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Most intelligent post I have read,
This entire dispute has eliminated any reasonable resolution to the problem. The offended people have not provided their oppressed group of any solution. The defendant has taken the position that they can not satisfy the offended with any reasonable solution. So the problem has been eliminated, the hearing impaired will not be able to attend any further learning sessions, and the 18,000, other participants will not be able to attend either. Problem solved??? |
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Really upset over this. First we lose Latie Bealls. Now our lifelong college! Something doesn't sound right with this
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Katie. (Error in spelling)
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32 people screw 110,000
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Talk about ironic...I'm a recently retired nationally certified, state licensed signed language interpreter who recently moved here and was looking forward to taking spring courses. I've seen a lot happen throughout my career but never would have seen this one coming.
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This is not the end of the matter. We can build a better education center. We just have to get involved with our community the Villages. Contact your Community Development District Reps on what could be done to get the Villages' Lifelong Learning Center back. Do not take NO for a reasonable answer because it is not. |
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If those "32" are so unhappy here, they should move to Top of the World.
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It is easy to understand how the 18,000 people have lost. It is easy to see how the instructors, working more for love than money, have lost. It is easy to see how the administrators and everyone else involved at any level with the Lifelong Learning College have lost. What I fail to see is what the plaintiffs have gained.
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While I'm just as upset at the closing, there is something in the transcript that I question. The plaintiffs felt the Dragon software was inadequate and the judge agreed. The LLC investigated hiring people to interpret and determined the cost was prohibitive. The plaintiffs felt the LLC essentially gave up too easily and did not not investigate other sources to cover the services. The transcript mentions donations, federal assistance, reducing other costs, and increasing fees, such as a registration fee. Someone above computed that $4 per student would cover that shortfall. I think most of those using the LLC would rather pay a little more than see it closed. So, why did the LLC apparently not pursue these options.
But, to me, the primary reason for closing at this point was the expectation that they would not prevail and would be faced with paying damages which undoubtedly included legal fees for the plaintiffs. |
Ya know, it's very unfortunate, but when blind people go to the movies, they can't see what's being shown on the screen.
Maybe we should close all the movie theaters. |
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This seemed like something that really added to the Villages. Too bad all this happened. I do think when you get egotistical people fighting about something often what is good for the community at large suffers a great deal. It becomes a ****ing contest with the community getting showered. |
This is a total shame. One of shinning star programs of The Villages has been eliminated unnecessarily due to this lawsuit. Do any any of you think it might be possible to reinstitute the program outside the purview of the CDD and Charter School?
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The Charter School is in charge of the VLLC, not the developer, and not the VCDD. |
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Looks to me that there are two problems:
1. The obvious money-grubbing lawsuit that the plaintiffs filed which caused the closing of the Lifelong Learning College. Does anyone really believe that The Villages didn't try several options to accommodate this group? To me it is apparent that money, rather than inclusion, was their motive. 2. When did The Villages make the decision to close the LLC? Were they still using the Lifelong Learning College as a drawing card to potential buyers even after this decision was made? If so, wouldn't this put TV in jeopardy of additional lawsuits for false advertising? How about people being decent to the other people in the community? And how about The Villages brass keeping its citizens informed? Probably too much too ask. |
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I'll post my thoughts here and on the other thread. This is what happens when an institution accepts federal funding as does the Charter School ie you accept funds following federal rules
Secondly the federal laws of ADA say reasonable accommodations. LLC didn't earn enough to pay for the number of people needed to provide sign language at the various locations/courses. Third it is the modus operandi of The Villages (Developer & Districts) to remain quiet about such legal matters. Recall IRS dispute in the beginning, the bison, the Wellness Center Fourth don't expect either the VHA or POA to make an attempt to come to the rescue their both just social clubs. Personal Best Regards: |
I really don't think the plaintiff's main motivation was money. Their "leader" has been characterized as an "activist"--ie: fanatic. He has determined his "rights" and wants to cram them down everyone else's throat, regardless of collateral damage. It's all about me and my cause, and screw everyone else, as long as I get my way. He bears the same relationship to reasonable advocates for the hearing impaired as ISIS does to mainstream Islam or the KKK does to conservative policy.
However, it really isn't important to satisfy this lunatic. The LLLC needed to satisfy the JUDGE, which apparently they failed to do. I wish we all knew the dollar cost of satisfying the judge. I also wonder if the judge could order binding arbitration in this matter. |
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Arbitration is one solution but I never cared much for arbitration because you have one person making the decision. I skirted away from arbitration every chance I had. This is especially true for federal cases because the federal government is so absolute in its thinking. For instance try on for size reasonable accommodations. sufficient is to say the federal government can be quite creative in their interpretation of reasonable. Your right about the judge and this is one of the first order of business with a lawsuit. Who is the judge and is s/he plaintiff/defendant oriented based on past cases, have any conflicts of interests, etc. However based on the fact that this lawsuit was filed eight years ago does not bode well for the defendants Plainly speaking the plaintiffs ought to be ashamed of themselves but the lead plaintiff is a professional litigant..enough said. |
Wow, being a curious individual and having a desire for continuous education (especially on subjects I never delved into during my working years) the LLC was a huge draw for us to TV. We almost signed a contract for a home there this year but then we found out that Mr Hendrick (the guy that keeps getting arrested for trespassing) lived a few doors down, I couldn't, with good conscience, move into a neighborhood with him in it even though it was the perfect home for us. Now this ? I, and I am sure, many other potential buyers are in the process of reevaluating our retirement destination. I hope this decision doesn't affect home values too much.
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"Deaf Villager appeals for understanding after bombshell decision to close Lifelong Learning College. A deaf Villager who was part of a lawsuit seeking accommodation at the Villages Lifelong Learning College speaks out for the first time since the bombshell announcement that the college will be closed."
See online newspaper for more of what the main Plaintiff in this case has written in answer to this problem. |
Start contacting your District's Supervisors.
VCDD Board of Supervisors
I hope people will make their voices heard on other places than TOTV. Write your community leaders in your District and elsewhere. Just start pestering about this closing. Activism can work for good too. Especially coming from the teachers at the Lifelong Learning Center and their many many students. Village Community Development Districts And copy and paste this thread onto Facebook. Will get more notice. |
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I understand the ADA. I'm having trouble understanding how the decision was made that the government (we taxpayers) is responsible for providing medical insurance, SSDI, interpreters, special accommodations, etc. because, due to no fault of ours, someone was born or became blind, deaf and challenged. For example, Are any of the plaintiff(s) deaf because they listened to loud, very loud rock music?
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The Great Courses.
The Great Courses
If you are itching for education these courses are quite good. Maybe, we could start up informal groups to talk about these courses. Some are available for loan from the Lake County Library System. Maybe, we can get the library systems in the Villages' area involved with sponsoring some of these groups like providing a meeting room or even get the Villages Recreation Centers involved??? These would be private groups of people meeting though and hopefully not involve government actions. Study groups in other words talking about something picked by the members. I have heard of local churches sponsoring these kind of study groups and their topic was one of these Great Courses. |
An appeal to the plaintiffs
Let's be practical.
Unless the Developer immediately changes course, before the infrastructure of the LLLC is dismantled, the LLLC is permanently closed and, as a practical matter, no substitute will ever be established. Therefore, I would appeal to the plaintiffs, many of whom are undoubtedly following this thread: Please recognize the immense harm that your lawsuit has done to our community. Instruct your law firm to immediately contact the Developer and make one last effort to work out a settlement that would both address your reasonable objectives and result in the LLLC's remaining open. |
Where??
WHERE IS JANET TUTT? WHY DID SHE HIDE THIS FROM THE RESIDENTS AND IS NOT SPEAKING OUT!!!:MOJE_whot:
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Reality is .... The developer giveth and the developer taketh away
and because the people have no agency to object....no say in the matter.....we the residents loose Remember......Street parades, Katie Bells, Health Care, Moffit Center, Church on the Square........just add this to the list of what we had and lost... |
ADA etc
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Hi it would be nice to get the story on this and so wonder where the real story is. It just does not quite add up, so it seems. bbbbbb :MOJE_whot: :MOJE_whot: |
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:shocked: |
Read the Districtgov.org positon on ADA compliance - > Americans with Disabilities Act Information
"The ADA does not require the VCDD to take any action that would fundamentally alter the nature of its programs or services, or impose an undue financial or administrative burden." |
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read the online story. I don't buy it. I admire the man for being an advocate but his lawsuit closed the LLC because they asked for an injunction and compensatory damages. Why not just a specific motion requiring the LLC to provide the interpreters? I would love to be able to read the depositions.
I worked for a Federal agency for many years. It once was a happy place to work. Then EEO (employee equal opportunity) took hold. If an employee didn't like a review, off they trotted to the office to file a complaint for hostile work environment. So many complaints were filed. and often, if you knew the plaintiffs involved and the real story, they should not have won. One case were some doctors claiming they weren't promoted because they were women. Actually, they were crappy doctors. But because some out of context remarks were overheard, and only some things are admissible in court, they won. Same thing for a pharmacist complaining of religious discrimination. This person wanted the flexibility to come and go as she pleased on a daily basis rather than give any kind of a schedule. She was allowed to take tons of leave without pay. She wanted to take leave without pay for a religious holiday and our supervisors said she had to use her leave and suddenly she's being discriminated against. If administration sees too much leave without pay given, they begin to question the need for the employee so it becomes a risk to lose a fte (full time employee) slot. She had the same law firm as the doctors. There was some technicality that came into pay and she won. One doctor was fired because he took his computer and threw it on the floor. He was known for being one of those aloof doctors. So he was fired for destroying government property. He (using the same lawyer) filed for age discrimination and won. Again, the spirit of the law vs the letter of the law. Perhaps the plaintiff will enlighten us as to what actions he took? did he go to the POA and ask for help? Did he go to the newspaper (and here he could have gone to Orlando--they are only too willing to write such articles?) We aren't privy to anything that really went on. All we know is that the majority will suffer and unfortunately, where once the deaf community would have found support for their cause, now they are experiencing resentment and anger. I would like to know why the LLC couldn't provide the interpreters. was there something else that made it prohibitive. With a population of over 110,000, only 18,000 were enrolled for the next semester. the same percentage applied to the 32 plaintiffs would mean maybe 5 would want to take courses. Surely that could be accommodated. I'd also like to hear what specific courses some of them are interested in but unable to take and the times and dates when they asked the college to provide an interpreter in the past. |
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