(The above is a partial quote from Advogado. I left out the first part because it was in answer to a question unrelated to the suit.)



I sure do like your quote from Abe Lincoln..........

Advogado, as an attorney, can you tell me if this case has now reached the point where working together to solve the problem is no longer possible? I mean from a legal standpoint. Have all those doors been slammed?

I do not think qualified interpreters are easy to find. (I know one interpreter who works for the court system in a large city and makes a tidy part-time sum.)

I cannot imagine that TV and the surrounding area could be flush with interpreters. But if anyone would know how to find interpreters, it seems like it would be the plaintiffs.

I wonder if the plaintiffs were ever asked to provide information as to how to proceed. A list of contacts? Specifics? Where to start? What classes? Availability? Willingness to compromise with a small, step-by-step approach, working together, class-by-class, as needed by individuals?

Can plaintiffs be asked to provide specifics for a satisfactory solution? I guess what I am asking is could the ball have been hit back to the plaintiffs to ask exactly and specifically -- Who? When? Where? -- Or was it? Do we know? Did the plaintiffs offer a plan or did they just say no to things that were offered to them?

Are the plaintiffs' demands somewhat nebulous or could they be met in a reasonable manner with informed, exact direction from the plaintiffs themselves? Can they actually be awarded damages if what is asked for is not possible on a large scale?

I have no idea. I am not a lawyer. I am just wasting time this morning overthinking the wheels within wheels in this case. Anyway, Advogado, thanks for the Abe quote. It seems as though this could have been worked through. But is it now too late?

Feel on of the great bragging rights about living here in The Villages has been taken away from us. I feel there could have been some kind of fore warning to this action. Feel very bad for all the instructors who work and teach who had there jobs so unceremoniously taken away from them. I think it is owed to us to be kept informed of what plans are being made to replace or fix this awful situation. Seems no one can really get answers or knows the complete story!!! Very Sad!!

Thank you for your compliment.

The answer to all your questions is: I really don't know, but, since you asked, the following is my take on the situation.

The Developer suppressed all news of the lawsuit for years, and then suddenly sprang the news of the lawsuit by announcing the closing of the LLLC in his newspaper-- in two articles full of bull and devoid of details. The reporting by The Daily Sun on the issue has been, to put in mildly, shameful. The Daily Sun should be the one doing the digging-- not us.

On the other hand, the plaintiffs started the lawsuit before making any effort to reach out to the community for a solution. They may, as claimed by the Developer in the Daily Sun, be totally unreasonable. We just don't know. Only the plaintiffs and the Developer have the full story, and they aren't being forthcoming with the community.

But let's keep one thing in mind: School systems throughout the country run adult education programs like the LLLC despite the ADA and the possibility of frivolous lawsuits. So the question is: Why cannot The Villages Charter School do the same? We don't know the answer.

If you have a masochistic streak and really want to dig deeper, you can sign up for something called PACER and look at all the court documents, which are voluminous. Our Federal Government at work-- making it extremely difficult for the public to access Federal court records.

However, after signing up for PACER and paying to see the documents, you still won't understand the full story since you won't have access to the communications between the parties. At this point, I have no stomach to further dig into this myself, since none of us can do much about the LLLC closing-- which is in the hands of the Developer and the plaintiffs.

More importantly in my view: Watch for the outcome of Plaintiffs' appeal of the summary judgment dismissal of their compliant attacking The Villages clubs. If that dismissal is overturned, we have a much more serious problem here than just the LLLC closing. As of this morning, the Court of Appeals website doesn't show that any decision has been rendered.

As to the LLLC closing: Apparently efforts are being made to construct a substitute. I'm not holding my breath on that one, since the plaintiffs are likely to raise the same ADA/Rehabilitation Act issues regarding the substitute.

As to your question about the likelihood of a settlement: The plaintiffs' attorneys have sunk a tremendous number of billable hours into this matter-- looking to get paid by the defendants. If the summary judgment dismissal re the clubs is upheld on appeal, maybe the plaintiffs' attorneys will decide that they want to cut their losses, but I doubt it. They will probably continue on the LLLC issue-- unless the Developer is willing to pony up a significant amount of money for their fees. Remember that closing the "Lifelong Learning College" (just a name used by The Villages Charter School for its adult education program) does not end the lawsuit.

The above is just my opinion, and I, as indicated, am not playing with a full deck of cards. I guess you get what you pay for in terms of legal advice.

Nicely put advogato. Few people are aware just how much paper work these large cases generate and how difficult it is to look at it in a useful setting. I used to work at the University of Minnesota Law Library and have seen some of the filings in cases like this one.

Still believe this is two sides ****ing all over the community because some of them are very big dogs or see themselves that way and were unwilling to back down from this fight. The community gets hurt and the big dogs keep their pride.

Well, I was curious and signed up for Pacer Monitor's free trial membership plus $.15 per page document fee. I soon realized it wasn't worthwhile, as Advogado says. After spending a few dollars the only thing of substance I saw was the "Final Joint Pretrial Statement" issued at the end of September. This has to do with the one issue the Court decided was worthy of being tried, the Plaintiffs' alleged discrimination by the LLC under the Rehabilitation Act. As of a few weeks ago, it was set for trial in Ocala in front of a visiting judge in January or February, 2017.

This is separate from Plaintiffs' Appeal (Case No. 16-11122) concerning the Villages' Clubs, which was to be heard in appellate court in Atlanta two weeks ago.

I hate to think about what this has cost and who will pay.

The Developer suppressed all news of the lawsuit for years, and then suddenly sprang the news of the lawsuit by announcing the closing of the LLLC in his newspaper-- in two articles full of bull and devoid of details. The reporting by The Daily Sun on the issue has been, to put in mildly, shameful. The Daily Sun should be the one doing the digging-- not us.
I'm not sure that the developer "suppressed" all of the news, but as I posted before, no organization airs their legal issues in public. It will have absolutely no bearing on the outcome and only leads to threads like this one that are 99.9% based on hearsay and speculation. Who knows, had they spoke out about this 3 years ago, the LLC may have closed 3 years ago. As for the plaintiff, if they were so sure of their position, why didn't they go public? Probably because they knew that 99.9% of the sentiment would have been against them and they would have had to endure 3 years of online and possibly personal ridicule.

On the other hand, the plaintiffs started the lawsuit before making any effort to reach out to the community for a solution. They may, as claimed by the Developer in the Daily Sun, be totally unreasonable. We just don't know. Only the plaintiffs and the Developer have the full story, and they aren't being forthcoming with the community.
Same response as above.

But let's keep one thing in mind: School systems throughout the country run adult education programs like the LLLC despite the ADA and the possibility of frivolous lawsuits. So the question is: Why cannot The Villages Charter School do the same? We don't know the answer.
I think one of the points the plaintiffs were trying to prove, was a very direct connection between the developer and the school. If that could have been proven, you then have access to the developers deep pockets for all forms of remedy and compensation. If not, the school which has shallow pockets closes the LLC to prevent future potential losses that could lead to the closing of the entire school. Another point was to try to prove that the RLG's are identical to the LLC and thus subject to the same laws. I think they were also trying to prove a connection between the RLG's and the developer as well, again to gain access to deep pockets. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but to date, the developer has won every point. The last point to be decided is if the RLG's are subject to ADA and RA laws, no?

If you have a masochistic streak and really want to dig deeper, you can sign up for something called PACER and look at all the court documents, which are voluminous. Our Federal Government at work-- making it extremely difficult for the public to access Federal court records.

However, after signing up for PACER and paying to see the documents, you still won't understand the full story since you won't have access to the communications between the parties. At this point, I have no stomach to further dig into this myself, since none of us can do much about the LLLC closing-- which is in the hands of the Developer and the plaintiffs.
I had a Pacer account and it can get expensive since you pay by the page and many of these documents are dozens of pages long. Even with the documents, you are only getting part of the story.

More importantly in my view: Watch for the outcome of Plaintiffs' appeal of the summary judgment dismissal of their compliant attacking The Villages clubs. If that dismissal is overturned, we have a much more serious problem here than just the LLLC closing. As of this morning, the Court of Appeals website doesn't show that any decision has been rendered.
100 % correct!

As to the LLLC closing: Apparently efforts are being made to construct a substitute. I'm not holding my breath on that one, since the plaintiffs are likely to raise the same ADA/Rehabilitation Act issues regarding the substitute.
100% correct!

As to your question about the likelihood of a settlement: The plaintiffs' attorneys have sunk a tremendous number of billable hours into this matter-- looking to get paid by the defendants. If the summary judgment dismissal re the clubs is upheld on appeal, maybe the plaintiffs' attorneys will decide that they want to cut their losses, but I doubt it. They will probably continue on the LLLC issue-- unless the Developer is willing to pony up a significant amount of money for their fees. Remember that closing the "Lifelong Learning College" (just a name used by The Villages Charter School for its adult education program) does not end the lawsuit.
This one is a crapshoot. The plaintiffs attorneys will evaluate the chances of winning on appeal and the odds of getting paid before proceeding - common sense. This is the only time where this tread with 800+ posts and 80,000+ views that are 99.9% of the same thinking, might have some impact - but don't count on it.

Question
 

This is true. That being said, aren't these same "litigants" going after any and every activity?

Yep...Schwarz wants money or interpreters for every activity...
Can you imagine the busy interpreter at the square on a night while Scooter is performing. I guess they will have to designate an area for the deaf to sit where they are in direct view of the interpreter. If someone yells from the crowd, do they sign that too?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk

Kinda like the seat savers...just in case they want to show up. Me, me, me mentality abounds.

Originally I was angry when I heard about this. Now I just feel sad. Given what so many have lost, what has anyone gained? Have we completely lost our common sense?

Let us root for a complete victory by the defendants-- with the plaintiffs getting absolutely nothing as damages and their law firm having to eat hundreds of billable hours and related costs.

I hope that I am wrong, but I think that ONLY that outcome (which would preclude another lawsuit by the plaintiffs and would be a precedent if any others tried to sue) might result in the Developer changing his mind and the Charter School's reopening the Lifelong Learning College. Such reopening is what I think that virtually every contributor to this thread would like to have happen.

I am sure there is plenty of precedence with all the ADA lawsuits...but I will hope the plantiffs lose and move far away (itsallaboutmesville)!

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk

:thumbup:

Just buy all the plaintiff's homes and move them somewhere else

Learning Center
 

It is always about the money and how 37 people the minority tell the majority over 20,000 people that you will lose your rights. Next they will ask that all handouts and notices be in Braille for the blind. It is a sad day but society continues to be ruled by the minority, another example is taking God out of the schools. We are to blame to allow these things to happen. Welcome to 2017!
Peter Croden