[CoachKandSportsguy]

Originally Posted by jbartle1

Bottom-line, how does this affect PATIENTS!

Uncertainty of getting paid may convince doctors / physicians leaving, and not getting replaced because of the penalty overhang.

New healthcare company may start taking medicare and get overwhelmed with local nonTV patients, crowding out villagers, reducing physician availability.


The CMS penalties may not get discharged through bankruptcy, and TVH just goes belly up financially. . without a buyer, thereby eliminating physician coverage.

Not sure of the probabilities of any of these potential outcomes, but the threat to TV patients, is that there will be not enough / adequate medical services for the entire population of retired / aging population. .

monopsony is never a good idea, as it raises the risk to the entire community if and when the monopsonistic employer leaves or go bankrupt without a replacement or increased competition. .

good luck to us in TV!

[BrianL99]

Originally Posted by CoachKandSportsguy

The CMS penalties may not get discharged through bankruptcy, and TVH just goes belly up financially. . without a buyer, thereby eliminating physician coverage.

good luck to us in TV!

Generally, Bankruptcy sales are "asset sales", not the sale of a corporation. I'm far from an expert on Bankruptcy, but every business we've bought out of bankruptcy, were asset sales.

In this case, the anticipated "sale" came before the Bankruptcy, which may have influenced the Bankruptcy court, to continue down that road as a corporate sale ...which generally includes assets & liabilities.

It seems if the proposed sale were to transform into an asset sale, a lot of the issues go away. The liabilities don't attach to the sale and the proceeds are held by the Bankruptcy Judge, to be used as he determines.

As TV Health apparently has limited assets (essentially, only its patient base), it seems this would be a logical way to go.

[tophcfa]

Originally Posted by BrianL99

Generally, Bankruptcy sales are "asset sales", not the sale of a corporation. I'm far from an expert on Bankruptcy, but every business we've bought out of bankruptcy, were asset sales.

In this case, the anticipated "sale" came before the Bankruptcy, which may have influenced the Bankruptcy court, to continue down that road as a corporate sale ...which generally includes assets & liabilities.

It seems if the proposed sale were to transform into an asset sale, a lot of the issues go away. The liabilities don't attach to the sale and the proceeds are held by the Bankruptcy Judge, to be used as he determines.

As TV Health apparently has limited assets (essentially, only its patient base), it seems this would be a logical way to go.

The bankruptcy judge is in a difficult predicament in this particular case. On one hand, she doesn’t want to tank the sale and potentially leave 55k seniors up the creek without health care. On the other hand, they have an obligation to seriously consider the well thought out objections filed by the likes of the U.S. Government, Florida Blue, United Health Care, and other creditors. To further complicate matters, this case could set an important precedent for other high profile Medicare over billing cases in the future. Hopefully, the court can find a way to strike a delicate balance between the interests of the various parties involved, without significant collateral damage to the many innocent parties that could be effected by the resolution of this case. Stay tuned.

[Caymus]

How does the new owner ensure that they will not be responsible for any liabilities?

[dewilson58]

Originally Posted by Caymus

How does the new owner ensure that they will not be responsible for any liabilities?

Purchase assets, not stock.

[golfing eagles]

Originally Posted by jbartle1

Bottom-line, how does this affect PATIENTS!

We won't know until the dust finally settles. But I do have a concern for patient access

It's hard enough to attract physicians to work here. The only draw for younger physicians is the excellent Charter schools, or perhaps a parent that lives here. The rest are somewhat older doctors near the end of their career. And this whole issue looks like it is shaping up to be a war of picayune documentation criteria.

The documentation requirements are ridiculous to start with, overly complicated and somewhat vague. If CMS starts looking for crossed T's and dotted I's, it will drive the older docs into retirement---nobody wants to put up with that crap. The younger physicians might gravitate towards non-participation in the Medicare program completely, opting for concierge medicine instead. This will result in less physician services for a growing, elderly population. There are already many practices not accepting new patients and long waits to get appointments. Then, of course, it's the better physicians that fill up fast, leaving the "B" players as the only option. And btw, uninformed social media attacks just fuel the problem. Nobody shouting "fraud" or "crooks" is helping the problem. Let's see what happens tomorrow, but that probably won't be the end of this. Remember, CMS is not interested in your health---it's a bureaucracy run by bureaucrats, all with the ambition of making a name for themselves so they can become a bigger fish in the bureaucratic pond.

[Caymus]

Originally Posted by dewilson58

Purchase assets, not stock.

There are probably multiple non bankruptcy "normal" lawsuits {ie malpractice, slips/falls etc) against Village Health. Who "owns' them? Can the bankruptcy judge dismiss those and any pending suits?

[phillygirl]

I’ve thought they were related from the beginning. Developers are unloading what they can.

[golfing eagles]

Originally Posted by phillygirl

I’ve thought they were related from the beginning. Developers are unloading what they can.

Are they??? “Unloading what they can”??? Thank you for providing the “facts” learned from sitting in on the Morse family strategy meetings. Looking forward to the next tidbit 😂😂😂

[BrianL99]

Originally Posted by BrianL99

Generally, Bankruptcy sales are "asset sales", not the sale of a corporation.
...
It seems if the proposed sale were to transform into an asset sale, a lot of the issues go away. The liabilities don't attach to the sale and the proceeds are held by the Bankruptcy Judge, to be used as he determines.

As TV Health apparently has limited assets (essentially, only its patient base), it seems this would be a logical way to go.

Originally Posted by Caymus

There are probably multiple non bankruptcy "normal" lawsuits {ie malpractice, slips/falls etc) against Village Health. Who "owns' them? Can the bankruptcy judge dismiss those and any pending suits?

There was another medical malpractice suit agains TVH, mentioned in today's newspaper.
No, a Bankruptcy judge cannot simply dismiss pending lawsuits, he can however, manage the Bankruptcy to address pending actions.

[spinner1001]

Originally Posted by Caymus

There are probably multiple non bankruptcy "normal" lawsuits {ie malpractice, slips/falls etc) against Village Health. Who "owns' them? Can the bankruptcy judge dismiss those and any pending suits?

For people with claims against the TVH legal entity for actions BEFORE the initial bankruptcy filing, those people have had an opportunity to file a claim with the bankruptcy court. If those people failed to file a claim, the bankruptcy court will effectively dismiss those actual and potential claims when the bankruptcy plan is confirmed.

A plaintiff’s lawyer for a pending lawsuit against the bankrupt TVH entity needs to file a claim with the bankruptcy court in a timely manner. If not, his/her bad.

Once the bankruptcy judge confirms the bankruptcy plan and ends the bankruptcy case, (practically speaking) whatever is not in the plan for actions BEFORE the bankruptcy filling are out of luck.

In short, fail to file a claim with the bankruptcy court in a timely manner for an action BEFORE the bankruptcy filing, you’re bad. You missed your opportunity.

And there are exceptions which is why lawyers get paid.

For existing lawsuits, there may be no assets left in the pre-bankruptcy entity to collect $$ from a successful judgment. Insured losses are a completely different story.

[kingofbeer]

Originally Posted by CoachKandSportsguy

Uncertainty of getting paid may convince doctors / physicians leaving, and not getting replaced because of the penalty overhang.

New healthcare company may start taking medicare and get overwhelmed with local nonTV patients, crowding out villagers, reducing physician availability.


The CMS penalties may not get discharged through bankruptcy, and TVH just goes belly up financially. . without a buyer, thereby eliminating physician coverage.

Not sure of the probabilities of any of these potential outcomes, but the threat to TV patients, is that there will be not enough / adequate medical services for the entire population of retired / aging population. .

monopsony is never a good idea, as it raises the risk to the entire community if and when the monopsonistic employer leaves or go bankrupt without a replacement or increased competition. .

good luck to us in TV!

You do not have to be a Villages resident to join Villages Health. This is a misconception.

[kingofbeer]

Originally Posted by tophcfa

The bankruptcy judge is in a difficult predicament in this particular case. On one hand, she doesn’t want to tank the sale and potentially leave 55k seniors up the creek without health care. On the other hand, they have an obligation to seriously consider the well thought out objections filed by the likes of the U.S. Government, Florida Blue, United Health Care, and other creditors. To further complicate matters, this case could set an important precedent for other high profile Medicare over billing cases in the future. Hopefully, the court can find a way to strike a delicate balance between the interests of the various parties involved, without significant collateral damage to the many innocent parties that could be effected by the resolution of this case. Stay tuned.

I do not know what the bankruptcy judge's responsibility is. My understanding is that he is working on behalf of the creditors not the patients.

[Joecooool418]

Originally Posted by Normal

Today’s government is all about clawing back funds.

Not anymore. All it takes is the right political contribution, and this all goes away......

[BrianL99]

Originally Posted by spinner1001

For people with claims against the TVH legal entity for actions BEFORE the initial bankruptcy filing, those people have had an opportunity to file a claim with the bankruptcy court. If those people failed to file a claim, the bankruptcy court will effectively dismiss those actual and potential claims when the bankruptcy plan is confirmed.

A plaintiff’s lawyer for a pending lawsuit against the bankrupt TVH entity needs to file a claim with the bankruptcy court in a timely manner. If not, his/her bad.

Once the bankruptcy judge confirms the bankruptcy plan and ends the bankruptcy case, (practically speaking) whatever is not in the plan for actions BEFORE the bankruptcy filling are out of luck.

In short, fail to file a claim with the bankruptcy court in a timely manner for an action BEFORE the bankruptcy filing, you’re bad. You missed your opportunity.

And there are exceptions which is why lawyers get paid.

For existing lawsuits, there may be no assets left in the pre-bankruptcy entity to collect $$ from a successful judgment. Insured losses are a completely different story.

From my experience, a Debtor is obligated to list all their liabilities and obligations, or they're not discharged by the Bankruptcy.

Generally, the purpose of Creditor filing, is to gain standing to participate in the process. You do not have to do anything or file anything, to be Creditor in a Bankruptcy.

If they rules have changed in the last couple of years, I'd love to see some legitimate evidence of that.