Seem more like succumbing to extortion to me.

Just to clear the air, the felony charge is far from phony baloney. Or was "phone" baloney a pun? The charge against those two was about as simple as it gets. Both were sworn in. Both swore to tell the truth. Both lied to direct, simple questions. Lying under oath is Perjury...a felony. Neither of those former commissioners would be in their present predicament had they not made the conscious decision to lie under oath.

Now, prison? Highly unlikely. One took a deal, and will testify against the other. He will probably plead guilty to a lesser charge and quietly ride off into the sunset. The other will likely eat a felony conviction, but it is doubtful he will serve any real jail time.

Finally, someone makes a lucid, unbiased observation.

:BigApplause::BigApplause::BigApplause:

No worries, when people move into the apartments just protest outside their homes like the libs.

Isn't that how it works now, if you don't like something hold mostly peaceful protests.

It sure does not pass the smell test.

The developers idea of progress is not necessarily the same as people who live near there.

I dont have a problem with apartments what i do have a problem with is taking prime parking spaces.

An area may be zoned for a particular use. When that use or business is no longer there, an entity may request a zone change because they want to use the space differently. This allows the county over sight as to how vacant spaces are used. I used to be on a planning board and, although I do not know the specific rules of this particular county, asking for a zoning change is not unusual, nor are the people making the decisions”dirty.” This application seems sensible to me, all except the one about reserving street space for parking. Perhaps this overreach is a bargaining chip on the developer's part as in, “okay, I will give up the street parking if you approve this.”

Good points but does anyone really think they will stop at 7? This is only the beginning

So what? Unless you want to invest in commercial space in SS, should you (and I mean the proverbial you, not YOU personally) have a say in how someone else (The Developer, who develops) uses their capital?

Spanish Springs, like the other squares, is NOT an amenity.

The Lofts have apparently been a success and the people living there aren't causing any problems for homeowners. Businesses make decisions on products and services. That's why there is a new BJ's club just down the road from Sam's Club. DId the area really NEED a new buying club, or do choices make people's lives better?

Are 14 parking spaces really going to be the demise of Spanish Springs?

If more people supported the businesses that are there, there wouldn't be enough vacant space to build apartments.

And as someone from NYC, this can't be your first exposure to mixed-use building. Look around next time you go back north.

If you do this in Florida...you can be arrested. New law just this week.

Agree, except that I would add I have a very big problem with giving out additional amenity rights in a mature area with already overused amenities. However, that’s not on the Lady Lake officials, that’s where the AAC seriously dropped the ball.

Taxes is absolutely a town's skin. The Square is the main attraction to this part of Lady Lake, one of the main reasons people choose to live here, as opposed to (for instance) Water Oak or Del Webb. The square also has several health care offices. If those are all boarded up, the paid entertainers will have one less place to play, the employees will have to find other jobs possibly further from home, which might convince them to simply move closer to their new jobs. There would be fewer people moving in, because there's no "anchor" to attract them to this location as opposed to any other location.

Fewer people living here, fewer businesses being here, equals fewer taxes. The Developer is already paying tax on that building, there will be no more property taxes coming from tenants renting the apartments. So the town might have 14 more residents, but 0 more taxes paid.

That's skin.

7 or 14 apts is not the finale. This is just the tip of the iceberg. What would a couple of hundred apts mean for SS?

BTW our village sales rep did call the squares an amenity.

It is amazing to me that when the developer loses some thing they always manage to finesse their way around it and get what they want.

No problems with finesse, that’s how it’s supposed to work. The problem is that when finesse doesn’t work, the next step is bullying.

Because Spanish Springs is governed by Lady Lake. It is served by the LL police and fire departments and subject to LL zoning and other town regulations.

Filing a criminal complaint against two new Sumter County commissioners that will probably land them in the state prison isn’t exactly a “finesse” move. That’s more brutal politics than I’ve ever seen.

Yes, Spanish Springs is not an amenity, but LSL and Brownwood squares are owned by a CDD and all the CDD's south of 466 pay for the maintenance like the windmill.

The Lofts of Brownwood were not that much of a success or the developer would not have cancelled plans for building the Lofts of Richmond.

14 Parking spots on the square is problematic because the streets are public. To those who say the streets are owned by the developer then why would he need permission from LL to reserve them?

I've posted this before and I'll do it again. Community development agencies have done a lot or research into revitalizing down towns in cities and have found that to bring life back to downtown areas you need residents living there. I saw that happen in Nashville, TN when I was working downtown. A developer built a high rise apartment building right on the edge of downtown. Prior to this the majority of businesses there were restaurants and a few small shops that catered to the office workers with a lot of boarded up buildings. After the apartment building was built and occupied, a grocery store opened just a couple block from the apartments. Other businesses opened to cater to the apartment residents. In the downtown entertainment area new businesses opened and existing ones expanded their operations. In the last 8 or so years a lot of new apartment and condo buildings have been built and prior to the covid debacle the downtown scene in Nashville was booming. Without those apartment residents downtown, Nashville would still be a ghost town after 6:00 PM. If you haven't figured it out yet, maybe apartments will revitalize and save SS.

Question for all the community development experts, what are your ideas for the improvement of SS? Please don't even mention Katie Belles, that is a dead horse that has been beaten into a bloody pulp that will not be like the Phoenix and rise from the ashes. It was a failed business plan, get over it.

The office spaces on the second floor of these buildings are setting vacant and producing no revenue yet the owner has to pay property taxes and maintenance. What successful business allows potential revenue generating property to set idle and be a drain on corporate revenue? I'll help out here for those that don't have critical thinking skills, none that are operating in the black.

What proof is there SS downtown needs revitalization ? Let's take a good look around. Every postage stamp of vacant land around SS is being bought up and new businesses being built at breakneck speed. Highways being widened. New developments going up - literally up. Land around SS is so scarce they need to build high rises.
Another hypothesis might be the developer is charging beyond what a Mom and Pop business can afford to pay for rent and MOM and POP still be profitable. Don't forget their model is to minimize most larger corporations/franchises on their domain. No lack of people here from 5 - 9 pm. Lack of two hour happy hours, lack of hard libation for HH, Lack of good restaurants and an abundance of businesses that are not much more than novelty shops.

And the answer is - 7 apartments will save SS from doomsday.

Reviatization from what ? A self inflicted wound. - Bunch of BS.

Can't please everyone.
They are pleasing most.
:clap2::clap2:

Three is a market price for everything. When real estate is vacant for a long period of time it tells me that they are charging more than the market will pay and if they want to rent out the space should lower their asking price.

They are good developers. Only bad business people sit on losing assets without trying something better

The negative nellies don't care about logic.
They jus "don't like it" and have no logical reason to oppose.

Concerned about parking spaces???......pretty small minded.
This will lead to hundreds of apartments???.......the NN's will be dead by then.
We were promised??.......:1rotfl::1rotfl:

Your first paragraph is about areas outside of Spanish Springs. Very little building occurring in Spanish Springs.
Your opinion and hypothesis is just that - Yours, and you are entitled to it. But the Developer is entitled to their opinion. If they choose to repurpose facilities like they did with the old sales facility (MVP, Restaurant, Car rental), good for them.
How does 7 apartments hurt anything?

The sky is falling.

It's the end of the Square.

I was promised it would never happen.

:icon_wink:

I never said SS was failing and needed re-vitalizing, just responding to those who claim it is failing and providing information community development experts has found to work.

Think about your statement that the developer charges too much rent. How does any successful business think that is better to lose revenue because their ego tells them the property should rent for more than the market will bear? Does that make any sense? Has the Morse family not been successful?

It probably wasn't a smart idea to build office/retain space on a second floor but even the best developers make errors. I'll go back to my experiences working in downtown Nashville. There is an area called the Arcade, a restaurant/shopping area that is roofed over for weather protection and has a second floor. Most of the space on the second floor was vacant because people didn't want to wait for the elevator or use the stairs.

As far as 14 parking spaces being taken by apartment residents, that is like a 5 gallon bucket of water taken out of one of the retention ponds. As I stated earlier there are plenty of parking spaces within a short walk of the square. Many people could benefit from the exercise.

14 parking spots on a public street located next to the square. That is a big difference.

Never once have I seen a statement from the developers that they were operating SS in the red. The only source I've heard that statement from is the sheeples who for the most part are still in the new home honeymoon period (and just for grins never stepped foot into the original Katie Belle's - Harold's flagship and his mother's namesake). Before you jump to the next comeback what I did not say is "the developers don't have a right to go onto other ventures that will produce higher profit margins". However those ventures are limited to being within the law which includes zoning. I have no issue with the developer requesting "legally" a variance. The declaration of it's their property and they can do as they wish is a total misnomer and neither can anyone of us do as we wish with our properties. I am not saying bibery, blackmail, backroom deals are taking place but something smells fishy to me about the sequence of events that have unfolded.

All I ask is for my representatives (public and private) to stop telling me the yellow liquid on my sneakers is simply a little bit of rain. I really don't care if the developer puts up 7 apartments. Just stop feeding me BS.

What the developer wants the developer finds a way to get.

///

Someone asked what we think should happen, to "revitalize" Spanish Springs Town Square.

As the newish resident living in the oldest section of the Villages, who's lived in metropolitan areas, the suburbs of New England, and been to every contiguous state in the country, in urban, rural, suburban, and mountainous regions, who has worked for a town engineer and worked on zoning restrictions and issued zoning permits, this is what I think should be done:

(The same as what I proposed previously but here it is again):

The MVP gym moved to the Rialto theatre, with shops in the front of it dedicated to fresh, healthy food options - salads, simple sandwiches made with home-made breads and organic ingredients, plenty of raw foods that don't require cooking, a few comfort dessert options (such as fresh apple pie, or assorted tortes or strawberry topped shortbread, for example). Another shop within the Rialto-converted-MVP building could cater to exercise clothing and accessories - leggings, gym tops and shorts, yoga mats and yoga shoes, fitbits, etc.

Then take the MVP building and turn it into either condos or apartments, or a mixture of both, with amenities taking up the entire first floor. A small pool can be built where the circular drive currently is, out back, and the pool and first-floor amenities can then be considered a Town Square Rec Center. The parking area behind that building could be gated, so that residents have assigned parking off the street and away from easy access to theft.

Once that building has been renovated and vacancies filled, THEN add that 7 apartments over the old Katie Belle's building. And behind that building, section off an area for assigned resident parking, and build a modest-sized carport for resident golf carts. They can have access to the amenities in the MVP building as well.

This thread gets funnier and funnier.

I agree. Writing a business plan for the developer! LOL

Writing a business plan with no business experience. :1rotfl::1rotfl:

A whole bunch of new laws in this Free state.

I am trying very hard to get my jaw off the floor.

WOW. How much is all of this going to cost you? I assume this is your idea to spend your own dough (for the special bread) to put this plan in motion? At a minimum, you should contact The Villages management and demand a consulting fee. Go Get 'em.

:ohdear:

OH OH I wanna piggyback:
- Add a lazy river for all residents on the 1st floor of the La Raina apartment complex
- Put Katie Belle's back downstairs where it was
- Make upstairs of the new KB's a brothel (the developer can do whatever they want with their property) - highly profitable business. To compensate the old priority golfers for their recent loss offer discounts rates to the new "enhanced members".