Originally Posted by graciegirl (Post 426781)

There are choices to be made and clearly people should, no MUST, examine a place carefully before they decide to buy and live there.

I think that I heard that the lawsuit that you speak of brought great personal profit to the villagers who brought it and correct me if I wrong.

I think that a lot of people do NOT know that this is a CDD form of government and that it is unlike any that any of us have been used to previously. The developers can run this place pretty much like a monarchy and the fact that their political leanings are Republican color many an aspect of the life here. Only Republican candidates and speakers are invited to speak. The paper has a Republican editorial slant. Fox news was broadcast from here. The Morse family are known to have contributed large sums to the Republican party. Maybe because of that a lot of people are drawn to move here because a lot of older people are Republicans. Now that is great unless you aren't and I think a lot of people come here and are really, REALLy disappointed about that aspect of The Villages.

The IRS issue, as it has been explained to me at least, does not mean that we villagers are liable if the IRS would rule against the Morses. Please correct me if I am wrong. The IRS issue has been discussed for the four years that I have read this forum. It is not that the Morses have withheld money from their taxes but how the bonds are interpreted...and they are NOT the bonds on the home for the infrastructure, for any new readers. If the IRS would rule against the Morses, it appears to me they have the dough to pay it, and had the opportunity to do that at the beginning but, if I remember it correctly, seemed to think that HOW a CDD was run was the issue, and please correct me if I am wrong.

It means a lot to me personally that people who would enjoy this place know the truth even if it is smarmy. I don't know the Morse family, maybe they are a bunch of losers. I see so much evidence around me of what is NOT greed. The green spaces left for us to enjoy looking at, maintained beautifully, they could have done far less and maintained them in an average way. I see the rec centers that are not blah but each individual one a feast for the eyes. I see that the pools are sparkling clean, always and that is hard to do... I see that they are good business people, BIG BUSINESS people, but I am not afraid of big business. Those kinds of success stories are as American as Apple pie.

I have had a lot of experiences in my life, but living here is the MOST pleasant place I have found and I am surprised and delighted that the last years of my life seem to be the best. I have to blame someone, so I will blame the Morses...who may not be as nice as I think.

And I am sure someone will disagree with me, but that is the reason we have this forum...so we can talk and listen and hopefully learn.

Originally Posted by eweissenbach (Post 426818)

I guess I see no conflict in disliking or distrusting the developer and loving the development. I don't know any morse but I have read plenty of things about them that make me believe they are not my kind of folks on the whole. At the same time I am very anxious to move to The Villages. As far as I know I won't have to befriend any of the morses.

Originally Posted by SgtJohn (Post 426807)

Why wait. Home prices are at an all time low. Take advantage of it, you can save even more. You shouldn't stay if you feel there is only doom and gloom ahead.

Originally Posted by SunCity (Post 426844)

we have lots of places here in sun city that are for sale at really low prices but we don't have all the perks that you guys in the villages have. and if they moved here, they'd probably go after Del Webb and all the money his family has.

Originally Posted by Larry Wilson (Post 426861)

Sun.
Huh, We have lots of places for sale too.?? We also have people who have left for the Del Ws around here.
The financial structure is very different in Del Ws than in here. We are a private family owned development with closed books. The Del near here has had no lawsuits or IRS investigations that I know of... Once built out is complete, the residents own and control their development with open books. As a mattter of fact, I think the Del nearest here is very well off with about a million in the bank.
But the point is almost everyone likes living here but separates living here from the behavior of the 3rd generation of the developer. So yes, this is an amazing place and this thread is about the huge organization of the Morse family.

Originally Posted by Larry Wilson (Post 426885)

Sun,
Thanks for the very respectful answer. I need to be going so this is just a short answer. Many many people have lost a great deal of money on homes in here. The people who are not happy in here get bashed to death on their first post on this board so you will never hear it on here.
But I agree this is a great place, but we are comparing apples and oranges. Many of the Dell Webbs are built out and getting old. We may someday too.
Plus we are 86,000.
I had a ton of respect for Harold, less for Gary, and even less for Mark. I know the family very well and have had business dealings with them. However, you are entitled to your opinion. All opinions should be respected whether you agree or not.
Now I really must get going. We are having a big Christmas party tonight at Savannah and I should be there.
Thanks again for your very polite post.

Originally Posted by Larry Wilson (Post 426861)

Sun.
Huh, We have lots of places for sale too.?? We also have people who have left for the Del Ws around here.
The financial structure is very different in Del Ws than in here. We are a private family owned development with closed books. The Del near here has had no lawsuits or IRS investigations that I know of... Once built out is complete, the residents own and control their development with open books. As a mattter of fact, I think the Del nearest here is very well off with about a million in the bank.
But the point is almost everyone likes living here but separates living here from the behavior of the 3rd generation of the developer. So yes, this is an amazing place and this thread is about the huge organization of the Morse family.

Originally Posted by SunCity (Post 426870)

we have what they call PORA here in sun city. look it up online.

the problem here is that everything was really good in the beginning. but now things have gone down. things are not kept up like in the villages. i'm not complaining. it's nice here. Del Webb has done a good job but the Morse family has done a spectacular job developing the villages and keeping it up-even improving the quality of life for you people as time goes on. here that is not the case.

our houses are for sale for really cheap because of the economy. from what i see online, your houses that are for sale in the villages have not decreased in value like ours have. people can't sell their houses here and are losing a lot of money.

i admire both the Del Webb family and the Morse family for what they have done. but i think you people in the villages are lucky to have such good developers.

Originally Posted by Larry Wilson (Post 426885)

Sun,
Thanks for the very respectful answer. I need to be going so this is just a short answer. Many many people have lost a great deal of money on homes in here. The people who are not happy in here get bashed to death on their first post on this board so you will never hear it on here.
But I agree this is a great place, but we are comparing apples and oranges. Many of the Dell Webbs are built out and getting old. We may someday too.
Plus we are 86,000.
I had a ton of respect for Harold, less for Gary, and even less for Mark. I know the family very well and have had business dealings with them. However, you are entitled to your opinion. All opinions should be respected whether you agree or not.
Now I really must get going. We are having a big Christmas party tonight at Savannah and I should be there.
Thanks again for your very polite post.

Originally Posted by Bogie Shooter (Post 426920)

Isn't Savannah nice? I think those greedy Morse's built it.

Originally Posted by janmcn (Post 426960)

You are correct. If you've been here anytime at all, you know the Morse's built it prior to 2000 for five million dollars and turned around in 2003 and sold it to the residents for 25 million dollars. There was no negotiating on the price. Quite an investment.

Originally Posted by graciegirl (Post 426998)

Janmcn..I have to guess by this post and others that you are negative toward the Morses. Where did you hear this information? As far as I know it is a rec center just like all other rec centers and not "sold back" to anyone. HOW did the residents buy it back????

My concern is this to anyone reading my posts. I wish anyone who legitimately wants to look into retiring here could do so. Some people are a little timid about things. When I read posts that are so inflamatory, my heart aches because I know they will turn people away. Do I work for the Morses? NO. Do I get anything out of it for myself? NO. It just burns me up that people get on here and say things that aren't true and turn someone nice away who could be enjoying it as much as we do.

AND I have to wonder what is the REAL motivation for these negative posts.

I am not having a good day and I feel that I might soon bite.

Originally Posted by graciegirl (Post 426998)

Janmcn..I have to guess by this post and others that you are negative toward the Morses. Where did you hear this information? As far as I know it is a rec center just like all other rec centers and not "sold back" to anyone. HOW did the residents buy it back????

My concern is this to anyone reading my posts. I wish anyone who legitimately wants to look into retiring here could do so. Some people are a little timid about things. When I read posts that are so inflamatory, my heart aches because I know they will turn people away. Do I work for the Morses? NO. Do I get anything out of it for myself? NO. It just burns me up that people get on here and say things that aren't true and turn someone nice away who could be enjoying it as much as we do.

AND I have to wonder what is the REAL motivation for these negative posts.

I am not having a good day and I feel that I might soon bite.

Originally Posted by graciegirl (Post 427023)

Thank you Bogie.

I always trust your judgement.

I am sorry Janmcn and also Weissenbach.

I stand corrected.

Originally Posted by graciegirl (Post 427023)

Thank you Bogie.

I always trust your judgement.

I am sorry Janmcn and also Weissenbach.

I stand corrected.

Originally Posted by Larry Wilson (Post 426885)

Sun,
Thanks for the very respectful answer. I need to be going so this is just a short answer. Many many people have lost a great deal of money on homes in here. The people who are not happy in here get bashed to death on their first post on this board so you will never hear it on here.
But I agree this is a great place, but we are comparing apples and oranges. Many of the Dell Webbs are built out and getting old. We may someday too.
Plus we are 86,000.
I had a ton of respect for Harold, less for Gary, and even less for Mark. I know the family very well and have had business dealings with them. However, you are entitled to your opinion. All opinions should be respected whether you agree or not.
Now I really must get going. We are having a big Christmas party tonight at Savannah and I should be there.
Thanks again for your very polite post.

Originally Posted by janmcn (Post 427039)

Apology accepted. Some people (I won't say many or most) who have lived here for decades are a little cynical concerning the Morses. I hope you never lose your enthusiasm for TV. I hope I'm around to hear what you have to say in 2018.

Originally Posted by Indy-Guy (Post 427139)

Would someone let me know how much money you have to have before they label you as GREEDY?

It seems to me the answer is when people make more money than the person who is calling someone greedy has.

If the Morse family about 20% into this project had gone belly-up we would not be having this conversation or even talkofthevillages and 80% of us would not be living here also people around here would be saying the Morse family should have ran their business better. I am very thankful that they were successful. I am sure that there were times when the Morse family did not think that this thing was going to fly but it did.

Profit is only a dirty word when the person you are doing business with is getting it. But when you are getting it it is a great thing.

I have a feeling that most of us worked for very profitable companies while we were working and that is what got us here.

Originally Posted by jblum315 (Post 427157)

I just picture the Morse family, especially the older ones, looking around and thinking "Wow, look what we did here!!"

Originally Posted by Indy-Guy (Post 427139)

Would someone let me know how much money you have to have before they label you as GREEDY?

It seems to me the answer is when people make more money than the person who is calling someone greedy has.

If the Morse family about 20% into this project had gone belly-up we would not be having this conversation or even talkofthevillages and 80% of us would not be living here also people around here would be saying the Morse family should have ran their business better. I am very thankful that they were successful. I am sure that there were times when the Morse family did not think that this thing was going to fly but it did.

Profit is only a dirty word when the person you are doing business with is getting it. But when you are getting it it is a great thing.

I have a feeling that most of us worked for very profitable companies while we were working and that is what got us here.

Originally Posted by Indy-Guy (Post 427139)

Would someone let me know how much money you have to have before they label you as GREEDY?

It seems to me the answer is when people make more money than the person who is calling someone greedy has.

If the Morse family about 20% into this project had gone belly-up we would not be having this conversation or even talkofthevillages and 80% of us would not be living here also people around here would be saying the Morse family should have ran their business better. I am very thankful that they were successful. I am sure that there were times when the Morse family did not think that this thing was going to fly but it did.

Profit is only a dirty word when the person you are doing business with is getting it. But when you are getting it it is a great thing.

I have a feeling that most of us worked for very profitable companies while we were working and that is what got us here.

Originally Posted by jblum315 (Post 427157)

I just picture the Morse family, especially the older ones, looking around and thinking "Wow, look what we did here!!"

Originally Posted by Indy-Guy (Post 427139)

Would someone let me know how much money you have to have before they label you as GREEDY?

It seems to me the answer is when people make more money than the person who is calling someone greedy has.

If the Morse family about 20% into this project had gone belly-up we would not be having this conversation or even talkofthevillages and 80% of us would not be living here also people around here would be saying the Morse family should have ran their business better. I am very thankful that they were successful. I am sure that there were times when the Morse family did not think that this thing was going to fly but it did.

Profit is only a dirty word when the person you are doing business with is getting it. But when you are getting it it is a great thing.

I have a feeling that most of us worked for very profitable companies while we were working and that is what got us here.

Originally Posted by 2BNTV (Post 427213)

Two excellent points!!!!!

I also like the OP that claimed they lived in a 55 plus community where the developers were not as good as the Morse family with the upkeep. hence, their property value had diminished.

Just sayin........

Originally Posted by SunCity (Post 427347)

yes, i said that. here we have over 600 homes that are for sale for less than $100,000. it's a nice Del Webb community but things haven't been kept up. we have nice pools and rec centers but nothing like you people in the villages have. our population here is around 47,000 and with all these homes decreasing in value, it's not good. i really don't think some of you people in the villages realize how good you have it.

Originally Posted by Indy-Guy (Post 427139)

Would someone let me know how much money you have to have before they label you as GREEDY?

It seems to me the answer is when people make more money than the person who is calling someone greedy has.

If the Morse family about 20% into this project had gone belly-up we would not be having this conversation or even talkofthevillages and 80% of us would not be living here also people around here would be saying the Morse family should have ran their business better. I am very thankful that they were successful. I am sure that there were times when the Morse family did not think that this thing was going to fly but it did.

Profit is only a dirty word when the person you are doing business with is getting it. But when you are getting it it is a great thing.

I have a feeling that most of us worked for very profitable companies while we were working and that is what got us here.

Originally Posted by Taj44 (Post 426486)

Why should we have to pay higher prices at grocery stores here just because they happen to be golf cart accessible? They have a terrific market here - 80,000 + retired people guarantees a pretty good profit even if they keep their prices what they should be. And I do expect if Morse wasn't charging premium rents, and taking a cut of profits, our prices at the local stores would be lower.

Originally Posted by eweissenbach (Post 427231)

You are right, of course, but I think this misses the point. I have many friends who own, or owned, successful businesses or were officers of large companies, and most of them are good, hororable people in my mind. Two of my children own a very successful business with over 100 employees, and they too are good, honorable people. My guess is that most people who are successful are exemplary individuals. That does not mean that ALL people who run successful, profitable enterprises are above reproach. It seems to me that the people that have decided they don't like the developers have come to that conclusion based on what they have read about their actions, and the lawsuits they have been entwined in, and not on the mere fact of their success or their wealth. It seems that they are rebuffed on the basis that they are jealous, which some may be, but it seems to me that most have legitimate concerns about the ethics of the developers. Again, most don't seem to be attacking the development or the lifestyle that many want to vigerously defend, and it seems to me to be silly to suggest, as some have done, that they leave.

Originally Posted by mikeod (Post 427359)

...I think what bothers some people is the history of selling properties to the community as we transition from developer controlled to resident controlled. The transfer of facilities north of 466 was done at a premium price out of line with appraisals of the properties. The bonds being investigate by the IRS seem to also be a windfall for the developer. These things create a cloud of doubt/suspicion that, for some people, diminishes their enjoyment of the lifestyle. That leads to a hope, but not a confidence, that buying here was the best choice.

For me, having looked at places on the left coast to retire, I think I made the right decision moving here. Time will tell.