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-   The Villages, Florida, General Discussion (https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/villages-florida-general-discussion-73/)
-   -   Inflation Gone Wild (https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/villages-florida-general-discussion-73/inflation-gone-wild-350619/)

JMintzer 06-10-2024 04:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pennyt (Post 2339464)
It's not minimum wage and taxes. Have you seen the difference in what CEOs are paid vs the workers in a company? "The median CEO in the S&P 500 was paid 196 times as much as the median employee in 2023, according to an analysis by Equilar and The Associated Press. That’s up from a ratio of 185 in 2022. The widening divide is driven by the fact that CEO pay — which is closely tied to share prices — is rising notably faster than that of employees." (compensationresources.com)

If you spread those "massive" CEO salaries among the employees, it would amount to a few dollars per paycheck for each employee...

JMintzer 06-10-2024 04:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill14564 (Post 2339622)
Isn’t that the definition of inflation having gone down? If inflation had remained the same then prices would have continued to go up as fast as they were back then.

Doesn't make anything cheaper though, does it?

Bill14564 06-10-2024 04:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rainger99 (Post 2339651)
If a river is within its banks on day 1 and is 10 feet above flood stage on day 2 and is 12 feet above flood stage on day 3, and 13 feet above flood stage on day 4, would you say that the water has gone down?

I would say it is rising far less on day 4 than it was on day 2. It is still rising, but it is rising less. Water will not go down until the rate of rising has peaked, slowed, stopped, and then reversed.

Prices are still going up because there is still inflation. Prices are not going up as fast because inflation has decreased. For prices to go down inflation will need to drop to zero and then go negative (deflation). But the rate of increase in prices is the rate of inflation so if prices are going up more slowly it is because inflation has decreased.

Bill14564 06-10-2024 05:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JMintzer (Post 2339655)
Doesn't make anything cheaper though, does it?

It makes things cheaper than they would have been if inflation was still high.

Philipd411 06-10-2024 05:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbb (Post 2339484)
Respectfully disagree. I think inflation has given many businesses "permission" to raise prices to whatever they think they can "get away" with, regardless how their costs have increased.

Businesses have always set their prices at what they could get away with. The average profit margin for a grocery store is 2 to 3%. A restaurant is 3 to 5%. Airlines about 1 to 2%. A car wash is 35 to 50%. They may raise their prices but the margin stays the same.

OrangeBlossomBaby 06-10-2024 06:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rainger99 (Post 2339617)
I was in a bakery two years and took this photograph. It explains why prices have gone up. And for those who claim that inflation is down since then, that is wrong. Inflation has not gone down. Prices just aren't going up as fast as they were back then.

Where was that photo taken? I mean what part of the country?

Also - that's kinda really scary, if you think about how Dunkin Donuts prices haven't gone up that much. Neither has a chocolate croissant at Panera.

So what are these stores doing, that your bakery didn't do? Or what are they NOT doing, that your bakery did?

Rainger99 06-10-2024 06:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OrangeBlossomBaby (Post 2339678)
Where was that photo taken? I mean what part of the country?

Also - that's kinda really scary, if you think about how Dunkin Donuts prices haven't gone up that much. Neither has a chocolate croissant at Panera.

So what are these stores doing, that your bakery didn't do? Or what are they NOT doing, that your bakery did?

I was in Minnesota. I was just passing through but I thought the sign was interesting. It was my first and only visit so I don’t know how much they raised prices.

CoachKandSportsguy 06-10-2024 07:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rainger99 (Post 2339651)
If a river is within its banks on day 1 and is 10 feet above flood stage on day 2 and is 12 feet above flood stage on day 3, and 13 feet above flood stage on day 4, would you say that the water has gone down?

Inflation is the rate of change of prices, a comparison of price levels at different times.

In your example, Inflation is the rate of change of flooding, not the level of the water. In your example the inflation (water rising rate) has gone down. The water level does not go down until the rate of change goes negative.

Only deflation, negative price changes, will result in price levels going down.

There are many, many economic reasons why deflation is avoided at all costs.
There are also many unintended consequences of near zero inflation, which in the long term, is not good for everyone in today's world.

Normal inflation is within the 3-5% range, and so today is more about normalization than recent history has provided, which is an exception. .

tophcfa 06-10-2024 07:58 PM

I wouldn’t disagree that inflation has gone wild. Although complaining about each individual thing may seem petty, they all add up to aggregate amounts that are not petty at all. It’s been a game changer for many, and not in a good way.

Rainger99 06-10-2024 07:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CoachKandSportsguy (Post 2339691)
Only deflation, negative price changes, will result in price levels going down.
There are many, many economic reasons why deflation is avoided at all costs.

Not everyone agrees that deflation is bad.

Can Deflation Ever Be Good?

I think we all agree that 10% inflation is worse than 4% inflation. But if you have 10% inflation one year and 4% inflation the next year, prices are up a little over 14% in that two year period. Prices aren't going up as fast - but they are still going up.

JMintzer 06-10-2024 08:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill14564 (Post 2339659)
It makes things cheaper than they would have been if inflation was still high.

That's like being the "tallest Little Person"... (can't use the "M Word" anymore...)

Sorry, but there is no "silver lining" to this...

Bill14564 06-10-2024 09:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JMintzer (Post 2339724)
That's like being the "tallest Little Person"... (can't use the "M Word" anymore...)

Sorry, but there is no "silver lining" to this...

Wasn't implying there was, simply trying to explain low inflation vs high inflation. But reality is, I prefer one over the other.

Stu from NYC 06-10-2024 09:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill14564 (Post 2339659)
It makes things cheaper than they would have been if inflation was still high.

You sound like a politician

fdpaq0580 06-10-2024 09:38 PM

Inflation has been around since humans first began trading.

Sabella 06-11-2024 04:47 AM

Put the blame where it belongs
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Rich42 (Post 2339097)
Inflation has been raging beyond the typical norms for the last three years. It is significantly affecting virtually all Americans. While businesses need to increase prices to cover legitimate rising costs, too many are just taking advantage of the upward spiral in prices to gouge the consumer. I encountered the epitome of this trend in The Villages yesterday. I have patronized the “Village Car Wash” in the La Plaza Grande shopping center in Spanish Springs for over 10 years. Admittedly I had not been there in quite some time with covid and all, and the last time I was there was a couple of years ago. At that time the price of the cheapest basic car wash (they call it Bronze) was $14.95. Of interest, also note the prices of the various levels of service were prominently posted when you entered their property. To just digress for a moment, I pass their location several times a week and had been noticing the normal long waiting line of cars—regardless of time of year or time of day—has been absent. The place has always appeared to be a gold mine! Well, not so for the last few months. I don’t know exactly when they raised their prices, but the basic Bronze wash (again the cheapest option) was $34! I only found this out when I went inside to pay because their prices were no longer publicly posted. That is an increase from the relatively recent price of 127%!!! No way have their costs gone up anywhere near that. I now understand why there are no longer any lines of people waiting to get their cars washed, and I will certainly no longer be a customer. That is pure greed that should not be supported by the community.

Don’t blame the owner of this business blame the people that patronize it mostly the villages. The reason why most of us senior citizens in the villages are getting totally ripped off when it comes to price not only in local businesses, but in services we have done on at our house is BECAUSE most people will pay the rip off excessive price.

golfing eagles 06-11-2024 04:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sabella (Post 2339763)
Don’t blame the owner of this business blame the people that patronize it mostly the villages. The reason why most of us senior citizens in the villages are getting totally ripped off when it comes to price not only in local businesses, but in services we have done on at our house is BECAUSE most people will pay the rip off excessive price.

So, your position is that inflation is a problem confined to The Villages, or senior communities in general??????

jcreason5616 06-11-2024 04:56 AM

Made a good pount
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Philipd411 (Post 2339172)
So why did they just become greedy? According to your train of thought, they could have raised their prices years ago to $34 and been greedy back then. Their cost has gone up, less people are shopping there. It not greed but business.

I agree that some/many business are taking advantage of the inflation headlines to justify the “greedy” increase in prices that would under other circumstances appear outrageous, but some go way too far.

nn0wheremann 06-11-2024 05:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rich42 (Post 2339097)
Inflation has been raging beyond the typical norms for the last three years. It is significantly affecting virtually all Americans. While businesses need to increase prices to cover legitimate rising costs, too many are just taking advantage of the upward spiral in prices to gouge the consumer. I encountered the epitome of this trend in The Villages yesterday. I have patronized the “Village Car Wash” in the La Plaza Grande shopping center in Spanish Springs for over 10 years. Admittedly I had not been there in quite some time with covid and all, and the last time I was there was a couple of years ago. At that time the price of the cheapest basic car wash (they call it Bronze) was $14.95. Of interest, also note the prices of the various levels of service were prominently posted when you entered their property. To just digress for a moment, I pass their location several times a week and had been noticing the normal long waiting line of cars—regardless of time of year or time of day—has been absent. The place has always appeared to be a gold mine! Well, not so for the last few months. I don’t know exactly when they raised their prices, but the basic Bronze wash (again the cheapest option) was $34! I only found this out when I went inside to pay because their prices were no longer publicly posted. That is an increase from the relatively recent price of 127%!!! No way have their costs gone up anywhere near that. I now understand why there are no longer any lines of people waiting to get their cars washed, and I will certainly no longer be a customer. That is pure greed that should not be supported by the community.

What do you expect when the cheap labor has been run out of the state?

MikeVillages 06-11-2024 06:10 AM

:cus: Don't forget to vote.

Marmaduke 06-11-2024 06:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by retiredguy123 (Post 2339249)
I have a different take on this topic. A business has the right to charge whatever they want for their product or service. That is capitalism. Price gouging only occurs when a business is taking advantage of people as a result of a special situation where the customer has no other choice but to pay an excessively high price for an essential product. Washing a car is not a special situation where price gouging applies. If you don't want to pay $34 for a car wash, then go somewhere else. But, it is not price gouging. The business has no obligation to charge based on their costs.

I agree with you 100%. Love American Capitalism and Free Enterprise. However, I can always tell when business owners know their target market and have their finger on the pulse.

If I rolled up to a car wash gate and learned of the New Unposted $$$ Price, I would wish them luck and pull away, but not before stating that I was ONCE a Loyal and Valuable customer and ask them how they feel about losing me.
Unfortunately, the worker would shrugg and NEVER tell the owner.
The Morale of my story is that I wouldn't REALLY say a word, I'd just roll down to 466a where there are 3 NEW , competitive car wash sites within a mile of one another and check their rates since I'm down there frequently.

ithos 06-11-2024 06:41 AM

Eventually those automatic brush car washes will strip away your clear coat and the paint. I found out the hard way. $500 to repair. Recommend do not use unless the vehicle isn't worth that much.

The brushless are not much better:

Quote:

However, even touch-free car washes can damage a vehicle's clear coat and paint coat. Not only do these touch-free washes use aggressive acids to clean. Over time, overly acidic cleansers can deteriorate your car's protective coatings.Brushless car washes also utilize high-pressure hoses.
403 Forbidden

hypart 06-11-2024 06:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wilharm (Post 2339416)
The government does not include food or gasoline in the CPI. So if you don't eat or drive you have nothing to worry about.

The CPI does include food and energy. You are referring to CPI-U for All Items Less Food and Energy. This index is closely watched by many economic analysts and policymakers under the belief that food and energy prices are volatile and are subject to price shocks that cannot be damped through monetary policy.

Marine1974 06-11-2024 06:53 AM

$15 an hour is not a living wage due to poorly run economy and unfit leader , that some people voted for this and now we all have to suffer higher prices.

Marine1974 06-11-2024 06:58 AM

You hit the nail on the head . We have a leader clearly unfit to run our country and people who voted for this are in denial of what a bad choice they made so they call it price gouging not inflation .

retiredguy123 06-11-2024 06:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hypart (Post 2339794)
The CPI does include food and energy. You are referring to CPI-U for All Items Less Food and Energy. This index is closely watched by many economic analysts and policymakers under the belief that food and energy prices are volatile and are subject to price shocks that cannot be damped through monetary policy.

I Googled it and here is what I got. Sounds like gobblegook to me.

"CPI and CPI-U are both measures of consumer price inflation, but they differ in their coverage and methodology. CPI-U stands for Consumer Price Index for All Urban Consumers and covers 93% of the U.S. population. CPI stands for Consumer Price Index and can refer to either CPI-W or C-CPI-U. CPI-W is a subset of CPI-U that covers urban wage earners and clerical workers, and is used for Social Security cost-of-living adjustments. C-CPI-U is a chained price index that varies its expenditure weights each month and results in lower inflation estimates than CPI-U."

Why don't they spell it out in English?

hypart 06-11-2024 07:05 AM

There are thousands of CPI indexes. People from different sectors of the economy use different indexes.

You can choose your favorite :)

Velvet 06-11-2024 07:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hypart (Post 2339805)
There are thousands of CPI indexes. People from different sectors of the economy use different indexes.

You can choose your favorite :)

Yes, it’s just a matter of which particular things they put into a basket to measure. Eg. Do you leave housing cost in or out of your measurement? To an extent, like statistics, you can choose the outcome by manipulating the input.

opinionist 06-11-2024 07:16 AM

"There are many, many economic reasons why deflation is avoided at all costs."

All those reasons are a cheap excuse for the government to print money to pay the bills.
The government is printing money at a rate of 1 trillion dollars every 100 days.
We have gone over the fiscal cliff and we are accelerating to a global financial system collapse.
The end result is needing a wheelbarrow of cash to buy a loaf of bread.

Cliff Fr 06-11-2024 07:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by huge-pigeons (Post 2339369)
The OP doesn’t understand inflation nor the true cost of running a business. In 3 years, everything is way up in cost. The cost to hire people with no experience or the cost to hire people for a menial job, is way up, the cost of water, electricity, insurance, and rent, have gone up. It’s not greed, it’s the current situation.
The people that really feel it are people on a fixed income.

Another big factor in food costs is the Russia/Ukraine war. The cost of fertilizer has increased substantially because of that conflict. Also remember that when the value of the dollar decreases 20% a company's profit also decreases by 20%. Then there's fuel cost too. Publix is a high class store and if you compare prices they are often not much higher than a store like Walmart. If you shop the Bogos at Publix they can be cheaper

Girlcopper 06-11-2024 07:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rich42 (Post 2339097)
Inflation has been raging beyond the typical norms for the last three years. It is significantly affecting virtually all Americans. While businesses need to increase prices to cover legitimate rising costs, too many are just taking advantage of the upward spiral in prices to gouge the consumer. I encountered the epitome of this trend in The Villages yesterday. I have patronized the “Village Car Wash” in the La Plaza Grande shopping center in Spanish Springs for over 10 years. Admittedly I had not been there in quite some time with covid and all, and the last time I was there was a couple of years ago. At that time the price of the cheapest basic car wash (they call it Bronze) was $14.95. Of interest, also note the prices of the various levels of service were prominently posted when you entered their property. To just digress for a moment, I pass their location several times a week and had been noticing the normal long waiting line of cars—regardless of time of year or time of day—has been absent. The place has always appeared to be a gold mine! Well, not so for the last few months. I don’t know exactly when they raised their prices, but the basic Bronze wash (again the cheapest option) was $34! I only found this out when I went inside to pay because their prices were no longer publicly posted. That is an increase from the relatively recent price of 127%!!! No way have their costs gone up anywhere near that. I now understand why there are no longer any lines of people waiting to get their cars washed, and I will certainly no longer be a customer. That is pure greed that should not be supported by the community.

Thats about an average price and yes, its obvious you haven’t been to a car wash lately. Only 2 choices…..pay the price or wash it yourself. You won’t find much cheaper costs

CoachKandSportsguy 06-11-2024 07:21 AM

silly people about deflation. .

first, Switzerland has a completely different economic/social agreement than the US. Really the two are opposite, as described by a very smart electrical engineering marketing director friend who moved to Switzerland for work. . And since the US is a consumer based economy, let's focus on where we live versus an economy where we don't live. .. .

With a consumer based economy, if prices are declining and one wants to buy an item, why would you buy it today when the price will be less tomorrow? Come tomorrow, the same dilemma exists, why buy today when tomorrow will be cheaper?

When that happens, commerce starts to grind to a halt, there are surpluses everywhere and few are willing to buy, while most are waiting for tomorrow's final price decrease. . which is why scarcity is a successful business strategy, and a coffee shop on every street corner is not a profitable strategy. What's good for the consumer is not good for the company, and what's good for a company is not good for the consumer. . . but since everyone derives their consumer income from a company or a job. . .

Key point to remember is:
inflation favors debt holders, paying off the debt with cheaper money.
deflation favors the cash holder, as cash becomes more valuable relative to goods and debt becomes harder to repay.

The US hasn't experienced real economic deflation since the 1930's, so for most people, the concept is totally mind boggling.
You had your chance to listen to the stories from your parents and grandparents, if you were old enough to understand them and ask about them. . .

My grandfather was an oil burner repair man. In the depression, they would scavenge burned out homes for furnace replacement parts to keep their furnace working. . . totally foreign concept eh? location: Milton, MA, a Boston suburb

source: my Masters' degree economic paper about the causes of the 1930's depression and stories from dad and mom

oneclickplus 06-11-2024 07:21 AM

This isn't about car washes. It truly amazes me that the vast majority of people (especially the newly uneducated pro-Hamas college graduates) don't understand the cause of inflation.

It is very simply defined as "too many dollars chasing too few goods". So, there are two parameters there: the # of dollars and the quantity of goods.

The government is "printing" dollars at a phenomenal rate. This is the direct result government spending more $$ than it takes in. At today's debt levels, we are past the point of no return. Mathematically speaking, it can no longer be fixed. Debt and money printing will continue until the USD is equivalent to the Zimbabwe dollar in buying power. Yes, it will be completely destroyed. Governments around the world are slowly diminishing the purchase of (and even selling) US treasuries. Google "BRICS" if you are unaware. With no one left to buy our debt at low interest rates, the end will come quickly.

On the other side of the coin, with regard to specific products / commodities (oil, gas, etc), the price goes up (seen as inflation) when supply is constrained (artificially or not). Many products in the USA have been inexpensive because they have been plentiful ... such as clean water. Watch what happens out west and elsewhere as water demand outpaces supply for farming and human needs. This is going to get ugly.

Then you have government interference on the other side such as the $20 min wage for fast food workers in CA. I'm sure most of you have read what kind of havoc that is wreaking on businesses there with many closing up shop. Food delivery drivers are virtually out of business because ... surprise surprise ... people don't find it reasonable to pay $30 to have a meal delivered. And they're not willing to pay $18 for a Big Mac, fries and a Coke.

Of course, the primary driver of this insanity is the government "printing" of dollars mentioned already. More dollars chasing the same things (food, housing, gas, etc) forces prices up which in turn creates the push for higher wages.

This cycle can never be broken unless / until the feds have a completely balanced budget with no deficits whatsoever; spend only what is taken in in taxes. Since we know that is not going to happen, the borrowing will continue simply because the debt service will continue to grow. That's the monkey on our backs ... $1 trillion dollars of tax revenue is now required to pay the interest on the $35 trillion of debt. This huge interest payment crowds out other budget priorities which, in turn, provokes even more borrowing to maintain the status quo. And the debt and interest payments grow even more. Anyone who doesn't see this coming was sleeping in math class. The system will eventually collapse in on itself (Zimbabwe revisited).

I'll leave you with this thought: if your savings, your retirement, your kids' college fund, your future is denominated in US dollars, you are one of the pigs that will be led to the slaughter. 2028 at the latest and, to emphasize that this is NOT a political post, it will happen no matter who is elected president or which party controls either chamber of congress. The USA can not side step this future. It is a certainty. It could happen even sooner if the USA is hit with a black swan event.

Cuervo 06-11-2024 08:05 AM

If you truly want to curb inflation there are two ways to achieve this.
Flood the market with products to the point where the competition has to reduce their prices just to stay in business or reduce the ever-growing population.

HORNET 06-11-2024 08:13 AM

Remember November

Stu from NYC 06-11-2024 08:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CoachKandSportsguy (Post 2339818)
silly people about deflation. .

first, Switzerland has a completely different economic/social agreement than the US. Really the two are opposite, as described by a very smart electrical engineering marketing director friend who moved to Switzerland for work. . And since the US is a consumer based economy, let's focus on where we live versus an economy where we don't live. .. .

With a consumer based economy, if prices are declining and one wants to buy an item, why would you buy it today when the price will be less tomorrow? Come tomorrow, the same dilemma exists, why buy today when tomorrow will be cheaper?

When that happens, commerce starts to grind to a halt, there are surpluses everywhere and few are willing to buy, while most are waiting for tomorrow's final price decrease. . which is why scarcity is a successful business strategy, and a coffee shop on every street corner is not a profitable strategy. What's good for the consumer is not good for the company, and what's good for a company is not good for the consumer. . . but since everyone derives their consumer income from a company or a job. . .

Key point to remember is:
inflation favors debt holders, paying off the debt with cheaper money.
deflation favors the cash holder, as cash becomes more valuable relative to goods and debt becomes harder to repay.

The US hasn't experienced real economic deflation since the 1930's, so for most people, the concept is totally mind boggling.
You had your chance to listen to the stories from your parents and grandparents, if you were old enough to understand them and ask about them. . .

My grandfather was an oil burner repair man. In the depression, they would scavenge burned out homes for furnace replacement parts to keep their furnace working. . . totally foreign concept eh? location: Milton, MA, a Boston suburb

source: my Masters' degree economic paper about the causes of the 1930's depression and stories from dad and mom

Good analysis

Stu from NYC 06-11-2024 08:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cuervo (Post 2339840)
If you truly want to curb inflation there are two ways to achieve this.
Flood the market with products to the point where the competition has to reduce their prices just to stay in business or reduce the ever-growing population.

Or raise interest rates and curb govt spending.

tophcfa 06-11-2024 08:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rainger99 (Post 2339617)
I was in a bakery two years and took this photograph. It explains why prices have gone up. And for those who claim that inflation is down since then, that is wrong. Inflation has not gone down. Prices just aren't going up as fast as they were back then.

Dam, and that sign doesn’t even have anything healthy listed on it. Imagine if it showed the prices of lean protein such as fish or chicken tenderloins, nuts, high fiber grains, fruit, and vegetables?

Nancy@Pinellas 06-11-2024 09:21 AM

The new car wash on 466A will charge you $25 a month for as many times as you’d like to go.

Diverdave 06-11-2024 09:35 AM

Not the fault of the business
 
As much as I would like to blame all the higher prices on "Greed", in fact it isn't entirely true, or even mostly true.

Due to runaway inflation, caused buy insane federal spending the value of your dollar has been seriously reduced.

Once we went off the "Gold Standard" the value of the US dollar was based on the value of the US economy. Not actually a bad idea, unless you start printing money faster than the economy grows. Whenever there is a federal budget deficit that means that the "slice of the pie" represented by a single dollar just got a little smaller. Your savings are worth less and your take home pay will not buy what it would last year.

We are a very equity seeking and compassionate country, which is also not a bad thing, I blame all the Disney movies that I grew up watching. I want everyone to be well fed, well educated, and happy. Again, none of these things is fundamentally a bad thing, but they make me vulnerable to being scammed.

In 2024 the government will spend $1,500,000,000,000 more than they earn, or $4,300 for every man, woman and child in the US. Inflation is how we each pay for that overspending.

Every business must make a profit or go out of business. When wages, taxes and the cost of your operation go up you can shrink your profits, lower your costs by reducing the quality of your product, raise your prices or go out of business.
Many small businesses have done all four, in that order.

Rainger99 06-11-2024 09:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nancy@Pinellas (Post 2339870)
The new car wash on 466A will charge you $25 a month for as many times as you’d like to go.

Wow! Is that like a grand opening special for the first month?

The original post said the cheapest car wash was $34! I think that was for a single wash. Definitely worth the drive down south to save money.


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