Every once in a while, you'll see someone waving on someone who does not have the right of way. This could be at a gate entrance when the cart has a stop sign and the car doesn't and the car waves the cart ahead, or at an intersection where opposing cars are stopped, one car signals for a left turn and the oncoming driver waves them ahead.

This is all very neighborly, but puts the driver who does not have the right of way in a precarious legal position if something happens. (And it gets drivers into a bad habit of proceeding when they don't have the right of way.)

I think we both have speculated and opinionated enough, so here are THE FACTS, from the Florida Statutes:

First: definition of a "highway:

(53) STREET OR HIGHWAY.—
(a) The entire width between the boundary lines of every way or place of whatever nature when any part thereof is open to the use of the public for purposes of vehicular traffic;
(b) The entire width between the boundary lines of any privately owned way or place used for vehicular travel by the owner and those having express or implied permission from the owner, but not by other persons, or any limited access road owned or controlled by a special district, whenever, by written agreement entered into under s. 316.006(2)(b) or (3)(b), a county or municipality exercises traffic control jurisdiction over said way or place;

So, by legal definition by the State of Florida, a MMP IS a "highway" since it is public and carries "vehicular traffic"(carts, cycles, even scooters)

Next, the definition of an intersection:

17) INTERSECTION.—
(a) The area embraced within the prolongation or connection of the lateral curblines; or, if none, then the lateral boundary lines of the roadways of two highways which join one another at, or approximately at, right angles; or the area within which vehicles traveling upon different highways joining at any other angle may come in conflict.

So, again by definition by the State of Florida, the meeting of an MMP and the "car" road, even at a gate crossing is an intersection.

So finally, :

(b) At a four-way stop intersection, the driver of the first vehicle to stop at the intersection shall be the first to proceed. If two or more vehicles reach the four-way stop intersection at the same time, the driver of the vehicle on the left shall yield the right-of-way to the vehicle on the right.

So in conclusion, again, according to THE LAW, an MMP is a "highway", where it crosses at a gate is an "intersection" and the first to arrive, EVEN IF A GOLF CART OR BICYCLE, has the right of way. PERIOD.

The list of priorities that I try to follow:
1. Don't kill anyone
2. Don't hit anyone
3. Don't hit anything
4. Don't put myself in the position of getting hit
5. Follow the law as best I understand it
6. Be predictable

I haven't seen that configuration. If I did, I would look for the "3-way" text on my stop sign or the presence of an octagonal stop sign in the parking lot. If I saw either of those I would treat it as an intersection of roads. Basically, I would be trying to exercise 3-6 above.

The difference with the MMP is there is no (or only very few) octagonal stop signs on the MMPs. I don't see the signs and I recognize what I am about to cross is not a roadway so I assume the non-automotive traffic must yield to traffic on the roadway.

I guess I use the gates as a physical implementation of a stop light. When they are down I stop, when they are up I go, and when I go I am careful to exercise 3 and 4 regardless of 5.

But the gate is generally not a 4 way stop, so that does not apply.

If you have your Florida statutes open, look up the required marking for indicating that vehicular traffic must stop. I have always been told it is an octagonal sign with red background....... If I don't see one of those on the MMP then I don't legally have to stop? (EDIT: The MMP has octagonal stop signs at all the gate crossings I came to today.)

We're spending a lot of time discussing a situation that should happen infrequently. Whatever we prove is right or wrong matters very little because a majority of Villagers are going to make up their own rules anyway.

Correct. I thought we were only debating the rare situation where there is that big red octagonal sign on the road because a gate is not present. I would agree that the gate itself does not qualify as an official traffic control device( although I do recommend stopping for it :1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:)

That being said, the academic discussion does very little good. In my experience, many drivers actually speed up when a gate has been removed, stop sign notwithstanding

I don't like being waved through either. They risk being rear ended by someone not paying attention.

So I try to slow down or stop a few cart lengths away from the crossing if I see a car coming to encourage them not to stop before reaching the gate.

I’m sorry I ever bought my golf cart. It was a waist of $15,000. It takes me 25 minutes by golf cart to get to Brownwood, 7 minutes by car, 1 hour to get to Lake Sumter by golf cart, 15 minutes by car, 1 1/2 hours by golf cart to Spanish Springs, 1/2 hour by car. I drive it every 2 weeks just to keep the battery from Dying. I’m active in The Villages but what a waste of money the golf cart purchase was.

Carts are allowed on Moyer Loop where the speed limit is 30 mph, but most vehicles are going 35 to 45.

Good Lord....where do you live????

I absolutely agree with you. My wife and I have been here for 15 years and have never needed a golf cart. For one thing.......I don't particularly like golf and prefer more ACTIVE sports where you actually sweat on both a hot or cool day. We have had basically 2 cars and at one time a moped and also a 250 cc motor scooter and various bicycles to get around on. Lately, we have gotten an E-bike. When we used the scooters and bikes, it was to go about a maximum of 15 blocks one way. Typically, we stayed in our village and avoided crossing large roads with high traffic. We relied on cars to get around to other areas and Villages within The Villages for work, sports, movies, and shopping.
.........The problems with golf carts are that they are slow, some older gas ones smell, the gas ones pollute, they vibrate, they are less safe than an automobile, and they are loud. For some reason, the gas carts have terrible muffler systems. The NEWEST Yamahas (quiet tech) are actually about as quiet as most cars. Many other and older makes of golf carts are noisier than most automobiles. Also, I agree that golf carts cost about as much as a new or 1-year-old smaller car. Insurance for an automobile is NOT so costly that it would make someone pick a golf cart over an automobile.
........That being said, my wife's macular degeneration is going to force her to give up driving a car and she will be able to drive only a golf car within about one more year. We are planning to get an Electric golf cart because it is better for the environment and the center of gravity of the vehicle will be lower - this improves both acceleration and braking. We will NOT want it to go above 20 MPH and we will NOT be raising the center of gravity with bigger wheels or any of those childish stunts.
.........Also, I am amazed that the powers that be in the Villages allow (not enforce) golf cart speeds commonly into the 30 MPH range. Pull drivers over (you can hear that the engines rev louder) and give them SERIOUS TICKETS and the problem will go away. Having golf carts with different potential top speeds is self-defeating for safety and dangerously STUPID! Does the management of the Villages OWE a better standard of enforcement to the ordinary residents of the Villages that LOOK UP TO THEM FOR SAFETY AND STANDARDIZATION!!!!!!


........

[QUOTE=Bilyclub;2255396]I was referring to the gates at the entrance to a vilIage, where the only cross traffic is golf carts. I am not really familiar with other gates that don't have golf carts crossing behind the gate.

Really, you expect me to read 17 paragraphs about golf carts?

I live Accross the street fro Everglades Rec Center and Magnolia Plaza in the village of Linden

One advantage of driving a golf cart is the same as a motorcycle, bicycle, roller skates, and skateboard.........the driver / rider feels more in tune with the environment. In a car or truck, you are surrounded by a large protection of steel and you are going faster, so the driver / rider has MORE SEPARATION from environmental factors like wind, rain, sun, pedestrians, birds, butterflies, insects, dogs, smells, and sounds. Since you are moving slower in the non-automobiles, you can slow your brain down better and get into a more meditative state than a fast-moving car.
....You take a car or truck to get somewhere quickly or go a long distance through an environment. You take a bicycle or rollerskates to get some exercise and ENJOY the environment.
.........Driving in a golf cart is somewhere in between those 2.
.........Of course, it is possible to enjoy driving in a car - you just take in less details about the environment.

LOL. I don't need to be in tune with the environment. I just want to get from Point A to Point B, quickly and safely. But, I do enjoy a smooth, air conditioned ride.

When we first moved to TV in 2003, driving a golf cart was fun. With in a year, the novelty wore off and I realized I don't enjoy it at all. Too freakin' hot, uncomfortable, felt like driving a car with all the windows down (which I also hate), not feeling safe, and takes too long to get anywhere with all the convoluted paths and tunnels. If I was alone, I would not own one. Give me a nice safe SUV with A/C any day!

If a super modern city could be designed with many one-way roads and every once and awhile a cross street with an elevated bridge, then theoretically a small 3 or 4 wheel vehicle that went 40MPH and did NOT have to stop for red lights could get around a city faster than a standard vehicle (like today's car or truck). And it could have a small motor either electrical or the equivalent of about 30 HP gasoline engine. Throw in some crash avoidance safety measures and MAYBE a golf cart sized vehicle COULD BE the vehicle of the FUTURE?

Except for some odd situations, anyplace you go will be faster by car. If that is the most important factor for you then maybe a golf cart isn't useful.

I'm about 25 to LSL. I consider LSL to be fairly close and go there frequently. Pretty much equivalent to your trip to Brownood. It takes me much longer to get to Edna's, Fenney, Sawgrass, and Eastport (when it finally opens). Those are the "close" destinations for someone who lives south of the turnpike.

I go to meetings/activities at Seabreeze, Colony, Eisenhower, and Rohan. I also go to activities at Fenney, Everglades, Aviary, Homestead, and Okahumpka. I imagine our drive times are similar, just reversed for the two sets.

A golf cart isn't for everyone. I enjoy the ride, have no need to get anywhere that much faster, and like to think about the money I'm saving on gas. Others don't consider the savings to be that much and don't enjoy the journey. To each his own.

I hate golf carts, especially gas ones. That’s why we own three of them and almost never drive a car when at our Villages home. Sometimes I take the car out for a quick spin, just to circulate some fresh gas through the fuel delivery system, when it hasn’t been started for four or five weeks.

I agree in the 2nd paragraph about the high center of gravity for GASOLINE golf carts. The batteries in the E-carts keep the CG lower. Plus less pollution. And in the last sentence, I interpret the idea that there needs to be better enforcement of the Florida law about Golf Carts having a max speed of 20 MPH (and not the 30 or 35 reached when the governor is illegally jacked up.) This is a situation where local LAW enforcement could save local lives.
.........Also, the people who put bigger wheels on their golf carts INCREASE the CG and that makes a vehicle meant for low-speed golf courses into a vehicle likely to overturn around a corner.

The automobiles likely have a lower CG than a gasoline golf cart. Their suspensions are designed better than a golf cart - and the exhaust systems of the larger engine cars and trucks are QUIETER than most gas golf carts - that is the final insult to golf cart buyers by the manufacturers!

That would help and be very LOGICAL. But SOMEHOW (?) the rules / laws about the color, the small size, and the no flags have been handed down on a stone tablet by some traffic DIETY!

When the normal functioning gate is in the heavy shade of a large tree, that gate is difficult to see. It is THIN and white with small RED painted lines. Hasn't it been proven that ORANGE has better visibility than RED? Hunters used to wear RED and now they often (due to laws) wear ORANGE vests. I am sure that someone else has pointed this out, but I KNOW that in dark shade from large trees, those gates are hard to see........and if the drivers are daydreaming.....then SPLAT, there goes another gate.

I worry about that. When I am outside and an older gas cart or a loud one with its governor jacked up goes by.......after about 7 car lengths past me, the smell is like that of an open container of gas. Gas golf cars have NO catalytic converter, a minimal suspension system, and a high center of gravity. Probably, the brakes are pathetic also, I am not sure.

US citizens do NOT like the idea that Europe and other areas actually are more modern and thoughtful than we are.

Having just returned from 2 weeks in Europe, I can unequivocally state that is total BS

LOL!!!

Yep, over 75,000 golf carts in the Villages but the ten people who hate then have to post here...

There may be 75,000 golf carts in The Villages, but most of them are not being used except maybe to play golf. Perfect weather today in the low 80's. But at Colony Plaza and at the rec center I visited, less than 5 percent of the vehicles parked there were golf carts.

So, after living in TV for 15 years, you haven't figured out that there is a gate at the gate houses (or just past the "little red button") and that you're supposed to stop?

LOL. We've lived here 10 years. I know where all the gates are and I haven't been surprised by a relocated one yet!

The two trips over the 441 bridge I took to the Historic side, I screamed "Weeeeeeeee" all the way from one side to the other. I do love roller coasters so maybe that's why my inner child came out.

There may come a time when we all have to face the fact that we must hand over our car keys. The best thing about the golf cart lifestyle in The Villages is you can still maintain independence when you give up driving your automotive vehicle AKA car, SUV, Truck, etc. That is the beauty of The Villages, drive a golf cart to just about everywhere that is essential in your life such as grocery shopping, doctor's offices, rec centers and the squares for entertainment, etc.

I have said this before on this forum but I will say again.......When I'm in my golf cart, waiting to proceed at a gate, I will not make eye contact with any car as they approach the gate. This way, they will proceed through the gate and not try to "wave me on". I make my point........I, in the golf cart, DO NOT have right of way.

OMG.....all these years I have been driving a golf cart and a car here in The Villages, I did not know golf carts have the right of way if the cart arrives at the gate first. I was told that the car always has right of way at the gates. Hmmmmm.

It does make a difference if one lives closer to all the destinations you mentioned. By golf cart, it takes me 9 minutes to LSL or Colony Plaza. It takes me 6 minutes to these destinations by car. Of course the car is faster but parking is a lot easier with the cart, especially at LSL. It has been YEARS since I parallel parked a car so I love taking my golf cart to the square just for the ease of parking it.

They don't. There is a stop sign for the golf carts and not one for the automobiles...

Please read the context of those posts. Cars DO HAVE THE RIGHT OF WAY AT GATE CROSSINGS. Please don't confuse the newbies.

My posts defining highways and intersections apply ONLY to the situation where there is a STOP SIGN at the gate or when the gate is removed. Then, according to the definitions given by the State of Florida, it becomes no different than any other 4 way stop where the vehicle arriving first has the right of way (or more technically, the other vehicle must YIELD the right of way)

qed

I learned early on expecting to park a car anywhere close to any of the squares resulted in parking half a mile away and the trek back!