$8.00 fee
 

It seems to me that Comcast had been absorbing the fee for a period of time as a hook to get cable customers. That arrangement is now coming to an end. The villages.net can be accessed through any ISP but you still need to get sign in an passwords through them. It is now The Villages.net that is imposing the fee not Comcast. Just my opinion

This is 100% wrong. Comcast is getting nothing out of this, the developer is getting all the money.

It seems there are differences of opinion on this - laudit or anyone - can you cite your source for who earns this money? Like many of you, I am willing to pay a fee for the service - but I would like to know who is getting the revenue.

Thanks so much,

Kate

Way back in the beginning of this thread (or perhaps it was a related thread), I had planned to dig into this arrangement.... well, I talked to folks at Comcast, villages.net, and the golf and country club division of The Villages. I didn't get many clear answers and employees didn't seem to be told many details. It got to be a frustrating search with little hope of any relief, so I gave up.

The original deal between Comcast and the Developer is a little murky.... whether comcast was paying the developer or the tee time access was part of their original deal, I dont know.... and, it's somewhat immaterial now. The deal is over.

Villages.net is a private for profit company and is one of many owned directly or indirectly by the developer. They will reap all the revenues from the tee time system as well as the cost for operations and maintenance.

My issue before and now is that the projected revenues (and I agree with the approx $2 million) represent an enormous profit. I was an IT development manager and I know the costs of developing, maintaining, and operating an online system.... this is no $2M/year system.

As a golfer, I would not squawk with paying a reasonable fee to use the tee time system.... but something at or less than $50/year makes sense to me and still provides a tidy profit. I have great respect for the developer, but, sorry folks...this time I think we are being gouged. But, like Uncle Muncle, I'll grouse about it and pay the fee anyway.

I do suspect that comcast stands to lose a lot of subscribers in the next 3 months..... between this additional $8 and a recent $4/month cable TV increase.... the equation to go with Direct/Dish is getting heavily weighted to making the switch. I mentioned this to the Comcast staff and they shrugged their shoulders with a 'who cares' response.

I would not mind seeing a public campaign to expose the cash flow/costs/beneficiaries of this new charge. Maybe that letter/article in the POA will get more folks fired up about this.

All of the above are my own opinions.

It seems to me that the most direct way for homeowners to respond is to vote with their dollars. If most residents boycott the $8/ month pay system and stick to calling in, perhaps there will be pressure on the developer to make the fee more reasonable.

We signed up for the cable company TV had when we first moved in (2004).
 

We got caught in the transition to Comcast. We were told we were "grandfathered" and there would be no charge for access to TV.net and the T time system. Not a word about it only lasting till 6/09.

My opinion: TV made a deal with Comcast. TV .net is owned/operated by TV. The T time system is part of TV. It is an issue of TV....for TV...by TV...et al.

I will NOT pay an additional $$ to any provider for an amenity of TV.

There are so many changes in TV management they can play hide the facts till the buffalo come home!!

I am in the process of dumping Comcast.They have old non digital technology technology with band aids to provide some HD programming. They have consistant pricing increases with no up grade of performance for the same old same old technology. Yes someday they will get to fiber optic....who knows when. They are one of the last to make the conversion.

I am switching to Dis Network this month. I have already gone to Verizon's air card for high speed internet. I tried their air card for the last month and unless you are a major download/upload freak for music and video streaming, there is hardly a noticeable difference. The air card is $59 per month for 5 gig per month....most people will never ever even hit one gig. Comcast high speed internet is $45 per month and rising. The Dish net work programming...all digital...substantially more HD programming.....$78 per month. At the end of the switch I will be paying $10-15 less per month than Comcast. I will use the phone for T times it is no big deal and it is free.

Plus I can take the Dish Network box to our lake home and use it there for no additional charge so I get to use one provider for both locations. Another almost $60 per month savings.

Plus with the Dish Network promotions currently available, the monthly fee is reduced by $35 per month for 6 months. Another almost $500 savings over the 6 month period.

Why would one stay with Comcast or TV.net??? For the $$$ one wouldn't and I am not.

When it is time to call Comcast and cancel they will do some real strange things price wise to keep the account. My answer....too late.

Until another cable provider comes to town, we are hamstrung and held at bay by Comcast....just like TV. That will change when the upcoming fiber optic capability is attained by the phone companies. Then watch what Comcast does to TRY to be competitive.

I find it quite interesting that friends and family who live on the fringe of TV where they have acces to Brighthouse Cable....most choose Brighthouse VS Comcast.....they have better technology. And I wonder why they are not (allowed) in TV.

I will soon have better programming....the flexibiloity of a second location for no additional cost. It is a no brainer. The other alternative is Direct TV....it boils down to a matter of choice....get it...a choice....which one does not have with TV or Comcast.

Asta la vista Comcast and TV and money in my pocket!!!! No contest!!

BTK

V07

Thank you for a well-written, informative post. I am also a software person and agree that the cost to develop is minimal. Like you and Muncie, we will also pay the fee. At the time we both retire, well, we shall see...

Lets see $8 x 50,000 people that play golf... $2,880,000 a year... HELLObarf

HELLO. $8/month times 12 months/year equals $96 per year times 30,000 HOUSEHOLDS equals $2,880,000.

10,000 households = $960,000
20,000 households = $1,920,000
30,000 households = $2,880,000

The rate is per household, not golfer, take your pick how many households actually use the system.

The Villages Tee Party
 

REMEMBER THE BOSTON TEA PARTY!!! Dissenters who are outraged at the tee time registration fee should meet on June 14, Flag Day, at the dock on Lake Sumter and toss a golf TEE into the lake to protest taxation without representation.

All others...on June 14, book your favorite course and tee time while everyone else is throwing golf tees in the lake.

Free tee fees now!
Free tee fees now!
Free tee fees now!

Tee shirts with the red hot "Free Tee Fees" logo, will be available at all starter shacks for just $29.95. $39.95 at Palmer.

Those who don't care can obtain a tee shirt with large printed letters stating, "What...me worry?" , and a full face frontal of Alfred E. Newman. The development office says you can pick them up free where the buffalo roam.

Who is Alfred E. Newman?

http://www.leconcombre.com/concpost/..._e_neuman.html

Before you decide to dump the online Tee Time System, I suggest you try using the telephone system as your sole means of getting requests and reservations for your groups for the next month. After two weeks, I think you will be willing to pay the $8 a month.

I am not happy with the $8 a month but anything will beat the telephone system - especially if you have several groups that you make requests and reservations for.

Also, I will repeat some info from my first note. When I moved here in 2001, ClearLink was the plan for a total Villages cable company. Anyone on ClearLink hi-speed got the villages.net free. When the Villages decided to dump ClearLink and go with Comcast, Comcast sent us a letter that the villages.net would be free until June, 2009. I still have the letter. Comcast gave all Villagers using the high speed internet the free villages.net. Maybe they did not specify the 6/2009 date but all introductory prices come with a catch. The date was 6/2009.

And for those that wonder why you get two email addresses, it is so that the online Tee Time System can deliver the tee time reservations from the requests directly to your PC if you use a PC client email product since they only recognize the village.net as a valid domain.

I agree with all of the other posts about the amount of money the villages.net and the developer are going to "glean" from us but the alternative is not worth the time and the pain.

Z

I hesitate to get wet again, but what the heck? The water is very warm.

The most intelligent observation offered in this whole thread is this:
"Villages.net is a private for profit company."

This fact sums up and ends the conversation does it not? Like every such business, it boils down to one question for the customer: Is the service received worth the price?

If the answer is no, then the solution is very easy: Cancel your subscription. Then use the phone system. You can make a reservation in two minutes or less. It is VERY EASY. If the answer is yes, then shut up already and go play golf.

Oh I suppose, if enough people complained about their property taxes and bugged their representatives to death then something might change...OH I'M SORRY. I forgot. We were talking about an $8/month voluntary payment, not a mandatory $500/month for taxes (I tend to focus on things that really cost money, not 3 or 4 beers a month. Again I apologize).

Maybe you all should make this the issue of 2009 and force the district to ante up and pay an annual fee to the villages.net so that all residents can access the tee time system, "for free", as some say. Wouldn't that solve your problem? Money you can't see is money you wouldn't be spending right? Those poor kids at the villages. net would probably love that. Then they wouldn't have to hear you complainers go on about EIGHT DOLLARS day after day after day after day after day.

To the issue of all the computations offered, know that every one is 100% off the mark. You all are just guessing. Do you even know how many subscribers there are? I certainly do not. Without that, you can't even write the first number down on paper. It's a jolly waste of time. Plus it costs you an extra blood pressure pill. Why would you do that to yourselves?

Even villages07, who, with his experience as IT development manager KNOWS THE COST of "an" online system, saying that "this is no $2M/year system" [is there a tee time system on your resume by chance? Would you happen to know anything about the complexities involved? That isn't meant to be a rhetorical question...I really would like you to explain some aspects of its to us], let me say this:

It must be isn't it? After all, it IS generating $2M of greed to the developer (according to your calculations).

This is way over the top I know. But gee whiz people, it gets so old. Take your 8 bucks and drive to a course outside of the Villages for gosh sakes. Sure it cost money to get there, but "BY GOD, I was able to call them up and reserve a tee time, FOR FREE."

Don't worry.....be happy
 

I thank God every morning when I wake up in the Villages....a place where passionate controversy and healthy, spirited debate focus on whether its worth spending $8.00 a month for the OPTIONAL convenience of booking your tee times on line. Thank you TOTV. :024: Ain't life grand. :clap2: Be of good cheer! :laugh: Celebrate!!! :beer3:

Cabo,

You say it all!:eclipsee_gold_cup:

I gave my thoughts on this issue in another thread on the subject but I think it is worth repeating here:

The real question that should be answered is whether or not the Developer has the right to charge individual Villagers for specific services that are an integral part of the Amenities, rather than making them part of the Monthly Amenities Fee that everyone shares.

Recently I uploaded a transposed copy of the Declaration of Restrictions for the Lake Sumter district which I had converted into a searchable PDF. It is posted in the Nuts and Bolts forum for reference purposes when discussing covenants and restrictions here in TOTV.

Section 4.1 – C of that contractual document states that:

“Each Owner agrees that as additional facilities are requested by the Owner, and the erection of such additional facilities is agreed to by the Developer, that upon a Vote of ½ of the Owners approving such additional facilities and commensurate charges therefore, the monthly Contractual Amenities Fee provided for herein shall be increased accordingly.”

Now the question is, what is the definition of a facility. Dictionary.com defines it as:

a. Something designed, built, installed, etc., to serve a specific function affording a convenience or service.
b. Something that permits the easier performance of an action, course of conduct, etc.

Now if that doesn’t describe the on-line reservation system, I don’t know what does. I’m not a lawyer but I think that a reasonable argument could be made for the idea that charging a separate fee for the use of this new facility is a breach of the contract that the developer signed with each Villager.

The representatives of the developer are always quick to point out that the amenity fee is not a tax, but is instead a contractual obligation and is subject to the terms as stipulated in the Declaration of Restrictions. OK, fine, but it's a two way street.

When it comes to anything having to do with the identified amenities (exec courses and rec centers), you really owe it to yourselves to make sure that the developer colors inside the lines.

But the argument could be made that the courses have a free reservation system (by phone). I would think that the on-line system could be considered a 'value added' function beyond the required free access.

Also, like you, not a lawyer.

Russ,

I'm not a lawyer either - but my opinion mirrors yours.

To me it is like the high speed ferries to Block Isl. or Martha's Vineyard or the Canadian Maritimes. You can get there for less other ways - but time is worth something. Only you can decide how much on-line vs phone is worth to you.

I think you’re missing my point. There’s no question that the online system adds value, some wouldn’t dream of going back to the old phone based system that lacks features they use all the time. That’s clear from some of the posts in this thread.

The point I’m trying to make is that the developer has added value to a basic amenity that is supposed to be governed by the contract every villager signed when they bought their home. And according to my interpretation of that contract, anything done to those facilities is supposed to be funded by the amenity fee that is shared by all villagers.

For example, how would you feel if the next time you go to your local recreation center for a swim and find that there is now a new section of the pool area. In that area are fancy lounge chairs with plush cushions and canopies , an ice dispenser, and even air conditioning to keep the area cool in the heat of summer. But there’s a sign that says “this area reserved for Pool Club members only”. And when you inquire, you are told that the developer has set up these areas at each of the recreation centers and membership is $50/month or $500/yr and you can use these value-added areas at any of the recreation centers.

So it’s not about whether the $8/mo for the online system is worth it, nor about how much it costs to implement it. It’s about whether or not the developer should be allowed to add value to the basic amenities and charge individually for it. And my take is that the contract calls for anything done to the amenity facilities must be funded by the amenity fees.

I think the POA and newly elected AAC members should make it clear to the developer that he can add value and charge for anything he wants, just don’t mess with the amenities.

And Katezbox, regarding the high speed ferry, you may have given the developer a new idea. Granted, the golf cart bridge is not an amenity, but don’t be surprised to find a 50 cent toll both there the next time you go to cross it. No big deal, you can always get in your car and cross 441 that way.

Thanks for a good post EdVinMass!

Remember - certain things ARE left off the use of the amenities. For example if you want to walk the exec courses that is free but if you want to ride then you need to pay an additional trail fee even though the cart paths are already in place. Why couldn't this be challenged per your argument?

If you want to use the phone it's free if you want to use the on-line system it is 26 cents per day additional.

Although I'm not completely sure of all the details, I was led to believe that certain amenities at some of the golf courses are reserved for those who pay the extra priority golfing fee. Is it true that some of those pools are only for those who pay the priority fee. I do know that at one time, Cattle Baron was only for priory golf members, but that bit the big one.

The pools at the CC's are additional but that doesn't follow the amenities argument since the CC's are not supported by the amenity fee anyway.

Ed,

LOL

I hear you - but I don't think the language in the documents prohibits the developer from finding additional sources of revenue. I'm not trying to take a stand on whether this is greed, fair or somewhere in between.

k

PS - hope the golf cart bridge doesn't become like the the NH tolls on 95!

I think it does address the argument that was made by EdVinMass in his post.

Lets not confuse the issue by using the trail fee argument as a justification for allowing the developer to add fees at his whim to the basic amenities and pocketing the revenue.

The trail fees are revenues that go into the operating funds of the amenites and offsets the cost of maintaining the executive course golf cart paths. That revenue I believe is listed on the Village Center Community Development District's (VCCDD) Recreational Amenities Division (RAD) annual budget as "Parks & Recreation Fees & Charges" to the tune of 1.6 million dollars. Here's a link to that http://www.districtgov.org/vccdd/you...bas_090131.pdf

As far as I know, not one cent of the 8 dollars per month charged for the online tee time system ends up in the revenues of the VCCDD's RAD.

Now if I'm wrong about that and those fees are in fact revenue to the VCCDD, then I would withdraw my objection to it and any discussion of the issue can focus on whether or not one feels it's worth the value added and use it or not based on personal choice.

The argument could also be made that the presence or absence of the online system in no way affects anyone's ability to golf at the villages. How would you quantify this added value then? Resident 1 may be golfing 7 days a week using the phone system with no complaints. Resident 2 may be doing the same via the online system, also with no complaints. What's the difference of benefit? One might say, "It's too hard to work with groups on the phone." Others then might say, "I don't care about groups. It works fine for me and my small group."

Nevertheless, let's cut to the chase. The REAL argument is about you not getting access FOR FREE right?...with "FREE" meaning that whatever the cost, it is spread among every resident. In other words, why should you pay $8 when you could by paying $1 or $2? If it was $0 there would be no problem whatsoever right?! That's what's going on here. You want to use whatever tool possible (now legal documents) to force the issue, so you can use the online tee time system for free.

So then, why not advocate that the district pay for it then? Charge every house a couple of bucks a month and be done with it. Then you get it for FREE. Provided that $2 bucks a house would cover the costs. Never mind those who have no need for it or ever want it. Make them pay anyway.

I have to say, fwiw, this is how the US got so screwed up. Some group in Oregon needs 50-million bucks for something. Instead of them forking over the cash, they tickle the ears of their representative (and leave a few bucks in his pocket), and he goes back to Washington and gets it appropriated. Then I, way down here in Florida, get to help pay a few cents for a little project in Oregon that I will never see, touch, smell, or worse of all, even know that I paid for part of it.

Wrong!

Furthermore, this is not a political discussion. If you want to discuss politics and how tax dollars are spent, there is a forum for that. This is about business. The amenity fee is not a tax, it’s a fee that is mandated by a contract between the developer and every villager.

And the amenities identified in that contract are supposed to be managed according to that contract. This is a discussion about whether or not the developer should be allowed to add a service to an amenity and charge separately for it and pocket the profits instead of having that service funded by the amenity and being paid for by the service fees collected from the golfers that prefer to use that value added service.

Different View
 

I signed up with the Villages.net when I ditched Comcast Cable internet and went with Sprint DSL (now Embarq) because I could no longer afford the cable internet. At that time it was $6. The way cable keeps going up, it stands to reason that they are not furnishing Villages.net for nothing. Contracts expire and maybe that is what has happened here. Don't know how it all works, but it could be that Villages.net now has to pay Comcast. Everything is not covered by the ammenity fee...else we couldn't afford the fee, either. My son lives in Jacksonville and pays $176 monthly fee and for that gets an outdoor pool, a party room, workout room, and maintenance for his postage stamp yard.....no golf courses, no rec centers, no golf cart privileges, etc. Seems we already get a lot for our money.

Tee Time System Access through Comcast
 

I have no way of knowing what transpired back then, between the Developer who apparently owns TheVillages.net and Comcast, that provided online access for Village's Comcast clients to the tee time system. I am of the opinion that there had to be some arrangement made $$$$, that gave TheVillages.net some compensation for this service:beer3:. Now that the contract is about to expire it would seem reasonable for Comcast to either renew it and continue to pay the fee or, give it's clients who have been using the service a reduction in their monthly high speed internet charge.

Am I alone in this thinking view?

Here's my opinion folks......... it's kinda like the buffalo!

Dial one for english !!!!
 

When the villages are completed there will be 46 golf courses (including 12 country clubs with 27 holes each.) Having the ability to go online and scan all the courses and pic and choose the one you want is an outstanding perk that is cheap at 8 bucks.....I haven't lost one minutes sleep over it and to cover it , once a month I won't go to McDonald's for lunch on my way home from the golf course...However now that I think about it , I don't think I ever did go to McDonald's for lunch so I probably won't miss it......
That said, let me respond to a poster who said that the Exec courses are not for real golfers and just for beginners and old people ......I will be glad to forward your note on to NANCY LOPEZ who played pelican from the blues and stated afterward that she didn't think she was ready for this tour......

The online system is a valuable service to me and many of my golfing friends and I for one consider it a great tool for creating ease of play in the villages , I consider it a heleva deal....
for those who don't , Then DIAL ONE FOR ENGLISH !!!!!!

THE GREAT FUMAR...

Real golfers??? As far as I know, Nancy and Arnie are the only ones here that have been on a real tour. I don't know of any of the other "real golfers" here that have a Green Jacket, either.

Agree with all you say Fumar except Tierra and OBH are 18 holes. Thought I would point that out as I knew you were testing us to see who would catch it first. :bowdown:

Not sure what your point is. There are some excellent players who live in TV.

And besides, TV golf is for everyone to enjoy.

I have a green jacket. Does that make me a real golfer or just a guy with a green jacket. Ami I missing something?

Wow... went over my head!

My Opinion > Its a clear rip off !
 

$8 for what you get is a rip off. Way over priced for a single function internet used a few times a week for a very short period of time. Perhaps those who play Championship courses don't mind the extra fee but to me it stinks!

And using the phone system is a real hassle!

My Point
 

I'll try and spell it out for ya'll. I was referring to the remark in the quote I included that alluded to the idea that the executive courses were for those in TV that are not "real golfers" and was wondering just what a "real golfer" by their definition would be. I got from that post that some of the excellent golfers you referenced feel that they are too good to stoop to the level of playing executive courses. They may be good, but not as good as Nancy Lopez or Arnie Palmer for instance, and she evidently will play those courses. As for the green jacket, I meant the one earned by playing and winning the Masters. Sorry, I didn't mean to offend anyone by questioning the post and you're right...TV golf is for everyone to enjoy and not be belittled by which course or courses they choose to play in the process.

Lucy, please splain!

I agree with you, also, I think that especially during the Holidays most anyone who visits the home owners are either grand children, sons etc. When you take them to an Executive
Course and they charge you $10.00 each for the kids, but things must be really bad, they charge and additional $5.00 for the kids to ride in your golf cart.
Hard to understand how much money you now have to pay for a little enjoyment with you family