all areas except for Brownwood which will be a 13th CDD). Their only involvement in the actual squares (SS and LSL), again, is the maintenance (landscaping, janitorial, repair, etc.)

And, just out of curiosity, how did you learn about CDD's. Attend the CDD orientation? Read Chapter 190? Attend meetings? Talk to board members and District staff? I have done all of these and feel very comfortable in my knowldege of Chapter 190, The Florida Statues, the public records law and how the CDD's operate. It is the first "research" project I engaged in when moving here.

I have worked for both state and local municipalities my entire career. After watching those who run and operate the CDD's, they conduct themselves very much like any local governmental agency would. I must say, I have been quite impressed. I strongly urge anyone who doesn't understand them to get involved. It is easy to misunderstand how they work and it is easy to fall prey to "grapevine" politics. I have always learned it is best to go to the source. Cut out all of the speculation.

Re: Fence being removed by Lake Sumter Landing where buffalo were!
 

FYI..I read the links provided by TOTV and furthermore I was also involved in local and state politics for many years so am knowledgeable.

As I said earlier, I am happy in The Villages.

Continue to debate if you want, but I know what I know.

Re: Fence being removed by Lake Sumter Landing where buffalo were!
 

http://www.clipartof.com/images/emot..._in_a_book.gif

Confused me am.

Re: Fence being removed by Lake Sumter Landing where buffalo were!
 

I'll be following this project with interest cuz this wannabee would really love to live in a 3/2 cyv within walking distance to LSL.

Timing is everything ;D

Re: Fence being removed by Lake Sumter Landing where buffalo were!
 

It is not a crystal clear setup....


We pay amenity fees to the Central CDD for rec centers, pools, exec golf courses --- the fee is to payoff the initial purchase of the facility and provide for its ongoing maintenance and operation. This part is pretty clear to me.

These central CDDs are run by supervisors appointed by the Developer. Ok, again understood.

The Central CDD buys amenity facilities from the Developer as areas are built out. The really fuzzy part of this is who, at this point, owns the purchased amenities? The Central CDD is an entity, a business -- it is not us. So, we are more like club members paying a fee to use facilities rather than a condo association who actually owns the properties.

The squares are totally outside the purview of what the residents pay for. The central CDD may manage their maintenance but from funds collected from the developer and/or commercial tenants.

Forever_villager...thanks for your insights; it sounds like you have done extensive research on this topic. I'd be curious to hear your take on the process whereby the commercial CDD buys amenity facilities from the developer...how they set the value and whether the process seems fair.

I have great respect for the job done by the Developer to create the Villages. Everything runs very smoothly right now for what to me seems to be a very reasonable fee structure. My greatest hope is that it will always be a great value to live here and continue to be operated as efficiently as it is today...my biggest fear is that after buildout when the residents get more involved in government this vision may not hold forth or all of a sudden huge deferred maintenance expenses will be exposed.

You Have It Correct, 07
 

Think of it this way. If you were the developer and bore the costs of building all the golf courses and recreational facilities, how could you get your money back, yet still maintain control over their maintenance and the quality of the recreational programs?

Like a lot of other things in TV, I think it was a stroke of genius whereby the developer sold all the rec facilities and golf courses to the central CDD, which he controls because he owns all the commercial property in the central CDD's. (The voting rights for the CDD supervisors go to the property owner.) The central CDD's have bonding authority and issued bonds in an amount sufficient to pay off the developer. Our amenity fees are used to both provide for the rec activities as well as retire the bonds. The POA folks will differ with me because when sold, the developer clearly didn't provide enough money in a sinking fund for deferred maintenance. But even that's now corrected by the developer's agreement to settle the POA lawsuit before it went to trial.

In essence, the developer sold the golf courses and rec centers to himself, with the residents of TV providing the money with our amenities fees. If you think about it, if the family really "wanted out" of TV as we're now within 7-8 years of build-out, why wouldn't they have simply sold all those facilities and property to a new owner? The cash flows from those facilities are pretty significant and selling them would present no problem whatsoever. There would be all kinds of commercial real estate companies, pension funds, hedge funds, etc. who would have lined up to present a bid. That would really have been a risk to our lifestyle.

So to a degree, we have to have some confidence in the developer that he will do as he says he will, and not sell off all the commercial properties in the soon-to-be three central CDD's, thereby giving control of all the golf courses and rec centers to the new owner(s). He has said that TV is in the Morse family DNA and even though all the houses might be built, they'll still have a huge investment in the commercial properties in and surrounding TV and that they're not going anywhere.

Is the family legally bound by that statement? No. But until now, they have certainly conducted themselves admirably in creating a community with the lifestyle we all so enjoy. In my opinion, there's no more risk that there will be significant changes in our lifestyle or the costs of living here than there is in the communities we moved from. Frankly, there's probably less risk of something like that happening given the control of a responsible developer.