Originally Posted by oldtimes (Post 2149411)

Yes there is definitely an agenda going on here. Someone stands to gain greatly to see this defeated.

Originally Posted by Altavia (Post 2149417)

Just the normal haters.

Name one service Sumter County does better or at a lower cost to Villages residents?

Originally Posted by mrf0151 (Post 2149391)

Villages Separate Fire District Referendum

This is from a friend who follows all of the political issues in both The Villages and the surrounding counties. She has checked out the fire department thoroughly and lists the facts below.

Info regarding the referendum on the November 8th ballot.

She has been following the The Villages’ push for a separate fire district. She met with Chief Cain & Deputy Chief Goodworth on Friday, July 22nd and followed up with an email to Jim Goodworth on August 1st to clarify some of her questions and received answers August 3rd, and then attended a VHA meeting at Miona on September 14th.

Here is what she learned.

The fire department staffers calculated the new fire assessment fee. Based on the results of this analysis, she determined that Instead of paying $124.00, they will be paying $516.00. Your fee will be different from others because all properties ARE NOT being assessed the same fee. The fee will be based on the MARKET VALUE of your house. A home in your neighborhood may be paying more than you or less than you, even though you will be receiving the SAME SERVICES. If your house burns, or another house burns, both will still get the same number of responders and fire trucks no matter how much of a fee has been paid.

There is no cap on the residential fees that will be charged, and they can increase yearly. There is a cap on commercial properties … Guess who that benefits?

There ARE NO NEW SERVICES if the referendum passes.

Ambulances have been purchased and are ready to go October 1, 2022 and will be staffed with paramedics from the fire dept.

If the referendum is voted down, the county continues to fund the fire dept. (FUNDING HAS NEVER BEEN DENIED BY THE COUNTY) and we continue to receive all the services we have been getting.

The referendum, if passed, would set up a NEW TAXING DISTRICT controlled by The Villages for the first 3–5 years before we can start electing villagers of our choice. If the referendum is passed, it cannot be reversed or undone. It is here to stay!

Please vote NO on this referendum on November 8th. OUR NEW ambulance service and existing fire department will not change if you vote NO!

Please forward to fellow villagers . . . . . .

Originally Posted by charlie1 (Post 2149426)

ANYBODY THAT DID ANY RESEARCH WILL KNOW THAT THIS DOES NOT TAKE INTO ACCOUNT THE REDUCTION IN THE SUMTER COUNTY TAXES! PLEASE GIVE COMPLETE FACTS BEFORE SPREADING YOUR INCOMPLETE PICTURE.

All I know is that this whole thing started with a vote to merge the current villages fire department into the Sumter County Fire department. We all know how good Sumter was with Ambulance service! Why would we want them to take over the fire department also. Without a separate district, Sumter can do whatever they please with both the ambulance and fire departments. They would not need a referendum! Once the district is finalized, they lose the option to merge the departments.

Originally Posted by Byte1 (Post 2149430)

Ok, so if I am not mistaken, my taxes will go up because now I will be paying for emergency services twice. Because I will be paying via the county taxes and via some TV added tax. My bond is paid so I am not sure I am convinced that paying TV another fee/tax is something I look forward to. Until someone explains it in a manner that convinces me that paying twice is a good idea, I think I'll pass on it. Not sure if I like the answers of "maybe, IF, might, could" or a promise of better service. Better than what? Does anyone have a problem with our current Fire Dept? I am not trying to stir up trouble. Just trying to understand the advantage of paying more for something I hopefully will never need to use. I also attempt to get the best price for insurance every chance I get. Living on a limited income, I try to be prudent with my finances when possible.

Originally Posted by Byte1 (Post 2149430)

Ok, so if I am not mistaken, my taxes will go up because now I will be paying for emergency services twice. Because I will be paying via the county taxes and via some TV added tax. My bond is paid so I am not sure I am convinced that paying TV another fee/tax is something I look forward to. Until someone explains it in a manner that convinces me that paying twice is a good idea, I think I'll pass on it. Not sure if I like the answers of "maybe, IF, might, could" or a promise of better service. Better than what? Does anyone have a problem with our current Fire Dept? I am not trying to stir up trouble. Just trying to understand the advantage of paying more for something I hopefully will never need to use. I also attempt to get the best price for insurance every chance I get. Living on a limited income, I try to be prudent with my finances when possible.

Originally Posted by Bill14564 (Post 2149440)

You are mistaken.

You will not pay twice for the IFD/VPSD. If the IFD passes, Sumter County will no longer fund the VPSD, they will no longer take ad-valorem taxes to send to the VPSD.

Originally Posted by golfing eagles (Post 2149428)

I think you pretty much nailed it.

It seems to be that the main advantage of a separate IFD is protection against the VSPD getting merged into Sumter Co.
The disadvantage appears to be that, while this should be relatively revenue neutral, there is no guarantee that the county will reduce its milage rate to reflect the fact that they will no longer be paying for the VSPD

Originally Posted by charlie1 (Post 2149462)

The county will have to reduce funds for Fire Protection in their budget unless they have HUGE expansion plans for what would be left of the county fire department. The only way they could keep the taxes the same would be to add those funds to other budget categories which then would result in keeping our county taxes the same. However, I am sure there will be residents and/or the press watching the budget closely to make sure this would get exposed.

Originally Posted by Bilyclub (Post 2149471)

You must have missed the last big tax hike, the subsequent county commissioner election, and the whole impact fee mess. The residents wanted the higher impact fees and the developer's minion did an end a round. There is no press here, except for the Daily Sun.

Originally Posted by Bill14564 (Post 2149440)

You are mistaken.

You will not pay twice for the IFD/VPSD. If the IFD passes, Sumter County will no longer fund the VPSD, they will no longer take ad-valorem taxes to send to the VPSD.

Originally Posted by Byte1 (Post 2149485)

Ok, great. Then the rest of the county, non-TV residences will pay the bulk of the CO's IFD/VPSD? How will that go over? Something doesn't quite seem right here. That means, even if they don't make it up in some other manner, a large chunk of revenue coming from TV will to the county will cease and the remainder of the Sumter Co. residents will have to make up the deficit. Or, am I missing something?

Originally Posted by golfing eagles (Post 2149492)

Don Wiley is the expert on this, I am not. However, I interpreted his statements to mean that residents of TV in Sumter County will pay for the VSPD and not the rest of the county, and the residents of the non-Villages part of Sumter County will pay for their part. His numbers showed the costs to be about the same, about 25% coming from the per parcel assessment and the rest out of the general budget. When split off, all of the 18-19 million costs for the VSPD will come from the "fee", so that part will go up---someone calculated from $124 to $516. That increase should be offset by a reduction in county tax, since they will no longer be paying that 18-19 million. Of course, you will still pay general county taxes, and therefore your total tax bill will be dependent upon the county doing the "right thing"

Originally Posted by Stu from NYC (Post 2149501)

Can we trust the county to do the right thing? Only good thing is I believe most of the commissioners for Sumter are from TV.

Originally Posted by Bogie Shooter (Post 2149527)

You know what happened to the last commissioners that did NOT do the right thing………

Originally Posted by Babubhat (Post 2149530)

If it’s too complicated it can’t be good

Originally Posted by Plinker (Post 2149764)

The fact that this referendum has generated such a voluminous amount of posts which contain both accurate and inaccurate information, strongly suggests to me that it is not ready for prime time. If the pros and cons and costs cannot be clearly articulated, I will have a hard time supporting it.
The following questions deserve a precise answer:
Let’s assume a home has a 2022 (current) TRIM notice of “X” dollars which includes all ad-valorem and valorem taxes.
1. Assuming the lowest variable fire fee(s) proposed, what would my new “X” be?
2. Assuming the variable fire fee(s) are at maximum, what would my new”X” be?
3. What specific advantages are there to vote “yes”?
4. What are the specific disadvantages to vote “no”?
If these questions cannot be clearly answered without ambiguity due to so much variability in the calculations then the proposal needs more work.

Originally Posted by Bogie Shooter (Post 2149527)

You know what happened to the last commissioners that did NOT do the right thing………

Originally Posted by Mrs.Guy (Post 2149786)

:shrug: Are we talking about following the state's "Sunshine Law"? Or maybe the new probe by the state's Commission on Ethics that has found probable cause that the ex-commissioner awaiting trial may have violated Florida's gift law? Amazingly I didn't see that mentioned after yestersday's front page story in the paper. Don't think the online rag mentioned it either. :confused:

Originally Posted by Bill14564 (Post 2149789)

Possibly not mentioned because it doesn't fit the topic and might be considered political.

Originally Posted by Mrs.Guy (Post 2149801)

...

On a different note - In your research on this have you seen anything on the projected billing for TVPS Ambulance Service? I would think it could be substantial and would considerably offset the cost. :undecided:

Originally Posted by Mrs.Guy (Post 2149786)

:shrug: Are we talking about following the state's "Sunshine Law"? Or maybe the new probe by the state's Commission on Ethics that has found probable cause that the ex-commissioner awaiting trial may have violated Florida's gift law? Amazingly I didn't see that mentioned after yestersday's front page story in the paper. Don't think the online rag mentioned it either. :confused:

Originally Posted by Bill14564 (Post 2149774)

1. and 2. cannot be determined because they are dependent on changes to the property tax rate that will be made by the BoCC. I can tell you exactly how much you would pay to the IFD/VPSD but I can't tell you how much less you will pay to Sumter County.

If you used the same standards for purchasing a home then you would still be living with your parents. A realtor can tell you how much you would pay in property taxes today but there is no way to predict what the assessed value or property tax rate will be next year. There is ALWAYS ambiguity in these numbers until the final quarter of the year.

For 3. there is a lot of information on the Public Safety page under districtgov.org. Much of it boils down to preventing the possibility of bad things happening if the IFD is not created.

For 4. there are no specific disadvantages. There are *possible* disadvantages if the IFD board does this bad thing or the BoCC does that bad thing but if you assume noble intent then these bad things won't happen.

Originally Posted by oldtimes (Post 2149411)

Yes there is definitely an agenda going on here. Someone stands to gain greatly to see this defeated.

Originally Posted by Bilyclub (Post 2149835)

In essence you are saying this whole IFD is based on "what ifs" for the pros and cons.
This was not well thought out with a lot of vagueness built in.

Originally Posted by Happydaz (Post 2149858)

Yes someone does stand to gain, the homeowner! No way am I going to vote for a $500 increase in my taxes and the creation of a commission that is not answerable to The Villagers. The governor appoints these people they are not elected. Why would I approve something that will add $500 to my tax bill when I don’t know yet how much Sumter County will reduce my taxes by? For example, let’s say my designer home costs me $500 more to have a separate Villages Fire Department (The ambulance service has already been folded into our local fire stations so that is not an issue in this election.) Later Sumter County looks at the next tax season and decides they may need new schools with all the new homes and apartments being built so they only reduce my taxes by $200. So this new Villages Fire Department ends up costing me $300 extra. Who is going to gamble on setting this up without knowing how this will all play out. No businessman I know would enter into a deal like this without knowing all the costs involved. Why should I trust another government commission to administer my fire department? I need more facts and exact dollar amounts before I would favor a separate fire department.

Originally Posted by Happydaz (Post 2149858)

Yes someone does stand to gain, the homeowner! No way am I going to vote for a $500 increase in my taxes and the creation of a commission that is not answerable to The Villagers. The governor appoints these people they are not elected. Why would I approve something that will add $500 to my tax bill when I don’t know yet how much Sumter County will reduce my taxes by? For example, let’s say my designer home costs me $500 more to have a separate Villages Fire Department (The ambulance service has already been folded into our local fire stations so that is not an issue in this election.) Later Sumter County looks at the next tax season and decides they may need new schools with all the new homes and apartments being built so they only reduce my taxes by $200. So this new Villages Fire Department ends up costing me $300 extra. Who is going to gamble on setting this up without knowing how this will all play out. No businessman I know would enter into a deal like this without knowing all the costs involved. Why should I trust another government commission to administer my fire department? I need more facts and exact dollar amounts before I would favor a separate fire department.

Originally Posted by Babubhat (Post 2149859)

Let them come back next year with concrete numbers.

Originally Posted by Plinker (Post 2149877)

Exactly my point. Wait until next year and provide a link so each property owner can get a precise dollar amount they would pay if the proposal was enacted. Also, more clearly offer pros and cons of a yes/no vote. Then, place the proposal on the ballot. Sure, the numbers will change year to year, but at least we will have a baseline to draw conclusions.
Right now, it appears that no concrete numbers are possible until AFTER the referendum passes. If this is the case then it appears the cart is ahead of the horse.

Originally Posted by Bill14564 (Post 2149888)

Concrete numbers for your current assessment are available today and have been for a while now. How can you not know that after all the posts, articles, and announcements?

Originally Posted by Plinker (Post 2149909)

I am fully aware of the current assessments. How that would change next year should this referendum pass is anybodies guess. That is what many of the posts are concerned about. I’m agreeing with those stated concerns.

Originally Posted by Plinker (Post 2149877)

Exactly my point. Wait until next year and provide a link so each property owner can get a precise dollar amount they would pay if the proposal was enacted. Also, more clearly offer pros and cons of a yes/no vote. Then, place the proposal on the ballot. Sure, the numbers will change year to year, but at least we will have a baseline to draw conclusions.
Right now, it appears that no concrete numbers are possible until AFTER the referendum passes. If this is the case then it appears the cart is ahead of the horse.

Originally Posted by Bill14564 (Post 2149888)

Concrete numbers for your current assessment are available today and have been for a while now. How can you not know that after all the posts, articles, and announcements?

Originally Posted by Plinker (Post 2149909)

I am fully aware of the current assessments. How that would change next year should this referendum pass is anybodies guess. That is what many of the posts are concerned about. I’m agreeing with those stated concerns.

Originally Posted by Bill14564 (Post 2149911)

How will it change if the referendum does not pass? You don’t know that either yet that is apparently not a concern?

Originally Posted by Bill14564 (Post 2149919)

What do we know & what don't we know:

Assessments:
- Change every year
- Went up significantly this year
- Don't know what will happen next year
- With the IFD: Don't know
- Without the IFD: Don't know

Property tax rate:
- 6.15mils last year
- 5.59 mils this year
- ??? next year
- With the IFD: Will be decreased some amount due to VPSD being removed from budget
- Without the IFD: Don't know

VPSD budget request:
- $16M last year
- $17.6M this year
- ??? next year
- With the IFD: Don't know but will likely be approved
- Without the IFD: Don't know but will likely be approved

Fire protection cost per Village home:
- $124 + 1.33 mil last year
- $124 + 1.65 mil this year
- ??? next year
- With the IFD: $124 + 0.75*Improved value + 0.1mil (estimated)
--- Works out to be about $124 + 1.1 mil or about 0.5mil LESS than this year
--- For an exact dollar amount use the VPSD tax estimator
- Without the IFD: $124 + xxx mil
--- where xxx was 1.33 last year, 1.65 this year, and likely to be more next year

So what concrete information do you have about next year if the IFD does not pass? What will my assessment be? What will the VPSD budget be? What will my fire protection cost be? What precise numbers can you provide for next year if the IFD fails? If concrete numbers aren't available for the case where the IFD fails then by your logic it is time to pass the IFD.

Originally Posted by Byte1 (Post 2149998)

I don't know about others on here, but I am not convinced and therefore plan to vote to remain "status quo" because right now we kind of know what to expect. No one can give us definitive answers (and I understand their inability) to the cost to us if we change. Until such a time as we get a better understanding, I will have to vote "NO"