blah blah blah.....
 

I never worried about what the Ford family owned when I bought one of their cars! oh yeah ... ...
:ohdear:

Cheerleader Point of View
 

Most people give me a look that I must be smoking the funny weed when I try to explain what TV is all about.

Hats off to the "Morse" family for being visionaries and businessmen who made TV what it is today and for what it will be going forwrad.

It may not be perfect but nothing else I have seen comes close to matching all of the amenties it has.

Or Heinz Ketchup.

Never had to pay a bond or monthly payments either.
Absolutely beautiful weather here today. Everyone enjoy!

No, none of us had to do that before. The cost of the infrastructure was part of the advertised sale price of the house in the other parts of the country.

The bond price is simple information to absorb. I think the simplest way to figure the bond on a property is this. A property selling for $229 has a bond of approximately 22 thousand. A property selling for $560 has a bond of approximatly 56 thousand. It is easy to figure. Add about ten percent to a new home for the pipes and the wires and the pools and the golfcart paths and the streets and the streetlights and the golf courses and the pickleball courts etc. etc. (The Republican editorials in the local newspaper are extra) Had to throw that in to see if you all were paying attention. ;).

Once you get over the hump of adding that price to the sale price of the home you can move on with your life.

And enjoy the beautiful weather as we are all doing.

Hi Jan,
There's something about this argument I don't get. "Everything you do from the time you get up in the morning until you go to bed at night..." somebody gets a cut.

Make that many, many somebodies. The manufacturers, distributors and retailers, and their employees, lawyers, accountants, and scientists, inventors, investors, bankers, etc. all get a cut, whether for your mattress, your toothbrush, the toilet you flush, the road you drive on, the clothes you wear, the activities you're involved in, the programs you watch and on and on.

Now the Morse's were entrepreneurial enough, visionary enough, savvy enough, hard working enough to build a fabulous community like no other on earth that would also provide a need for other goods and services that they were enterprising enough to supply and for the goods and services sold by other businesses to whom they lease.

Therefore yes, the Morse's get a cut from many of your activities. They are among the many somebodies who get a cut from everything you do from the time you get up in the morning until you go to bed at night. If they didn't get their particular cuts, another supplier would.

When you think of it this way... what's the problem?

Hey Phyllis don't forget the government's cut or you'll end up in the big house! Great post.

larry wilson
 

By reading some of your posts I take it that you are not a great fan of tv

Why?
 

If you moved here and didn't know any of this ahead of time...Shame on you.

You people remind me of the guy who bought a beautiful home in Chatam.

After they moved here they found out there are train tracks very close to

their house. They blamed everyone but themselves. They left finally. Nobody

put a gun to their head to move here and nobody was holding a gun to their

head to stay. I don't think they were happy here. I give them credit for doing

what it took to be happier. Life is to short. You could get killed crossing

466 on a bike or die in a fire at a pizza joint with dirty restrooms.

I'm 62 and have been retired 18 years as of last Saturday. This is the place

for my wife and me. We couldn't be happier. :) BUT...It's not for everyone.:sad:

Love this post! Great!!!!

And of course it gets the SWIMDAWG Post of the Day Award!

Oh yes! :eclipsee_gold_cup:

I was referring to comparing this place to a Ford or Heinz. Ford or Heinz don't have bonds or amenity fees.

Everyone benefits when the county's tax base grows because of growth, while others are stagnant or shrinking.

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/...-sumter-county

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/...ction-counties

au contraire, I knew that it would continue to cost me in maintenance and fuel for as long as I owned it, and I did pay to add options (amenities) to my base car.

I think what Morses get is more like a premium than a cut when it comes to retailers. I think they charge so much for rent to places like Sweet Bay and Publix that the supermarkets have to boost thier prices to make their margin.

Now I understand this and don't have a problem with it...one must expect to pay a premium for that "something extra"...in TV's case, golf cart accessability. On Thanksgiving I had to dash to SB to get a quart of whipping cream. I paid a premium for it over the cost I would have paid in Wildwood. But I dashed over the river and through the woods to SB in my golf cart. I like having a SB *inside* TV.

When I have more time I travel outside TV to get better prices on goods.

On public services, I'm sure the Morses get a cut, but that's OK too...I'm the CUSTOMER. They serve ME! They provide something I wanted and sought to obtain...and I have to expect to pay for it.

it is becoming an urban legend...the story of businesses not able to make it in TV because of high rent. The rent is exactly the same today as it was any day any retailer signed their lease. Some businesses do not make revenues as projected and that has absolutely nothing to do with the rent. It has all to do with being competitive, good quality, good service and the right price.

Too many businesses come here with stars in their eyes and optomism in their projections. And when they are not doing as expected they bad mouth TV rent structure. The rent rates for commercial property here in TV is no more expensive than in any other comparable quality shoping/mall location.

I am not propping up TV developers in any way, however, I do think it is unfair to the many, MANY successful businesses here in TV that are doing just fine and growing with the growth of TV.

It ain't the rent!!!

btk

You must know many small business people in TV. I think when people open up a business with their hard earned money they do have "Stars in their Eyes" as most people do when they open up a business putting all their savings into their "dream". I am guessing it's the ole American dream.

Opening up a business is so different than working for a company and then after many years of hard work getting a pension. Everyone has their own "dream" in life.

I haven't seen the statistics lately, but 10 years ago 80% of small businesses failed in the first year. Many people start business with a dream, but soon reality hits. One of my best friends and a former employee decided he wanted to start a resturaunt/bar with another friend of his - six months later the "friend" had fled the coop leaving him holding the bag as the resturaunt failed. He worked for 5 years to pay off the debts and finally, despite superhuman effort, he had to declare bankrupcy. Ir is most definitely not for everybody - you'd better be tough and financially prepared to weather the storm for the first couple years.

Where do you get your information on area commercial lease rates?

Why should we have to pay higher prices at grocery stores here just because they happen to be golf cart accessible? They have a terrific market here - 80,000 + retired people guarantees a pretty good profit even if they keep their prices what they should be. And I do expect if Morse wasn't charging premium rents, and taking a cut of profits, our prices at the local stores would be lower.

I have been told that the Krogers store near where we used to live charged more than the one in the inner city.

Now it could be those danged Republican developers and it could be the marketing tactic of the grocery store chains too.

Nahhh! must be the developer.

I think it is great that we not only know more than the developer of the Villages, but we know more than the owners of big supermarket chains.
How did they ever manage without us? Watch out NASA - you're next!:coolsmiley:

The exit door is always open.

Because this is America, Man...the price is "whatever the market will bear". And lots of folks here have a sufficient level of wealth that they don't sweat the grocery prices (I'm not one of them, but I don't clip coupons either, yet).

Aren't the flyers for SweetBay, Publix, and Winn-Dixie regional, including stores out of TV? When I shop at these chains in Jacksonville and St. Augustine I don't see noticeably lower prices across the board. If there is a premium for those stores on TV property, it can't be significant to their overall pricing.

I don't shop Food4Less or Aldi, so I can't compare them.

I agree with you up to a point - it is obviously what the market will bear, but that doesn't make it right. You have 80,000 retirees, an aging community where a certain percentage have trouble driving a car, and so take golf carts, etc., and they're taking advantage to make even more money than they normally would. I'm not blasting the stores, I guess I'm blasting Morse. His cut is what is behind all this. If he was just taking a small percentage it would be one thing, but from what everyone is saying, it is much more than that. I'm not in a situation where it affects me financially i.e. I'm not a coupon clipper either, but the principle of the thing bothers me, just saying. I don't like to be taken advantage of.

If NASA is next, can brain surgery be far behind??

I respect what the Morse family has done to build such a wonderful community. There is no other place in the WORLD like it.

Maybe you need to learn something from them. I bet they were and still are coupon clippers. Wise consumers - wise people.

I have a few bucks and one of the reason I do is because I am a coupon clipper. All those pennies I saved from using coupons in my younger years, I invested.

It's the American way.

I'd settle for us fixing Congress!! :boxing2:

Fixing Congress? No, I think FLUSHING it would be more effective.

I respect what this community is as well. However it would be just as good if not better, if the Morse's weren't so greedy. And any money you might save using coupons is offset by their cut on the groceries that they take from the stores, to put it in perspective. I personally think a guy with 3 jets, a yacht half the length of a football field, many multimillion dollar homes, etc., is probably not a coupon-clipper. Just my opinion.

I have met a few wealthy people and all of them continued to be careful with their money. It is part of the reason they became wealthy.

There is no shame in having possessions if you work hard to get them.

Being successful and having money doesn't make a person bad and amassing more doesn't mean they are greedy.

Only losers go into business to lose money.

Obviously there is a line between greed and making a reasonable profit. You have to look at the definition of greed - which is excessive desire for wealth and possessions. Essentially, greed is when you extort, rip off or even steal to get more money.

A case in point is the $40 million class action lawsuit filed against the Developer. Its shameful that things had to go that far, just so amenity services and facilities would be maintained. A non-greedy businessman would have admitted that things needed to be fixed, that there was a problem, and gone ahead and done the right thing. It seems to me that if Morse had really cared about the status of the facilities and services in The Villages, he would not have to be prodded by a lawsuit to do what is good for the community and what he was morally and legally responsible for.

The the whole IRS bond thing is another issue the Villagers have been saddled with, thanks to the "business acumen" of the Morses. It remains to be seen how it will be resolved, but certainly has the potential to cost us Villagers hundreds of millions of dollars. If that happened, I expect there would have to be another class action lawsuit to get the Morses to do what is right.

Do I love the Villages? Yes, I enjoy most aspects of it. Do I think the Morse's are taking advantage of the seniors here? You betcha. I'm sure a bunch of Morse cronies will be on shortly to disagree, which is their right, but there have been many, many posts decrying the business tactics of the Morse family, and it has been covered heavily in the media. You can bury your head in the sand and ignore it all, but it isn't going away. Only losers let themselves get taken advantage of.

Really ?

[QUOTE=Taj44;426773]Obviously there is a line between greed and making a reasonable profit. You have to look at the definition of greed - which is excessive desire for wealth and possessions. Essentially, greed is when you extort, rip off or even steal to get more money.

A case in point is the $40 million class action lawsuit filed against the Developer. Its shameful that things had to go that far, just so amenity services and facilities would be maintained. A non-greedy businessman would have admitted that things needed to be fixed, that there was a problem, and gone ahead and done the right thing. It seems to me that if Morse had really cared about the status of the facilities and services in The Villages, he would not have to be prodded by a lawsuit to do what is good for the community and what he was morally and legally responsible for.

The the whole IRS bond thing is another issue the Villagers have been saddled with, thanks to the "business acumen" of the Morses. It remains to be seen how it will be resolved, but certainly has the potential to cost us Villagers hundreds of millions of dollars. If that happened, I expect there would have to be another class action lawsuit to get the Morses to do what is right.

Do I love the Villages? Yes, I enjoy most aspects of it. Do I think the Morse's are taking advantage of the seniors here? You betcha. I'm sure a bunch of Morse cronies will be on shortly to disagree, which is their right, but there have been many, many posts decrying the business tactics of the Morse family, and it has been covered heavily in the media. You can bury your head in the sand and ignore it all, but it isn't going away. Only losers let themselves get taken advantage of.[/QUOTE]

Because you are a resident, do you put yourself in the losers category?

There are choices to be made and clearly people should, no MUST, examine a place carefully before they decide to buy and live there.

I think that I heard that the lawsuit that you speak of brought great personal profit to the villagers who brought it and correct me if I wrong.

I think that a lot of people do NOT know that this is a CDD form of government and that it is unlike any that any of us have been used to previously. The developers can run this place pretty much like a monarchy and the fact that their political leanings are Republican color many an aspect of the life here. Only Republican candidates and speakers are invited to speak. The paper has a Republican editorial slant. Fox news was broadcast from here. The Morse family are known to have contributed large sums to the Republican party. Maybe because of that a lot of people are drawn to move here because a lot of older people are Republicans. Now that is great unless you aren't and I think a lot of people come here and are really, REALLy disappointed about that aspect of The Villages.

The IRS issue, as it has been explained to me at least, does not mean that we villagers are liable if the IRS would rule against the Morses. Please correct me if I am wrong. The IRS issue has been discussed for the four years that I have read this forum. It is not that the Morses have withheld money from their taxes but how the bonds are interpreted...and they are NOT the bonds on the home for the infrastructure, for any new readers. If the IRS would rule against the Morses, it appears to me they have the dough to pay it, and had the opportunity to do that at the beginning but, if I remember it correctly, seemed to think that HOW a CDD was run was the issue, and please correct me if I am wrong.

It means a lot to me personally that people who would enjoy this place know the truth even if it is smarmy. I don't know the Morse family, maybe they are a bunch of losers. I see so much evidence around me of what is NOT greed. The green spaces left for us to enjoy looking at, maintained beautifully, they could have done far less and maintained them in an average way. I see the rec centers that are not blah but each individual one a feast for the eyes. I see that the pools are sparkling clean, always and that is hard to do... I see that they are good business people, BIG BUSINESS people, but I am not afraid of big business. Those kinds of success stories are as American as Apple pie.

I have had a lot of experiences in my life, but living here is the MOST pleasant place I have found and I am surprised and delighted that the last years of my life seem to be the best. I have to blame someone, so I will blame the Morses...who may not be as nice as I think.

And I am sure someone will disagree with me, but that is the reason we have this forum...so we can talk and listen and hopefully learn.

There is a method I use to avoid being taken advantage of, and that is mainly trying to not utilize companies or businesses that would do so. Obviously, in The Villages, with Morse's hand in so many pots, it is difficult to completely avoid, but we try. Do you think I bought my furniture at overpriced Southern Lifestyles? No way, I saved a ton, and bought outside the Villages. I saved money on my mortgage by NOT getting it at Citizens bank. I paid off the bond to avoid paying the excessive interest rates. I purchase some groceries at Sam's and Walmarts . I do my best to support the POA, because I think they have our best interests at heart. If the conditions at the Villages golf courses are crummy, I just don't play golf here, I go outside The villages. If the IRS business escalates to the point where it is going to cost Villagers serious money, I will probably leave. That will be the last straw for me. Everyone has their own set of values and things that are important to them. The Morse's and their excessive greed do not represent my values and I have little respect for them. Sorry if that displeases some of you, but that is the way I see it, and there have been numerous threads on this issue in the past, with many others feeling the same way. We can go back and forth, and we all have our own opinions, which will not change, so I guess I'm done discussing this issue.

Why wait. Home prices are at an all time low. Take advantage of it, you can save even more. You shouldn't stay if you feel there is only doom and gloom ahead.

I guess I see no conflict in disliking or distrusting the developer and loving the development. I don't know any morse but I have read plenty of things about them that make me beleive they are not my kind of folks on the whole. At the same time I am very anxious to move to The Villages. As far as I know I won't have to befriend any of the morses.

A lot of the complaints about the Morses is plain old ordinary envy.

How is Envy more noble than Greed? Both are self destructive!

And regarding this.....

........

....Does this mean that because Bill Gates and Steve Jobs have made lightyears beyond "reasonable" profits, that they should have or should now quit inventing and make the products we WANT to buy (as we WANT to buy The Villages) that make our lives better and easier?? I don't think so.

I think a lot of these claims of "Greed" ought to be turned toward the dumb-a** politicians whose uncompromising "greed" for power is ruining this once-great nation.