Talk of The Villages Florida

Talk of The Villages Florida (https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/)
-   The Villages, Florida, General Discussion (https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/villages-florida-general-discussion-73/)
-   -   Independent Fire District Cost Impact Information (https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/villages-florida-general-discussion-73/independent-fire-district-cost-impact-information-333737/)

jump4 07-31-2022 08:13 PM

Negative impacts
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Goldwingnut (Post 2119989)
....the people with absolutely no say in the matter, the residents that will not be part of the VPSD IFD in Sumter County, will be the most negatively impacted by this process.

This is something that concerns me. The tremendous development of The Villages should help elevate the surrounding area, not disadvantage it. Why are the current county commissioners being more transparent about this? Don't they represent the entire county?

?

paulat585 08-01-2022 06:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Goldwingnut (Post 2116468)
This is a very long post on a very complex and important subject. I've taken the time to write it to help everyone understand the Independent Fire District issue.

There is a lot of concern about the upcoming vote on creating an Independent Fire District (IFD) formation vote that is coming up. There is also a lot of speculation and misinformation being spread by some who are trying to pass themselves off as “knowledgeable” or even as “experts”, some of these people are running for the various County Commissioner seats. At The Villages Republican Club meeting on Thursday, I heard some of these individuals speak and, in my opinion, attempt to spread fear and discontent about this as a way to sway voters on the issue and to vote for them. While I am not omnipotent in my knowledge of the topic, recent service as a District Supervisor on the CDD10 board and on PWAC as well as my current service as County Commissioner has had me deeply engaged in the issue.

What follows is an explanation of the issue and how it will impact residents in The Villages as well as outside The Villages in Sumter County. My knowledge about The Villages undertakings on the IFD is up to date as of my leaving office on June 10th when I assumed the position of County Commissioner, for the most up to date information, you should contact Mr. Kenny Blocker, the District Manager.

Concerning the IFD, there are several variables here and I'll try to explain them. Please keep in mind what I will explain is the "ideal" and “theoretical” situation and the numbers involved can and will most likely change so the net impact to any individual property owner or taxpayer is still unknown at this time.

First, we must look at the fire department structure in Sumter County, there are two, the Sumter County Fire & EMS department (SCFD) and The Villages Public Safety department (VPSD). Both are funded from the county general fund budget; the proposed budget is about $19.3M for Sumter County and $17.9M for VPSD for the 2023 fiscal year. About $37.2M in total, this is second only to the $42.4M proposed budget for the Sumter County Sheriff's Office budget.

Funding this is two principal sources 1) the $124 annual fire Municipal Service Benefit Unit (MSBU) for fires services on the property tax bill for each developed property in the county and 2) the county general fund funds the balance of the costs. There are currently 73 funding sources to the general fund and there may be some addition contributions from some of these other sources but for the sake of discussion since these would be minor sources, we’ll focus on these two primary funding sources. The MSBU projected contribution for next year (FY23) is about $9.1M, this leaves about $28.1M coming from the General Fund.

What happens next is the most important part of the process and was approved by the BOCC on Tuesday July 12th. We will have an independent company review and analyze the costs associated with the county fire department and transport services (ambulance) in the current budget and projected for the upcoming year. They will make a recommendation on the path forward for funding of the county fire department. The anticipated action is:
a) The current revenues and expenses for fire service for both fire departments will be removed from the FY24 budget. (Based on FY23 budget numbers this would be $19.3M + $17.9M in cost and $9.1M in revenue). This will result in a decrease of the ad valorem tax millage rate; these numbers are shown at the bottom of this posting.
b) The IFD and Sumter County will set a MSBU (separate, so they may be different for each) would be based on the actual number of properties serviced by each fire department and applied to their FY24 budgets. The Sumter County MSBU will be based on the outcome of the study approved by the BOCC and the IFD as determined by their needs and board’s direction.
c) Some of the remaining costs for the County Fire Department would then be assessed as a Municipal Service Taxing Unit (MSTU) on the properties service by the SCFD and not those serviced by the VSPD. The MSTU would be an ad valorem tax on the property. This will replace the ad valorem tax rate reduction for SCFD serviced residents.
d) The balance of the costs should be recovered in Transport Fees – the fees charged for transport by the county ambulance services that were approved last year. These costs and revenues still need to be calculated.

I'm no longer engaged with the VPSD and District office for The Villages since becoming a member of the BOCC but will share with you what I know of the anticipated plan for the VPSD funding. Please follow up with the District staff and Mr. Kenny Blocker (District Manager) for the most up to date details on this.
a) A board of supervisors for the Independent Fire District will be appointed by the Governor, presumably these will be residents within the IFD.
b) The IFD will determine its funding requirements and operating budget.
c) The IFD board will establish their own MSBU to support their funding – this is the fixed dollar amount per parcel.
d) The board will set their own MSTU (or equivalent) to cover the majority of the operating cost – this is the value-based ad valorem tax millage rate that could be as high as 2 millage points ($2 per $1000 assessed value).
e) The Villages residents also contribute $4.08 each month from each Amenity Fee paid to supplement the VPSD budget, about $3.5M as best I can recall from the budget workshops earlier this year. This helps fund the extra services such as smoke alarm battery change out and AED programs.
f) Like the SCFD, VPSD will also be collecting Transport Fees for the ambulance services they provide, these revenues will also be applied to the operating budget to offset costs.

Again, for the most accurate information please contact Mr. Kenny Blocker, The Villages District Manager.

For both fire departments there may be internal and external revenue sources that may offset some of the operating cost in addition to what I’ve described above. These will be up to their governing boards to pursue.

The vote on the general election ballot on November 8th is only about establishing the IFD and not about the ambulance services. The ambulance service issue was resolved last year and is moving forward in both fire districts. This is the result of residents of The Villages and County Residents requirements for better, more effective, and more responsive emergency transport services. The BOCC listened and reacted accordingly. This higher level of service will come with a price that reflects additional staffing and equipment costs. In the ideal world, these will be cost neutral and self-funding from the transport fees collected.

There may also be some startup costs for both fire departments associated with establishing an IFD that would have to be absorbed in their initial budgets.

In the end you should see on your county tax bill:
a) A lower ad valorem property tax
b) An MSBU – possibly different for each fire district
c) An MSTU – dependent on your fire districts budget requirements and any other offsetting revenue sources.

This method that is in motion that I have described removes the cost of fire protection and transport service from the general property tax bill and collects it from the separate MSBU and MSTU fees. It prevents residents in or outside The Villages from being double taxed for the fire services.

In the ideal world there would be a net zero change in your property tax bill, but there are other factors that come into play such as the costs and revenues from the in-house ambulance services that were approved last year, as well as many other things.

Again, please understand that what I've described is the ideal situation and there are many variables that will impact this and there are a lot of numbers to be crunched to determine the exact impacts and cost. Also, please reach out to Mr. Blocker for more details on the VPSD funding side.

One of the drums that have been being banged by these fear mongering “experts” is that the actual numbers for the cost impact won’t be known until June 30th 2023. While upsetting to some, this is not an attempt from either Sumter County or VPSD to hide anything, it is simply because these numbers are still being and will continue to be calculated. A little forethought should put this issue into perspective:
a) On the county side the ad valorem millage rate adjustment can’t be calculated until the exact number of properties and their values are determined in each fire district is known, this is a huge task that the Property Appraiser must do each fiscal year.
b) Both fire departments have to determine their operating costs under the new configurations, this is still in transition.
c) Transport costs and recovery rates that impact the budgets can’t be accurately determined until they are operational and have some operating history.
d) Current economic conditions (inflation) are very unpredictable, the closer to the go-live point that budgets are determined the more accurate they will be.

All of these things being considered we can do some rough calculations on some of the impact of the proposed changes. I’ll use the proposed FY23 budget numbers to get an approximation of some of the items.
To determine the ad valorem tax millage rate change we need to know two things, 1) the value of the fire service costs to be removed and 2) the value of 1 millage point.

How much will be removed from the general fund budget, I’ve discussed this already discussed this – about $37.2M less the amount collected by the current MSBU of $124/property/year $9.1M or about $28.1M. (unrounded is $28,188,777)

How much is a millage point worth? In the proposed FY23 budget the millage rate of 5.5936 will yield $95,037,767 in ad valorem taxes or about $16,990,447.48 per millage point.

With these numbers the ad valorem tax millage rate anticipated change would be:

$28,188,777/$16,990,447.48 or 1.6591 points or about a 29.7% decrease in the ad valorem tax rate for the county general fund budget.

The current MSBU of $124/yr will also be removed from the county tax bill.

This ad valorem tax decrease and MSBU removal will be replaced by a new tax, an MSTU, and a new MSBU for each fire district on the county tax bill. How much these new taxes are still being determined. If I had to guess, on The Villages side the rates may be comparable between old and new, on the county side it is much more difficult to determine so I won’t speculate at this time.

Again, these numbers are very rough and have a great many other factors that will be considered that will affect them. These are also based on FY23 values and not the more accurate yet to be determined FY24 numbers. Overall, this should give you some ideas of what things are looking like.

Neither the Sumter County BOCC or The Villages District Staff are trying to hide any information or misrepresent anything to anyone, it is simply a very complex and lengthy process both are going through in preparation for a possible approval vote to the referendum in November. Information has been and will continue to be made available as it becomes available.

Finally, once again I say, for the most up to date information on The Villages side of the issue please contact Mr. Kenny Blocker, and on the Sumter County side we won’t have accurate answers until sometime in the first half of 2023 when the study is completed.

I know this explanation is lengthy and detailed, it is a complex issue and process. I hope this explanation has helped you understand where things are going with funding of the fire departments in Sumter County.

One last thought, this may be a difficult decision for some, the only advice I can give on this issue is when to determine if it is worthwhile. The only time you will truly be able to answer what the value of all this is when those big red trucks roll up to your home as the smoke is coming out the windows and all your possessions or the life of someone you love is at risk and these brave men and women step in to do their jobs, or as you let the hand of your most cherished one go as they are loaded into the ambulance on the way to the hospital. It is only at these moments that you will ever know that on November 8th, if you made the right decision.

Thank you

TrapX 08-02-2022 05:49 AM

Look at the candidate's published positions (league of women voter's survey is one) about the cancellation for county tax portion IF the new district tax passes.
Several say they will not remove the double taxation. Simple proof that passing this is not fiscally sound.

Bill14564 08-02-2022 07:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TrapX (Post 2121499)
Look at the candidate's published positions (league of women voter's survey is one) about the cancellation for county tax portion IF the new district tax passes.
Several say they will not remove the double taxation. Simple proof that passing this is not fiscally sound.

Could you provide a simple link to that survey? Or to any other information that backs up your claim? (I'm still looking on the LWV site but haven't found any survey)

EDIT: Never mind, here it is
EDIT 2: It appears you didn't read the survey or are intentionally misrepresenting the results. Out of nine candidates, one did not respond, two didn't understand the question (or chose to answer a different question) and the other six supported lowering taxes.

I have listened to two candidate forums and read what has been published in local papers. I have not seen or heard anything from any candidate saying they would "not remove the double taxation." The ONLY thing I have seen or heard in that information is Commissioner Wiley's discussion of the study the current Commissioners have in place to determine how much to remove.

Bill14564 08-29-2022 07:23 AM

18% tax increase being planned for 2023-2024 budge?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Goldwingnut (Post 2116468)
...

How much will be removed from the general fund budget, I’ve discussed this already discussed this – about $37.2M less the amount collected by the current MSBU of $124/property/year $9.1M or about $28.1M. (unrounded is $28,188,777)

How much is a millage point worth? In the proposed FY23 budget the millage rate of 5.5936 will yield $95,037,767 in ad valorem taxes or about $16,990,447.48 per millage point.

With these numbers the ad valorem tax millage rate anticipated change would be:

$28,188,777/$16,990,447.48 or 1.6591 points or about a 29.7% decrease in the ad valorem tax rate for the county general fund budget.

The current MSBU of $124/yr will also be removed from the county tax bill.


...

Thank you for these numbers. The discussion is clear and the numbers can easily be found in the FY 22-23 Proforma Budget Document in the BoCC agenda.

However, not all the numbers match.

The Ad Valorem taxes for FY 2023 are $95M as you mention above. With $28 being removed from FY2024 it would be expected that the FY2024 Ad Valorem amount would be $67M + $2M growth for a total of $69M. However, the number shown in the budget document is $81M.

$95M - $28M = $67M (expected)
$81M (actual) - $67M (expected) = $14M (increase)
If $2M of the increase is projected growth that means a $12M tax increase.

$12M (increase) / $67M (expected) = 18% tax increase being planned for the 2023-2024 budget.

These numbers are for the FY2024 budget which will be built next summer.

At which BoCC meeting or workshop next year would it be appropriate to discuss what appears to be the second large tax increase in five years?

Altavia 08-29-2022 07:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill14564 (Post 2130935)
Thank you for these numbers. The discussion is clear and the numbers can easily be found in the FY 22-23 Proforma Budget Document in the BoCC agenda.

However, not all the numbers match.

The Ad Valorem taxes for FY 2023 are $95M as you mention above. With $28 being removed from FY2024 it would be expected that the FY2024 Ad Valorem amount would be $67M + $2M growth for a total of $69M. However, the number shown in the budget document is $81M.

$95M - $28M = $67M (expected)
$81M (actual) - $67M (expected) = $14M (increase)
If $2M of the increase is projected growth that means a $12M tax increase.

$12M (increase) / $67M (expected) = 18% tax increase being planned for the 2023-2024 budget.

These numbers are for the FY2024 budget which will be built next summer.

At which BoCC meeting or workshop next year would it be appropriate to discuss what appears to be the second large tax increase in five years?

Thanks for the synthisis Don!

Rainger99 09-19-2022 12:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Goldwingnut (Post 2116468)
One last thought, this may be a difficult decision for some, the only advice I can give on this issue is when to determine if it is worthwhile. The only time you will truly be able to answer what the value of all this is when those big red trucks roll up to your home as the smoke is coming out the windows and all your possessions or the life of someone you love is at risk and these brave men and women step in to do their jobs, or as you let the hand of your most cherished one go as they are loaded into the ambulance on the way to the hospital.

I am new here so I don't know much about the current services.

Are people dying because of long wait times for ambulances or are houses burning down because fire trucks aren't getting to the scene on time? How do response times compare to the rest of Florida? Are we slower, faster, or about the same?

Altavia 09-19-2022 01:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rainger99 (Post 2138158)
I am new here so I don't know much about the current services.

Are people dying because of long wait times for ambulances or are houses burning down because fire trucks aren't getting to the scene on time? How do response times compare to the rest of Florida? Are we slower, faster, or about the same?

EMT/Fire are usually on the scene within 5-10 min.

It's not unusual for an ambulance to arrive (if needed) 30-40 min after EMT/Fire services arrive.

This obviously delays the patient reaching emergency/hospital services and ties up EMT/Fire services longer than necessary.

Rainger99 09-19-2022 05:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Altavia (Post 2138161)
It's not unusual for an ambulance to arrive (if needed) 30-40 min after EMT/Fire services arrive.

What is the reason for this delay?

And how will a new district make response times better?

Kenswing 09-19-2022 05:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rainger99 (Post 2138232)
What is the reason for this delay?

And how will a new district make response times better?

Because the current ambulance transport provider (AMR) didn’t have enough resources dedicated to the county. I think Don said that they only had 7 or 8 ambulances county wide. The Villages Public Safety Department has purchased 12 new ambulances. Of those, nine will be front line units with 3 used as spares. The County has also purchased, I think 12 ambulances. So you can see that county wide we’re going from about 7 available ambulances to around twenty or so. I would say it’s fair to assume we’ll see higher fire costs. We just tripled the number of ambulances we’ll have. I’ll happily pay the increase to insure my loved ones and neighbors can get to the hospital in a reasonable time.

Altavia 09-19-2022 06:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kenswing (Post 2138240)
Because the current ambulance transport provider (AMR) didn’t have enough resources dedicated to the county. I think Don said that they only had 7 or 8 county wide. The Villages Public Safety Department has purchased 12 new ambulances. Of those, nine will be front line units with 3 used as spares. The County has also purchased, I think 12 ambulances. So you can see that county wide we’re going from about 7 available ambulances to around twenty or so. I would say it’s fair to assume we’ll see higher fire costs. We just tripled the number of ambulances we’ll have. I’ll happily pay the increase to insure my loved one and neighbors can get to the hospital in a reasonable time.

Agree, many Villages have resident purchased defibrillators which are less effective with delayed ambulance response times.

Do I understand correctly ambulances will replace the existing Villages EMT vehicles and use existing staff?

Kenswing 09-19-2022 06:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Altavia (Post 2138247)
Agree, many Villages have resident purchased defibrillators which are less effective with delayed ambulance response times.

Do I understand correctly ambulances will replace the existing Villages EMT vehicles and use existing staff?

Our village has ordered defibrillators and trained about 100 responders. Our defibrillators are on back order due to supply chain issues.

From what I understand they will be eliminating the quick response units (pickup trucks) we called them aid cars, and replacing them with the ambulances. They are already paramedic staffed as are the engines so other than apparatus familiarization it should be a pretty seamless transition. I’m not sure what the situation is with the county as far as manpower and training.

moerman 09-27-2022 01:23 PM

Independent Fire District Cost Impact Information
 
any update info on Independent Fire District Cost Impact Information. i

kaznerm 10-15-2022 09:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Goldwingnut (Post 2116468)
This is a very long post on a very complex and important subject. I've taken the time to write it to help everyone understand the Independent Fire District issue.

There is a lot of concern about the upcoming vote on creating an Independent Fire District (IFD) formation vote that is coming up. There is also a lot of speculation and misinformation being spread by some who are trying to pass themselves off as “knowledgeable” or even as “experts”, some of these people are running for the various County Commissioner seats. At The Villages Republican Club meeting on Thursday, I heard some of these individuals speak and, in my opinion, attempt to spread fear and discontent about this as a way to sway voters on the issue and to vote for them. While I am not omnipotent in my knowledge of the topic, recent service as a District Supervisor on the CDD10 board and on PWAC as well as my current service as County Commissioner has had me deeply engaged in the issue.

What follows is an explanation of the issue and how it will impact residents in The Villages as well as outside The Villages in Sumter County. My knowledge about The Villages undertakings on the IFD is up to date as of my leaving office on June 10th when I assumed the position of County Commissioner, for the most up to date information, you should contact Mr. Kenny Blocker, the District Manager.

Concerning the IFD, there are several variables here and I'll try to explain them. Please keep in mind what I will explain is the "ideal" and “theoretical” situation and the numbers involved can and will most likely change so the net impact to any individual property owner or taxpayer is still unknown at this time.

First, we must look at the fire department structure in Sumter County, there are two, the Sumter County Fire & EMS department (SCFD) and The Villages Public Safety department (VPSD). Both are funded from the county general fund budget; the proposed budget is about $19.3M for Sumter County and $17.9M for VPSD for the 2023 fiscal year. About $37.2M in total, this is second only to the $42.4M proposed budget for the Sumter County Sheriff's Office budget.

Funding this is two principal sources 1) the $124 annual fire Municipal Service Benefit Unit (MSBU) for fires services on the property tax bill for each developed property in the county and 2) the county general fund funds the balance of the costs. There are currently 73 funding sources to the general fund and there may be some addition contributions from some of these other sources but for the sake of discussion since these would be minor sources, we’ll focus on these two primary funding sources. The MSBU projected contribution for next year (FY23) is about $9.1M, this leaves about $28.1M coming from the General Fund.

What happens next is the most important part of the process and was approved by the BOCC on Tuesday July 12th. We will have an independent company review and analyze the costs associated with the county fire department and transport services (ambulance) in the current budget and projected for the upcoming year. They will make a recommendation on the path forward for funding of the county fire department. The anticipated action is:
a) The current revenues and expenses for fire service for both fire departments will be removed from the FY24 budget. (Based on FY23 budget numbers this would be $19.3M + $17.9M in cost and $9.1M in revenue). This will result in a decrease of the ad valorem tax millage rate; these numbers are shown at the bottom of this posting.
b) The IFD and Sumter County will set a MSBU (separate, so they may be different for each) would be based on the actual number of properties serviced by each fire department and applied to their FY24 budgets. The Sumter County MSBU will be based on the outcome of the study approved by the BOCC and the IFD as determined by their needs and board’s direction.
c) Some of the remaining costs for the County Fire Department would then be assessed as a Municipal Service Taxing Unit (MSTU) on the properties service by the SCFD and not those serviced by the VSPD. The MSTU would be an ad valorem tax on the property. This will replace the ad valorem tax rate reduction for SCFD serviced residents.
d) The balance of the costs should be recovered in Transport Fees – the fees charged for transport by the county ambulance services that were approved last year. These costs and revenues still need to be calculated.

I'm no longer engaged with the VPSD and District office for The Villages since becoming a member of the BOCC but will share with you what I know of the anticipated plan for the VPSD funding. Please follow up with the District staff and Mr. Kenny Blocker (District Manager) for the most up to date details on this.
a) A board of supervisors for the Independent Fire District will be appointed by the Governor, presumably these will be residents within the IFD.
b) The IFD will determine its funding requirements and operating budget.
c) The IFD board will establish their own MSBU to support their funding – this is the fixed dollar amount per parcel.
d) The board will set their own MSTU (or equivalent) to cover the majority of the operating cost – this is the value-based ad valorem tax millage rate that could be as high as 2 millage points ($2 per $1000 assessed value).
e) The Villages residents also contribute $4.08 each month from each Amenity Fee paid to supplement the VPSD budget, about $3.5M as best I can recall from the budget workshops earlier this year. This helps fund the extra services such as smoke alarm battery change out and AED programs.
f) Like the SCFD, VPSD will also be collecting Transport Fees for the ambulance services they provide, these revenues will also be applied to the operating budget to offset costs.

Again, for the most accurate information please contact Mr. Kenny Blocker, The Villages District Manager.

For both fire departments there may be internal and external revenue sources that may offset some of the operating cost in addition to what I’ve described above. These will be up to their governing boards to pursue.

The vote on the general election ballot on November 8th is only about establishing the IFD and not about the ambulance services. The ambulance service issue was resolved last year and is moving forward in both fire districts. This is the result of residents of The Villages and County Residents requirements for better, more effective, and more responsive emergency transport services. The BOCC listened and reacted accordingly. This higher level of service will come with a price that reflects additional staffing and equipment costs. In the ideal world, these will be cost neutral and self-funding from the transport fees collected.

There may also be some startup costs for both fire departments associated with establishing an IFD that would have to be absorbed in their initial budgets.

In the end you should see on your county tax bill:
a) A lower ad valorem property tax
b) An MSBU – possibly different for each fire district
c) An MSTU – dependent on your fire districts budget requirements and any other offsetting revenue sources.

This method that is in motion that I have described removes the cost of fire protection and transport service from the general property tax bill and collects it from the separate MSBU and MSTU fees. It prevents residents in or outside The Villages from being double taxed for the fire services.

In the ideal world there would be a net zero change in your property tax bill, but there are other factors that come into play such as the costs and revenues from the in-house ambulance services that were approved last year, as well as many other things.

Again, please understand that what I've described is the ideal situation and there are many variables that will impact this and there are a lot of numbers to be crunched to determine the exact impacts and cost. Also, please reach out to Mr. Blocker for more details on the VPSD funding side.

One of the drums that have been being banged by these fear mongering “experts” is that the actual numbers for the cost impact won’t be known until June 30th 2023. While upsetting to some, this is not an attempt from either Sumter County or VPSD to hide anything, it is simply because these numbers are still being and will continue to be calculated. A little forethought should put this issue into perspective:
a) On the county side the ad valorem millage rate adjustment can’t be calculated until the exact number of properties and their values are determined in each fire district is known, this is a huge task that the Property Appraiser must do each fiscal year.
b) Both fire departments have to determine their operating costs under the new configurations, this is still in transition.
c) Transport costs and recovery rates that impact the budgets can’t be accurately determined until they are operational and have some operating history.
d) Current economic conditions (inflation) are very unpredictable, the closer to the go-live point that budgets are determined the more accurate they will be.

All of these things being considered we can do some rough calculations on some of the impact of the proposed changes. I’ll use the proposed FY23 budget numbers to get an approximation of some of the items.
To determine the ad valorem tax millage rate change we need to know two things, 1) the value of the fire service costs to be removed and 2) the value of 1 millage point.

How much will be removed from the general fund budget, I’ve discussed this already discussed this – about $37.2M less the amount collected by the current MSBU of $124/property/year $9.1M or about $28.1M. (unrounded is $28,188,777)

How much is a millage point worth? In the proposed FY23 budget the millage rate of 5.5936 will yield $95,037,767 in ad valorem taxes or about $16,990,447.48 per millage point.

With these numbers the ad valorem tax millage rate anticipated change would be:

$28,188,777/$16,990,447.48 or 1.6591 points or about a 29.7% decrease in the ad valorem tax rate for the county general fund budget.

The current MSBU of $124/yr will also be removed from the county tax bill.

This ad valorem tax decrease and MSBU removal will be replaced by a new tax, an MSTU, and a new MSBU for each fire district on the county tax bill. How much these new taxes are still being determined. If I had to guess, on The Villages side the rates may be comparable between old and new, on the county side it is much more difficult to determine so I won’t speculate at this time.

Again, these numbers are very rough and have a great many other factors that will be considered that will affect them. These are also based on FY23 values and not the more accurate yet to be determined FY24 numbers. Overall, this should give you some ideas of what things are looking like.

Neither the Sumter County BOCC or The Villages District Staff are trying to hide any information or misrepresent anything to anyone, it is simply a very complex and lengthy process both are going through in preparation for a possible approval vote to the referendum in November. Information has been and will continue to be made available as it becomes available.

Finally, once again I say, for the most up to date information on The Villages side of the issue please contact Mr. Kenny Blocker, and on the Sumter County side we won’t have accurate answers until sometime in the first half of 2023 when the study is completed.

I know this explanation is lengthy and detailed, it is a complex issue and process. I hope this explanation has helped you understand where things are going with funding of the fire departments in Sumter County.

One last thought, this may be a difficult decision for some, the only advice I can give on this issue is when to determine if it is worthwhile. The only time you will truly be able to answer what the value of all this is when those big red trucks roll up to your home as the smoke is coming out the windows and all your possessions or the life of someone you love is at risk and these brave men and women step in to do their jobs, or as you let the hand of your most cherished one go as they are loaded into the ambulance on the way to the hospital. It is only at these moments that you will ever know that on November 8th, if you made the right decision.

You have explained how the issue could financially affect us, but what I would like to know is how our fire services would change if the measure is passed.

Daddymac 10-17-2022 12:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Travelhunter123 (Post 2116706)
I agree completely with the concept and improved response time.
The controversy’s seem to be the complexity and lack of firm budgets and estimates .
We are being asked to take a “leap of faith” and trust the impact is approximately cost neutral.
It would be easier to decide if the proponents provided a firm not to exceed budget of + or - X percent

Read up on it!!! They said there will be NO CHANGE TO THE SERVICES !! :confused::confused::confused:

Daddymac 10-17-2022 12:37 PM

The fire department staffers calculated the new fire assessment fee. Based on the results of this analysis, she determined that Instead of paying $124.00, they will be paying $516.00. Your fee will be different from others because all properties ARE NOT being assessed the same fee. The fee will be based on the MARKET VALUE of your house. A home in your neighborhood may be paying more than you or less than you, even though you will be receiving the SAME SERVICES. If your house burns, or another house burns, both will still get the same number of responders and fire trucks no matter how much of a fee has been paid.

There is no cap on the residential fees that will be charged, and they can increase yearly. There is a cap on commercial properties … Guess who that benefits?
There ARE NO NEW SERVICES if the referendum passes!

I am very concerned, and do not like the thought of paying this added tax on top of all the other taxes we already pay…......and based on MARKET value!!

Ambulances have been purchased and are ready to go October 1, 2022 and will be staffed with paramedics from the fire dept.



If the referendum is VOTED DOWN, the county continues to fund the fire dept. (FUNDING HAS NEVER BEEN DENIED BY THE COUNTY) and we continue to receive all the services we have been getting.
The referendum, if passed, would set up a NEW TAXING DISTRICT controlled by The Villages for the first 3–5 years before we can start electing villagers of our choice. If the referendum is passed, it CANNOT be reversed or undone. It will be here to stay!


Please vote NO on this referendum on November 8th. OUR NEW ambulance service and existing fire department will not change if you vote NO!
Please forward to fellow villagers . . . . . .

Kenswing 10-17-2022 12:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daddymac (Post 2147926)
The fire department staffers calculated the new fire assessment fee. Based on the results of this analysis, she determined that Instead of paying $124.00, they will be paying $516.00. Your fee will be different from others because all properties ARE NOT being assessed the same fee. The fee will be based on the MARKET VALUE of your house. A home in your neighborhood may be paying more than you or less than you, even though you will be receiving the SAME SERVICES. If your house burns, or another house burns, both will still get the same number of responders and fire trucks no matter how much of a fee has been paid.

There is no cap on the residential fees that will be charged, and they can increase yearly. There is a cap on commercial properties … Guess who that benefits?
There ARE NO NEW SERVICES if the referendum passes!

I am very concerned, and do not like the thought of paying this added tax on top of all the other taxes we already pay…......and based on MARKET value!!

Ambulances have been purchased and are ready to go October 1, 2022 and will be staffed with paramedics from the fire dept.



If the referendum is VOTED DOWN, the county continues to fund the fire dept. (FUNDING HAS NEVER BEEN DENIED BY THE COUNTY) and we continue to receive all the services we have been getting.
The referendum, if passed, would set up a NEW TAXING DISTRICT controlled by The Villages for the first 3–5 years before we can start electing villagers of our choice. If the referendum is passed, it CANNOT be reversed or undone. It will be here to stay!


Please vote NO on this referendum on November 8th. OUR NEW ambulance service and existing fire department will not change if you vote NO!
Please forward to fellow villagers . . . . . .

Quit telling people how to vote. We’re all capable of making our own decisions.

Again. Are you an elected official? A board member of one of the homeowners groups or just a concerned citizen? Just trying to determine your motivation in this whole thing. You seem to be more vested than most.

Bill14564 10-17-2022 12:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daddymac (Post 2147926)
The fire department staffers calculated the new fire assessment fee. Based on the results of this analysis, she determined that Instead of paying $124.00, they will be paying $516.00. Your fee will be different from others because all properties ARE NOT being assessed the same fee. The fee will be based on the MARKET VALUE of your house. A home in your neighborhood may be paying more than you or less than you, even though you will be receiving the SAME SERVICES. If your house burns, or another house burns, both will still get the same number of responders and fire trucks no matter how much of a fee has been paid.

There is no cap on the residential fees that will be charged, and they can increase yearly. There is a cap on commercial properties … Guess who that benefits?
There ARE NO NEW SERVICES if the referendum passes!

I am very concerned, and do not like the thought of paying this added tax on top of all the other taxes we already pay…......and based on MARKET value!!

Ambulances have been purchased and are ready to go October 1, 2022 and will be staffed with paramedics from the fire dept.



If the referendum is VOTED DOWN, the county continues to fund the fire dept. (FUNDING HAS NEVER BEEN DENIED BY THE COUNTY) and we continue to receive all the services we have been getting.
The referendum, if passed, would set up a NEW TAXING DISTRICT controlled by The Villages for the first 3–5 years before we can start electing villagers of our choice. If the referendum is passed, it CANNOT be reversed or undone. It will be here to stay!


Please vote NO on this referendum on November 8th. OUR NEW ambulance service and existing fire department will not change if you vote NO!
Please forward to fellow villagers . . . . . .

STILL MISLEADING! See discussion in the other thread on this topic.

kkingston57 10-17-2022 01:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by milling73 (Post 2116914)
This thread makes for fascinating, and very complicated reading: of explanations, estimated and ‘in a perfect world’ cost / tax variables that blur the actual outcome.
As a home owner it is the reality of the bottom line dollar amount on the tax bill due that is simple, real, and one I can understand:
And It is going to be higher.

Best response to all of the opinions/what if's in this string. This is a complicated issue and will never end. Some people want Rolls Royce service on a Ford/Chevy budget and with at least 4 different entities, The Villages, Lake County, Sumter County and Marion County.

Mrs.Guy 10-17-2022 02:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kenswing (Post 2147932)
Quit telling people how to vote. We’re all capable of making our own decisions.

Again. Are you an elected official? A board member of one of the homeowners groups or just a concerned citizen? Just trying to determine your motivation in this whole thing. You seem to be more vested than most.

:confused: I too am trying to determine his motivation. I find it hard to believe that a Villager wants Sumter Co.(the people that gave us AMR) to stay in control of our VPSD. What am I missing?

Bilyclub 10-17-2022 03:56 PM

Did you forget that the county commissioners who put AMR in were backed by the developer.
What the developer wants, the developer gets, one way or another. Even when the people voted
in the 3 county commissioners, who won that battle in the end ?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ZYG2PCyNfE

dewilson58 10-17-2022 04:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bilyclub (Post 2147982)
who won that battle in the end ?

what battle??

dewilson58 10-17-2022 04:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Altavia (Post 2138161)

It's not unusual for an ambulance to arrive (if needed) 30-40 min after EMT/Fire services arrive.

Have not heard this.................please share your supporting data and source.

Stu from NYC 10-17-2022 04:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dewilson58 (Post 2147984)
what battle??

You know very well what battle.

Happydaz 10-17-2022 04:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Romad (Post 2116667)
1. The cost will be established by unelected people, not necessarily from TV.
2. The actual cost per homeowner won’t be known until June 2023.
3. The assessment will be based on actual home values instead of assessed value. Who determines them?

While Mr. Wiley’s response is long, he failed to address why so many were concerned about the cost last Thursday. If he was there, why didn’t he speak up?

If you thought the 25% tax increase over the roads was bad, you haven’t seen anything yet.

I think more of us would be interested in the cost for one fire department in Sumter county instead of two.

This was a reasoned response to the complex subject being discussed here. Where I came from in New England there was no way a high cost item with fuzzy math like this would ever pass on a first or second vote. It took 6 years to pass a bill to pay for a new police station. The price was cut in half in year six and the town of 7000 approved the expense.

JMintzer 10-17-2022 04:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kenswing (Post 2147932)
Quit telling people how to vote. We’re all capable of making our own decisions.

Again. Are you an elected official? A board member of one of the homeowners groups or just a concerned citizen? Just trying to determine your motivation in this whole thing. You seem to be more vested than most.

"Please vote no" is TELLING people how to vote?

I read it as his opinion and a request...

oldtimes 10-17-2022 05:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mrs.Guy (Post 2147960)
:confused: I too am trying to determine his motivation. I find it hard to believe that a Villager wants Sumter Co.(the people that gave us AMR) to stay in control of our VPSD. What am I missing?

Absolutely agree. This poster sounds like more than a concerned Villager.

oldtimes 10-17-2022 05:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JMintzer (Post 2147998)
"Please vote no" is TELLING people how to vote?

I read it as his opinion and a request...

“Please forward to fellow villagers . . . . . .“ sounds like more than a request

dewilson58 10-17-2022 05:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kenswing (Post 2147932)
Just trying to determine your motivation in this whole thing.

Lives in NYC.................need to know anything more???

:evil6:

dewilson58 10-17-2022 05:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kaznerm (Post 2147101)
You have explained how the issue could financially affect us, but what I would like to know is how our fire services would change if the measure is passed.

That can not be answered.............changes will be determined by FD Leadership in place in the future (may be new leadership, may be the same leadership).

Bill14564 10-17-2022 05:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dewilson58 (Post 2147985)
Have not heard this.................please share your supporting data and source.

There is this: https://www.**************.com/2021/06/24/the-villages-fire-chief-contends-fire-departments-should-take-over-ambulance-operations/ (replace the broken link with the news-site-that-shall-not-be-named). I'm sure there are documents on the ad-hoc committee pages that support this as well but I haven't taken the time to find them yet.

dewilson58 10-17-2022 06:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill14564 (Post 2148015)
There is this:

Over one and a half years old news.

Babubhat 10-17-2022 06:14 PM

If it can’t be explained in one paragraph forget it. Don’t expect a complicated matter to turn out well with the usual suspects involved

Bill14564 10-17-2022 06:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dewilson58 (Post 2148017)
Over one and a half years old news.

What you missed....

About one and a half years ago a commission was put together to look for solutions to the ambulance response times. The ultimate outcome of that effort was adding ambulance service to both the VPSD and the SCFD beginning the first of this month. Service did start under the VPSD but I think there is a delay with the SCFD side of things.

Recent articles have mentioned the large number of calls that have been received and the good response times in the Villages. Hopefully, that continues in the Villages and is also seen in the rest of the county once the SCFD begins providing that service.

During the vote of the ad-hoc committee, a motion was made and seconded to combine the VPSD and SCFD rather than keeping them separate. The motion was defeated at the time but some link the current push for the IFD back to that motion. One of those on the ad-hoc committee who was associated with that motion is a newly elected commissioner. The IFD would protect the VPSD from that same motion being made at the BoCC level.

dewilson58 10-17-2022 06:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Babubhat (Post 2148018)
If it can’t be explained in one paragraph forget it. Don’t expect a complicated matter to turn out well with the usual suspects involved

I know what you are saying..........about the Usuals.

But, there are people who will read and will analyze and will educate themself.

I have extensive experience with city, county and state fund accounting and budgeting and Don did a great job accurately explaining.

I believe there are some who learned.

The Usuals, they will continue.

:pepper2:

Bilyclub 10-17-2022 09:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dewilson58 (Post 2147984)
what battle??


The impact fee increase that never happened.

Stu from NYC 10-17-2022 09:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bilyclub (Post 2148052)
The impact fee increase that never happened.

The developer did have his executive vp who was also in the Fl legislature put forth legislation that he wanted passed. Than he hired a law firm to dig up dirt on the three newly elected commissioners. In other words what the developers wants he does get

dewilson58 10-18-2022 06:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bilyclub (Post 2148052)
The impact fee increase that never happened.

If that was a battle, the battle was over before the first swing.

That was no battle.

That was a silly campaign promise, promised by inexperienced candidates, an believed by some voters.

Bill14564 10-18-2022 06:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dewilson58 (Post 2148082)
If that was a battle, the battle was over before the first swing.

That was no battle.

That was a silly campaign promise, promised by inexperienced candidates, an believed by some voters.

I have to disagree in part. The voters (some) believed the BoCC had some control over how the county was run. The promise was kept and the measure was passed to raise the road impact fees.

As it turns out, in reality neither the BoCC nor the voters control the county: the decision was taken out of their hands and the commissioners were removed from the BoCC.

dewilson58 10-18-2022 06:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill14564 (Post 2148087)
The promise was kept and the measure was passed to raise the road impact fees.

The silly promise was, reversing the 25% increase in RE Taxes by increasing the Impact Fee................that was never going to happen.

Voters didn't care about a minor increase in the Impact Fee...........they wanted the 25% reversed.


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:29 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2025, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Search Engine Optimisation provided by DragonByte SEO v2.0.32 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2025 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.