The invisible hand. there are a number of ways to maintain control without appearing legally or otherwise to have control..in that way you have the best of both worlds

Seems The Villages, by installing Lift Chairs at numerous pools is not paying "lip service" but accommodating a need for the handicapped. Maintenance will need to happen periodically and it may not be an priority to quickly repair a "specific" chair because there are numerous others available at nearby pools. The maintenance staff, which has multitudes of repair requests because of the multitudes of resident available facilities, has to prioritize. Just be happy because of the multiple facilities within The Villages that other alternative sites are usually available.

Strongly agree! Another activist position.

Agree.

I pointed out earlier that the federal government (EEO) demands are absolute. There are no limitations to reasonableness only excuses.

There are several logical reasons why TV shut this lawsuit down and one would be precedent for future claims of this sort. Another reason would be money and another would piercing The Villages Lake Sumter, Inc (TVLSI) bubble created by and for TVLSI to shield this entity from lawsuits. Perhaps the plaintiffs were getting too close for comfort. I say this because the lead plaintiff has taken it upon himself to become a professional litigant againstTVLSI, et al. there is perhaps a method to this plaintiff's madness and perhaps someone in the background funding him?????

given my years exposed to lawsuits and dealing with the EEO I have learned to assume nothing and expect anything

Actually far mote than 18,000 people are impacted . The 18K number was just those who take courses over a fixed period of time .

It`s conceivable that 3 times that number of individuals would take 1 course or more from the Life Long Learning program over a 2 to 3 year period .

This is an extremely unfortunate and unfair loss to our community . I was a student for several courses each year and enjoyed them all very much .
I trust that the people who destroyed this major community asset are quite pleased and proud of themselves .
And I am not buying the statement from one of the major activists which was published in another forum[s] .
This is unfortunately yet another example of activism and the court system and government run amuck . It is nothing less than " Tyranny by a very small Minority " . Small in numbers and very small minded . A pure selfish act by a few of our " neighbors " .

[QUOTE=Putt4Dough;1329011]“I am deeply saddened that the Lifelong Learning College has chosen to retaliate against members of the deaf community in The Villages by closing its doors,” said Louis Schwarz, a longtime leader in the deaf community.

I don't see it as retaliation. I see it as a need to protect the Charter School. They wanted injunctive relief, maybe it's not the kind they wanted, but they got it. Now everything is equal....nobody benefits from the LLC. I suspect it's more difficult to get the compensation they want when the entity no longer exists.

Reasonable accomadation
 

I may be misreading the lawsuit, but it appears as if the Villages had the plaintiffs case dismissed except for one item. The plaintiffs request for reasonable accomadation had sufficient evidence for the issues to be evaluated. The plaintiffs did not win, but were given the opportunity to contest the contention that it was an undue burden to provide the accomadation requested.

Without any prior notice to the community, it was decided to close the LLC and not proceed to trial. This seems very curious, unless I am misreading the court document.

I would appreciate further details.

IMHO there is a huge amount of information which we will never be privy to and, probably, should never be privy to, after all we are just residents of a retirement community; but I believe the Developer has the best available legal representation and I am sure they did what had to be done in order to bring closure.

How would any of us know that they did what had to be done.

This is a very sad thing for me. One year ago i signed up for Caron and Jack Kriers chair yoga. I had been incapacitated with a hip problem and was quite despondent. That class was a miracle for me and I preregistered for the entire next year. In that class I met people in wheel chairs, people with walkers and canes, people recuperating from strokes etc etc. Caron is the most inspiring loving teacher along with her husband, Jack, who is totally blind and being treated for leukemia. I came to rediscover joy and the courage in the human heart. We did yoga, yes, but also meditated, laughed, supported eavh other etc.As Caron often says, th class is not about the outer body and the costume we wear in this life, but rather the immortal and beautiful soul inside. We are all reminded in her class to assist others in their earth walk because we are all on it.
She teaches many yoga classes and all are full with waiting lists. What a shame for all of us and particularly for Caron and Jack. They had no idea and are totally devestated. My heart bleeds for my friends in that class who will have their lives further limited including the joy we experienced each week.

OK, I know there are former lawyers on ToTV, so I am going to ask the question, do we (the 120,000 minus 32) have a case for a class action suit against the former plaintiffs for the loss of the LLLC and all of its benefits? If so what or how would be the best way to pursue this? Is then even practical?

I see this as the really big hammer if the parties to this situation cannot get together and fix it before the infrastructure for the LLLC completely disappears.

Somebody from this group needs to start organizing immediately ( a retired lawyer would be a good choice to head it up ) to try to stop this. If this means a lawsuit against the original plaintiffs or whatever, this is a huge blow to the future of TV. Who is going to step up and lead the effort, conduct meetings, get Villagers involved etc ?

I do not see any basis for lawsuit against the plaintiffs in this matter. And one against the Developer et al., would be something very hard to do by someone who lives in the Villages.

Write your CDD Supervisors and others who might be able to stop the Lifelong Learning College from shutting down completely.

Maryann - I have been in Caron's class for eight years and I am devastated this is how it had to end. I am in the class prior to the Chair Yoga class and when I leave it was always a joy to see all of you anxiously waiting for your class to begin. Caron and Jack are so very special. I am certain each and everyone who attends their classes has a heavy heart. Namaste.

maryanna630, I am so sorry that the joy and connection of a true community has been ripped away from you and the friends you have found in your classes. While so many of us are saddened by the loss of the chance to learn new things and to be together at the LLC, your beautifully written post here stood out to me.

I am wondering if there is a possibility that some of the many TV churches could make space avaiable in their fellowship rooms for classes. I am a practical woman so I think the churches would need to charge a reasonable rent. But, even so, this could be a wonderful outreach for churches to consider.

(I come from The Land of Church Basements that are often rented out to responsible groups. I know there are no church basements in TV, but there are certainly some lovely fellowship rooms.)

I hope a solution to this awful mess can be found quickly to reopen the LLC for all of us. But.............

The libraries have rooms for group meetings too I assume. And these are usually free.

Could it be?
 

Have you ever seen a person's personality change drastically when all of a sudden they've been given power or authority that they never possessed before? It could be a title change, a uniform change, and/or a leadership change. I'm sure you've all seen this before.

Thirty years ago I was in charge of a break-even, not-for-profit adult education program. The focus of the courses was for individual and community betterment. The program was up-fronted the funding by various public education entities. The understanding was that it was self-supporting and that all funds would be returned at the end of the term. After time, the enrollments grew, the offerings became more diversified and soon we were serving over 9,000 students and the budget grew into the millions. Asking public educational organizations for that much money up-front became very difficult. We were continuously looking to involve businesses and to apply for grant funding from whatever sources were available. If we were diligent and played our cards close to our vest, funding would continue the next term. Putting addition financial burdens on our programs could have had disastrous ramifications.

Enter a real go-getter who was looking to make a name for himself. Someone like the individual I described in my first paragraph. ADA demands went from zero to scores all within one term. Let me take a little aside. I am a lifelong educator and truly believe in inclusiveness. We had no warnings, no discussion, no requests before our program was blindsided. There was no satisfying this person. No accommodations were good enough. None of the actual participants were demanding what-so-ever. They were often embarrassed and wanted to work with us. We later found out that they were sometimes chastised for being cooperative.

To shorten the story and to avoid getting painfully bogged down in details, I brought together a group of leaders in the community to help us figure out what could be done. A problem solving group. I made sure to invite the individual who was the catalyst to our problem. He was much more cooperative in a group setting. We saved our programs, served all members of the community, and taught an important lesson in cooperation.

Xavier

The loss of the LLC is a huge blow, that hopefully can somehow (unclear how at this point)...be averted. :(

Having taken a number of classes, I found the instructors to be more like friends lending a hand...than a typical teacher/student relationship.

However, even suggesting that the plaintiffs be sued...is pretty out there. :ohdear:

Your post really touched my heart. When God closes one door, He opens another. Let's pray it will happen soon for you and your classmates and for Caron and Jack. Namaste. :pray:

One last question...
 

One last thing – is it me or does anyone else see individual posters taking any opportunity to whine about the way it use to be? I miss the buffalo, It's the developer. Too many people, It should be free, It the liberals in Washington, Blame it on Obama, …

No matter what your gripe is, I'm not leaving!

Xavier

How about we skip the lawsuit idea. My apologies to any retired lawyers out there but lawmakers and lawyers have allowed the needs of a few to destroy benifits for the majority, and in this case eliminating the benifits of the LLC for both sides. Why not get a petition drive and get 10's of thousands of Residents to "ask" the Developer or the "controlling entity" of the Lifelong Learning College to get the situation resolved by reasonable compromise or acceptable binding arbitration. We certainly have the expertise within our Residents to draft a document that will strongly request a compromised solution to this unacceptable result. If multiple thousands of signatures on a property drafted petition are ignored by the "powers that be", especially considering the tremendous loss to the community of the LLC, then we will have completed our due diligence as Residents regarding this unfortunate issue. Let us get some common sense back in our lives!

Lifelong Learning Center
 

Anyone can sue anyone else at any time for anything - whether there is reasonable cause or not. (I learned that a long time ago without going to law school. Over a 40 year career in healthcare I've just about seen all of it.)

All that is necessary is to find an attorney willing to take up your cause. I bet a class action group of 100,000 or more, at least initially supported by a healthy gofundme account, would have no difficulty finding excellent representation.


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I believe that Mr. villagetinker put the idea of a lawsuit in the form of a question to see if it had any merit. At this point why not think out of the box. The opposition did! This is a hell of a thing to happen just before the holidays...I lost a job two weeks before Christmas ten years ago, not good. The story about the people in the yoga class on the previous page is rough man, I hope they have a heart and stop this somehow and restrain before things fall apart next week. Take Care.

I read the Court's decision regarding the summary judgment motion to seek an end to that case. Seven years! That's a lot of time for lots of billable hours, especially when the plaintiff's lead firm has no office below the Mason-Dixon line. Travel hours..a great time tested extra hours assurance, especially from NYC to Florida.

Now, and this is one of the reasons I post. That law firm, now known as Eisenberg and Blum, says that they work on contingency fee bases only. So, theoretically these thirty two persons would not have to pay their attorneys as time went along, and they would, like accident lawyers, take a percentage (30-40 %) of awarded monetary damages. But, to the point - the lawyers made sure they had a claim for attorneys fees in their relief clause, along with all the other plaintiff's claims.

If the plaintiffs win their suit - and it's not necessarily over since we're talking years of purported violations of Federal laws and non-legislated agency regulations - if the plaintiffs win even a part, and the legal fees are awarded, then there will be a wonderful opportunity for them to submit masterpieces of creative writing in the form of 'billable hours for services rendered.' I don't know if the ADA or the RA contain mandated awards of fees to lawyers, but if they're like the various Civil Rights acts and lawsuits, they will give a very healthy nest egg to the lawyers.

That is why these aggressive legal knights take on 'cases in the public interest' and act like they're 'peoples' law firms.' They are guaranteed big money at the end of the case.

This boutique law firm practices labor, sexual, and disability law as its expertise. Google them if you wish, and see for yourself.

Be very careful with some of the facile, very partial and incomplete posts above that argue that all people are all entitled to the same things. It's not true, historically or legally. It's what our embarassing college 'snowflakes' are led to believe these days about life. You will see comments saying 'the Learning College' pay the cost to make things satisfactory' to these 32 people. Pass along the cost to us. We have nothing to say about it. Why? Because it's Federal law.

I agree with the idea of shutting down the school in light of a possible jury trial. Do you remember the MacDonald's coffee case? Juries on civil cases can be positively wild - get back at the big boys. Ask any defense lawyer in the accident cases. And who ultimately pays 'purported damages' and lawyers' fees? You and I.

I would hope another form of the Lifelong Learning College can be returned to the people of the Villages somehow free from any and all Federal 'grants' etc and as an idependent entity.

Please also don't mistakenly think the defendants 'were winning.' Some parts, and big ones to be sure, were decided against these 32 people. But, enough remained to go to trial to warrant prudent litigation decisions by the defendants.

What a wonderful jewel these thirty two selfish and entitled people and their ilk took away from the Villages, and most importantly, for those 18000 people who loved the LLC. It's sad when people are angry about their condition or lot in life, but it's reprehensible to selfishly demand that society bend over backwards for them (even if it is the 'almighty Federal law.)

I am a very disgusted retired lawyer. I am a Villager, and I don't like what is happening to this place.

Yes, it was a question, NOT a suggestion. I would love to see a group get together to fix this, but the point of my question was if the plaintiffs originally involved refused any discussion for a solution, would there be a basis to go after them for causing (unintended consequences) the loss of the LLLC, due to their suit.

I have written the CDD and Ms. Tutt, I have a reply from her, and I have asked if she would allow me to copy her reply here. I am waiting for her approval.

Please do not shoot the messenger, I was asking a question, not suggesting a course of action.

Extremely well said.


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As always, well said.

I didn't know you had a law degree. I shoulda...sage man!

The 32 were not looking for a settlement
 

If you scan down to the bottom of the "Schwarz v. VCS" case you will see that Schwarz also wanted damages for not being provided an interpreter when he attended a play that was put on by a Resident Lifestyle Group (Resident Lifestyle Groups are the 2,900+ volunteer groups throughout TV). He supposedly requested an interpreter after contacting the RLG leader and they did not provide one. How would you ever provide an interpreter for a play; the room is dark and how would the deaf person (or persons) see the interpreter? Thank goodness the judge threw out the lawsuit against the Lifestyle Groups because Schwarz wanted them to provide an interpreter for any event that a deaf person attended.

Thank you for your analysis for this situation. I am assuming that the dissolution of the LLLC either ends or effectively ends the original suit as there is no LLLC to sue. I also see that this may very well answer my question, of taking a action against the original plaintiffs, this would just become a legal nightmare and a very expensive one.

Oh well it was just a question.

That wasn't the only post suggesting the idea.

Re: Post #253

I get why people are upset, because I'm one of them, but the vision of pitchforks and burning torches...is not a very flattering picture of our community.

Hi VT, I don't think that dissolution of the LLC ends the suit because the LLC is/was an assumed business name of the Charter School Inc. The latter entity is a continuing party defendant, because the court granted partial summary judgement to it, and not complete summary judgment. I think I recall that the issue of 'undue financial hardship' upon it still remains triable against the Charter School, doing business as LifeLearning College. So, whatever LLC did that is found to be contrary to the RA or such will be ultimately ascribed legally to the Charter School. That includes any purported misdoing in the past, and more importantly, the (theoretical) cost of 'corrective measures' for the LLC if going forward.

I may be inaccurate having read this decision once only.

My heart just aches for all the people that will no longer experience Caron and Jacks yoga classes. I have been taking their classes for over 10 years and can not possible explain the life changing lessons learned in that class. The absence of this class in my life is a major loss. The closing of the LLLC is such a shame. Words can not express the hurt.

Actually this looks like a worthwhile law firm fighting for the rights of the hearing impaired.

Thanks to onslowe for posting with his legal expertise. Miss seeing you in person and hope things are going well? Send me a Private Message if you want to chat.

I doubt if many of the lawyers on the plaintiffs' side are happy with the closing of the Lifelong Learning College either because of their contingency fees but also it hurts their clients who live here in the Villages.

I do hope that we can somehow get some new kind of entity that meets the needs of Villagers to education and also that reasonably accommodates those with some kind of hearing disability.

It seems to me that the plaintiffs differ from everyone else about what the word "reasonable" means.

"Louis Schwarz, et al., Appellants v. The Villages Charter School, Inc., et al." is on the docket of the 11th Circuit Court of Appeals (Atlanta, GA) for 12/16/16. Don't know if it will stay on the docket since the LLC is disbanding, but it's here for your review.

"Elizabeth Holst, who is a Plaintiff in this case with Louis Schwarz, took Schwarz to Small Claims Court in October, 2015.

"Plaintiff asserted Defendant negligently grabbed her and took her phone away from her. Plaintiff claims damages in the amount of $4,422 for being banned from attending Deaf and Social Services, missing water volleyball games, distress, court costs and sheriff fees, and missing bowl leagues. Plaintiff calculated her damage based upon what she thought is fair."

Using this method to determine fairness, I can only imagine what kind of payday the 32 of them were looking for.

Yeah, that is what I was afraid of........this is just one big ugly mess.

Probably the lawyers took the case on a contingency basis and the plaintiffs wont have to pay anything.

They did! They won't. And I believe the attorneys are suing LLC/Charter School for fees associated with this case.


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