Talk of The Villages Florida

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-   -   Lets' be careful----toss up question (https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/villages-florida-general-discussion-73/lets-careful-toss-up-question-35644/)

Sonny39 01-30-2011 08:40 AM

:agree:

laryb 01-30-2011 09:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by memason (Post 326877)
I just don't get it.... I've driven all over TV, in my golf cart and just don't see the issues that are discussed on this forum. Driving a golf cart is no different than driving a car. People do boneheaded things in carts; they do boneheaded things in cars... including me! Doesn't matter if I'm going 19.92543 or 29.93465 in my cart. When I do something stupid, I wave and say "sorry". I normally get a return wave and a smile.

TV is the safest place I have ever lived, in every respect!

So, to answer the question, at what speed should the police ticket golf carts? I don't care about speed, if the cart is driven reasonably; with the flow and not recklessly... the police should have more important issues to address.

Just my opinion and I know it'll be unpopular on here... But, here's my :wave:and "sorry".

I agree. After spending last weekend in TV, I've changed my mind on the speeding cart issue. On 4 separate occasions I was cutoff on roundabouts by speeders, one of which being a younger person in a souped up vehicle. I am not the slowest driver and tend to have a bit of a lead foot, but I always think about what I'm doing before entering the roundabout. I would rather have the police put more of their attention on the roads than on carts. I do recognize a need to control cart speed to a degree, and 23 / 24mph seems reasonable to me. While I think a police presence is a good thing that makes us all feel safer, there is also a limit. I want to relax and enjoy TV, not wonder if someone is watching at every corner. and waiting to punish me for every mistake I may make. I may be wrong, but that's just the way I feel.

NJblue 01-30-2011 09:52 AM

I agree memason - I just don't get the reaction against golf carts or LSVs going faster than 20 mph as long as they are being driven non-aggresively. What is it about someone passing you that makes you resent the other driver? When I am passed it makes me feel good that I am no longer holding the other person up and I am now free to slow down if there is something that attracts my attention.

To the people wanting LSVs banned from cart paths - be careful for what you wish. Do you really want a parade of LSVs cruising up Buena Vista at 25 mph with a line of cars and trucks behind them jockeying for position to get by? I suspect that when you are one of the ones caught in the parade that you would wish that the LSVs were back on the cart paths.

Talk Host 01-30-2011 10:32 AM

A traffic enforcement area becomes a "cash cow" only when there is an abundance of motorists violating the law. The violations come before the cash.

If the IRS found a group of people in a specific area who were evading their taxes and fined them, would that be a cash cow or enforcement of tax laws.

Again, I think it's important to remember that police officers do only what they are told to do by their superiors who are told what to do by the officials that you elect. Can you imaging an office saying to the captain, "No sir I don't agree with giving tickets in The Villages, so I won't be doing that today."

YOU ELECT THE SHERIFF. THE CONSTITUTION PROVIDES THAT THE TOP LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICER IN A COUNTY IS SUBJECT TO THE VOTERS. THERE IS A REASON FOR THAT.

NJblue 01-30-2011 10:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Talk Host (Post 326926)
A traffic enforcement area becomes a "cash cow" only when there is an abundance of motorists violating the law. The violations come before the cash.

If the IRS found a group of people in a specific area who were evading their taxes and fined them, would that be a cash cow or enforcement of tax laws.

Again, I think it's important to remember that police officers do only what they are told to do by their superiors who are told what to do by the officials that you elect. Can you imaging an office saying to the captain, "No sir I don't agree with giving tickets in The Villages, so I won't be doing that today."

YOU ELECT THE SHERIFF. THE CONSTITUTION PROVIDES THAT THE TOP LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICER IN A COUNTY IS SUBJECT TO THE VOTERS. THERE IS A REASON FOR THAT.

What you say in the second part of your post does not refute the notion that fining golf cart owners may be a cash cow. In fact, it makes it more likely. Certainly the police officer has no direct motivation for increasing cash flow into the treasury, but the official who is at the top of the command chain may.

As to the notion that the violations come before the cash, the correct order of thinking should be public safety comes before violation enforcement which comes before cash. When looked at in that order, priority should be given to the violations that most endanger public safety. It would be hard to convince a reasonable thinking person that golf carts whizzing by another golf cart at a speed delta of 3 mph constitutes as much of a threat to public safety as what happens in the roundabouts on a regular basis.

pooh 01-30-2011 10:56 AM

All this discussion about "cash cows" forgets one thing. The law, in Florida, states that golf carts must only have a max speed of under 20mph. It's the law. If it's annoying, then maybe getting the law changed is in order. Honestly, as others have said, if there weren't people speeding, and most probably, lots of them, the law enforcement officials wouldn't have any opportunity to ticket. Slow down, enjoy the scenery. Drive safely, follow the rules of the road, in your cart and in your car. Just the other day, there was a golf cart, not street legal, cruising in the auto lane on Stillwater Trail. We have lots of visitors here at this time of the year, some new residents, some on LSP's, others guests and they might not be aware of some of the "rules of the road" around here. Be alert and stay safe.....and if you have your grandkids with you, please, obey speed and traffic laws, you're setting the example.

Talk Host 01-30-2011 10:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NJblue (Post 326932)

As to the notion that the violations come before the cash, the correct order of thinking should be public safety comes before violation enforcement which comes before cash. .

Who's job is it to decide if the public safety is in jeopardy, the motorist or law enforcement? The laws being made by elected officials who are entrusted with looking after public safety.

In the four years that I was a deputy sheriff, I had about 2 million law breakers tell me they were doing nothing wrong. I'm wondering if I should have said, "Oh, I'm sorry to have bothered you, please be on your way and I'll be more careful the next time."

jlk

cybermuda 01-30-2011 11:16 AM

The point that a lot of slow drivers are missing is that fast drivers clearly have above-average vehicle-handling skills. Sure, it’s foggy out there, the roads are slick, my tires are bald and I have macular degeneration, but none of this should stop me speeding as I am a superior driver.

Similarly, I am an above-average shopper, so I can shop-lift with impunity. I just explain this to the store-detective and he lets me take my loaded cart straight from the shelves to the car park, avoiding that pesky checkout line.

Where’s the harm? Okay, so shoplifting forces stores to put up prices to cover the losses, but that only affects those who pay for their groceries, not me. Likewise, when I write-off my car and have to spend six months in intensive care, that puts up motor and health insurance. But for everyone, not just me.

My souped-up Mustang can do 140 mph – it would be a crime to go down Buena Vista at anything less than 120.

So drive every day as if it is your last – with people like me on the roads, it may well be.

NJblue 01-30-2011 11:50 AM

Quote:

Who's job is it to decide if the public safety is in jeopardy, the motorist or law enforcement? The laws being made by elected officials who are entrusted with looking after public safety.
Perhaps my driving situation is unique, but in the last year the number of close calls that I've had resulting from a golf cart speeding and putting me in danger is zero. I haven't even had a situation that remotely threatened my safety. On the other hand, I can't even begin to count the number of times I have had close calls in the roundabouts. So, in my opinion, if it is the police's job to put enforcement where the most risk is, they are failing in their job miserably.

Also, note that this is not a matter of disputing whether laws are broken - it is a matter of using police enforcement to maximize public safety.

Russ_Boston 01-30-2011 12:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NJblue (Post 326948)
Perhaps my driving situation is unique, but in the last year the number of close calls that I've had resulting from a golf cart speeding and putting me in danger is zero. I haven't even had a situation that remotely threatened my safety. On the other hand, I can't even begin to count the number of times I have had close calls in the roundabouts. So, in my opinion, if it is the police's job to put enforcement where the most risk is, they are failing in their job miserably.

Also, note that this is not a matter of disputing whether laws are broken - it is a matter of using police enforcement to maximize public safety.

In my short time in TV that has been my experience exactly NJ. I've only seen about 3-4 accident sites but they have all been roundabout crashes. Nothing serious fortunately.

I think reasonableness is the key.

pooh 01-30-2011 01:28 PM

A couple of things.....first we just passed by a car, truck bang-up... in a circle. It happened just before we arrived on scene, on our way to the grocery store and as we headed home, the Sumter County Sheriff was now at the scene. It appeared that there was an auto in the right lane, a truck in the left lane and the auto decided it was going to continue around the circle and got hit by the truck that was going to proceed out of the circle, correctly. The auto continuing around the circle, incorrectly was driven by an older adult, and the driver of the truck, considerably younger, was taking care of her. Neither appeared hurt, but one car door is going to need repair or replacement.

We've had golf carts riding along in the golf cart lane on O'Dell, suddenly decide they were going to make a left turn, and proceeded to drive across our lane and the lane going in the other direction, to make that left turn. Why we didn't hit them with our car was a miracle....and why I didn't have a heart attack is also one. I now have additional gray hair, which I don't need, thank you very much, but we all survived. Honestly, if I had been out of the car I would have slapped that cart driver right up side the head.

I'm paying attention to my driving and my surroundings, all others should be doing the same and not leave me responsible for the safety of all other residents and drivers here in TV...too much work for one person.

graciegirl 01-30-2011 02:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pooh (Post 326979)
A couple of things.....first we just passed by a car, truck bang-up... in a circle. It happened just before we arrived on our way to the grocery store and as we headed home, the Sumter County Sheriff was now at the scene. It appeared that there was an auto in the right lane, a truck in the left lane and the auto decided it was going to continue around the circle and got hit by the truck that was going to proceed out of the circle, correctly. The auto continuing around the circle, incorrectly was driven by an older adult, and the driver of the truck, considerably younger, was taking care of her. Neither appeared hurt, but one car door is going to need repair or replacement.

We've had golf carts riding along in the golf cart lane on O'Dell, suddenly decide they were going to make a left turn, and proceeded to drive across our lane and the lane going in the other direction, to make that left turn. Why we didn't hit them with our car was a miracle....and why I didn't have a heart attack is also one. I now have additional gray hair, which I don't need, thank you very much, but we all survived. Honestly, if I had been out of the car I would have slapped that cart driver right up side the head.

I'm paying attention to my driving and my surroundings, all others should be doing the same and not leave me responsible for the safety of all other residents and drivers here in TV...too much work for one person.

Well said.

And another thing to worry about is all of the brand new drivers driving golf carts that have never before driven a car.

ajakk 01-30-2011 03:33 PM

There is another issue about golf carts being able to *STOP*. LSVs and NEVs are required to have hydraulic brakes or better. Most golf cart brakes do not have the ability to stop in time to avoid a problem at excessive speeds. I know my cart wants to slide rather than stop so I take this into consideration when operating my cart regardless of the speed. Most near-misses I have had on the cart paths were due to inattentive drivers, not speed. Speaking from experience, drivers cited without radar usually do something to bring attention to themselves. Personally, I see no reason for me to follow a slower golf cart if it can be passed safely and I will continue to do so

Mikeod 01-30-2011 03:41 PM

Almost got hit today at Publix at Colony. I was not in a car or cart. I was pushing my shopping cart to my car when people in their car just put it in reverse and backed out. I had to jump out of the way or they would have hit me. I think they probably looked to their left to see if anyone was driving down the lane, but never considered that someone was walking from the other direction. Got to look both ways, people! :22yikes:

Talk Host 01-30-2011 04:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NJblue (Post 326948)
On the other hand, I can't even begin to count the number of times I have had close calls in the roundabouts. So, in my opinion, if it is the police's job to put enforcement where the most risk is, they are failing in their job miserably.

What laws are being broken by the people who use the round-a-bouts improperly? (Who determines the right and wrong way to use a round-about) There is no law that says one MUST stay in the right lane in order to exit at the first or second exit. Those guidelines are simply advise, and not the law from what I understand.

Police would be hard pressed to convince a judge that somebody did something illegally in a round-a-bout when the judge probably doesn't know how to use them either.

I have a personal observation about using the villages rotaries. So many people use them wrong that when one tries to use them correctly, they are putting them selves in the line of fire. It's sometimes easier to go with the flow, improper that it might be, than to try to do it right. Doing it the right way can cause an accident.


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