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Talk of The Villages Florida (https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/)
-   The Villages, Florida, General Discussion (https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/villages-florida-general-discussion-73/)
-   -   New Gate to be placed. Wall will be removed. (https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/villages-florida-general-discussion-73/new-gate-placed-wall-will-removed-85263/)

redwitch 08-14-2013 08:12 AM
Hope this is a true resolution and not just a smoke screen so that the wall will stay up long enough to preclude loss of any possible easement rights.

Since someone (a district?) will be purchasing the property from Morse, can we expect the usual over-inflated value such as has been done with the rec centers? Sure hope not.

Sorry to sound so cynical but this has left a very bad taste in my mouth and something being "proposed" is not quite the same is something being truly done.

champion6 08-14-2013 08:27 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by redwitch (Post 725807)
Since someone (a district?) will be purchasing the property from Morse, can we expect the usual over-inflated value such as has been done with the rec centers?
The article says the developer will donate the home site on Paradise Drive to the district government.

blueash 08-14-2013 08:33 AM
The strange sentence in the newspaper says that
"The VHA proposed solution is a compromise reached after hearing the various concerns of residents and meeting with both the district and the developer."

This seems to say that Mr. Gottschalk or members of the VHA met with Mr. Morse (or his representatives). I also read it that there were proposals and counter proposals which resulted in a compromise. I await Mr. Gottschalk's report to the VHA of what he was told, why suddenly after 20 years there were liability concerns which are somehow alleviated by a different kind of gate which will still allow carts to drive across "private property" (which private property, his or someone else's) and why if a better gate was a solution for the developer's concerns why that wasn't the original design change and why was there no public notice and even perhaps (forgive the thought) an opportunity for public input. I look forward to seeing what role the local governments may have had if in fact this wall went up without a permit in the decision to have it come done. And how quickly it comes down.

graciegirl 08-14-2013 08:42 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by redwitch (Post 725807)
Hope this is a true resolution and not just a smoke screen so that the wall will stay up long enough to preclude loss of any possible easement rights.

Since someone (a district?) will be purchasing the property from Morse, can we expect the usual over-inflated value such as has been done with the rec centers? Sure hope not.

Sorry to sound so cynical but this has left a very bad taste in my mouth and something being "proposed" is not quite the same is something being truly done.
.

I will bet my best Sunday hat, this will work out fine and be history in no time.

ROCKETMAN 08-14-2013 08:50 AM
Who are the outsiders
 
The comment in the article in the paper mentions outsiders coming in this gate to use our facilities. Other than stonecrest, what outsiders are they talking about? Also other than the championship courses which at times they pay double to play, you need a pass to use our facilities. Restaurants I am sure welcome outsiders. Everyone who has been here for a while knows the vha is the developers newsletter similar to the sun. The only useful info in their publication is the open forum. The poa got millions of dollars from the developer but had to go to court to get it. Fruitland park will think long and hard about doubling it's population under the developers arrangements. Maybe he wants a wall between where the villages will end and fruitland park other residents live.:bigbow: PS Lakeside landing residents can drive their street legal golf carts and they are a lot closer than stonecrest.

TVMayor 08-14-2013 09:04 AM
Everybody has access to all roads in TV by car because they are public roads. The area outside of the “The Wall” is open to Stonecrest AKA Everybody. So everybody can go every place but everybody can not pass thru the new gate to spend money at TV restaurants and businesses. Judging by the history of closed restaurants in SS everybody’s support is needed. Is Mr Big looking for more empty buildings?????

bob47 08-14-2013 09:11 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by EdV (Post 725796)
What an incredibly ill-conceived solution. Using Gottschalk’s logic, allow me to restate his solution:

This VHA-proposed solution will allow TV residents unfettered access to non-resident facilities, while at the same time denying non-residents access to ‘our’ facilities.

Can any of you who have voiced your outrage at cart path closing and its egregious denial of access to public facilities honestly say that you think this is a fair and equitable solution to all those affected by the path closure?

Furthermore, Gottschalk’s accusations are blatantly false. The golf cart bridge over 441 was approved by the state and built and maintained by Morse commercial entities, not amenity funds. So Stonecrest residents can drive through Orange Blossom Hills, over the bridge and to all of the medical and retail facilities along the west side of 441 without ever setting foot on amenity supported paths or facilities. Who does he think he’s fooling?

Now if the reason for the wall being erected was concern for liability (an often used legal smokescreen), then why not propose to have Morse donate the homesite to the town of Lady Lake or Lake county, thereby making it an extension of Paradise Drive.

It may be that the developer is power hungry and greedy and controlling, and that contributed to this situation. However, the fact that you continue to stir the pot after a solution has been proposed that seems to address the concerns of all the affected residents makes me wonder about your motiviation.

Perhaps if you have such interest in how things are done in The Villages, you should make an investment in property here.

justjim 08-14-2013 09:20 AM
Sorry I missed the "battle" (road trip) but I read most of the posts. Lots of emotions displayed. Thanks to TOTV there was a place for opinions to be aired and voices to be heard. One thing that comes out of the whole crazy mess is that the VHA has the "ear" of the Developer. Of course, many knew that already. But this is not a "bad" thing either. POA has their place too----why I support both organizations. In this instance, like my mother use to say----" Jim, you catch more flies with sugar than you do vinegar".

Mikeod 08-14-2013 09:26 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by EdV (Post 725796)
What an incredibly ill-conceived solution. Using Gottschalk’s logic, allow me to restate his solution:

This VHA-proposed solution will allow TV residents unfettered access to non-resident facilities, while at the same time denying non-residents access to ‘our’ facilities.

Can any of you who have voiced your outrage at cart path closing and its egregious denial of access to public facilities honestly say that you think this is a fair and equitable solution to all those affected by the path closure?

Furthermore, Gottschalk’s accusations are blatantly false. The golf cart bridge over 441 was approved by the state and built and maintained by Morse commercial entities, not amenity funds. So Stonecrest residents can drive through Orange Blossom Hills, over the bridge and to all of the medical and retail facilities along the west side of 441 without ever setting foot on amenity supported paths or facilities. Who does he think he’s fooling?

Now if the reason for the wall being erected was concern for liability (an often used legal smokescreen), then why not propose to have Morse donate the homesite to the town of Lady Lake or Lake county, thereby making it an extension of Paradise Drive.
Ed,
I posted in the original thread that I have begun to think that this was done not to keep people out, but rather to support the prices charged and paid for commercial lots within TV. I suspect one of the selling points for those lots is golf cart access. If businesses can build outside of TV and still have cart access, leverage is lost. From a business standpoint, I can understand being upset that he has created a wonderful and unique community and that others are using its attractiveness in ways that may affect his overall plan negatively.

rp001 08-14-2013 09:38 AM
poa/vha
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by graciegirl (Post 725748)
I don't trust the POA either. I want a new one without bias.
I like the bias, as long as it is FOR the resident's interest and not a sounding board for the developer.

justjim 08-14-2013 10:02 AM
Good Point
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeod (Post 725884)
Ed,
I posted in the original thread that I have begun to think that this was done not to keep people out, but rather to support the prices charged and paid for commercial lots within TV. I suspect one of the selling points for those lots is golf cart access. If businesses can build outside of TV and still have cart access, leverage is lost. From a business standpoint, I can understand being upset that he has created a wonderful and unique community and that others are using its attractiveness in ways that may affect his overall plan negatively.
Mike: You make a good point. We may never know all of the reasons the "Wall" was put up. I know that some Stonecrest people are going to be disappointed by this arrangement of a gate for Villager residents to get out and in but they can't get in the gate. We will see how strong an issue they make this proposed gate. :ohdear:

linko38 08-14-2013 10:48 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ROCKETMAN (Post 725845)
The comment in the article in the paper mentions outsiders coming in this gate to use our facilities. Other than stonecrest, what outsiders are they talking about? Also other than the championship courses which at times they pay double to play, you need a pass to use our facilities. Restaurants I am sure welcome outsiders. Everyone who has been here for a while knows the vha is the developers newsletter similar to the sun. The only useful info in their publication is the open forum. The poa got millions of dollars from the developer but had to go to court to get it. Fruitland park will think long and hard about doubling it's population under the developers arrangements. Maybe he wants a wall between where the villages will end and fruitland park other residents live.:bigbow: PS Lakeside landing residents can drive their street legal golf carts and they are a lot closer than stonecrest.
I'd like to know what facilities they think Stonecrest residents are using? We spend money in the stores and restaurants. We go to the movies. It was a way to have fun with my Grandson when he visited. There are places we arent allowed to go such as katie Bells and such. No problem. And who ever questioned getting into Stonecrest is mistaken. You can drive around the side of Walmart. Past Sonic to the front gate if you go to Curves or the country club. I could care less. I feel no resentment toward people in the Villages however i have always felt it coming from the Villages people. Not the friendliest home town to me.

redwitch 08-14-2013 11:16 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by graciegirl (Post 725836)
.

I will bet my best Sunday hat, this will work out fine and be history in no time.
I'd put up my best Sunday hat, but it's a baseball cap and I refuse to risk losing it. :icon_wink:

So, sure hope you're right. However, if the bet is that you will eat said hat, it would almost be worth losing the access just to see what kind of meal you turn it into. YUMMMM

oot 08-14-2013 11:23 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by linko38 (Post 725950)
I'd like to know what facilities they think Stonecrest residents are using? We spend money in the stores and restaurants. We go to the movies. It was a way to have fun with my Grandson when he visited. There are places we arent allowed to go such as katie Bells and such. No problem. And who ever questioned getting into Stonecrest is mistaken. You can drive around the side of Walmart. Past Sonic to the front gate if you go to Curves or the country club. I could care less. I feel no resentment toward people in the Villages however i have always felt it coming from the Villages people. Not the friendliest home town to me.
You will always find those who don't agree - human nature I guess.

I know people who live in Stonecrest who have relatives who live in the Villages. They come visit here by car, and we usually go over there by car to visit them as well. It is quicker and much more comfortable than riding that trail!

I bet if some of those who live here actually met some of the people who live there, they might actually like them! The Villages vs Stonecrest war is just plain silly in my books.:boxing2: In the end, they are retirees, just like us!!!

linko38 08-14-2013 11:33 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by oot (Post 725982)
You will always find those who don't agree - human nature I guess.

I know people who live in Stonecrest who have relatives who live in the Villages. They come visit here by car, and we usually go over there by car to visit them as well. It is quicker and much more comfortable than riding that trail!

I bet if some of those who live here actually met some of the people who live there, they might actually like them! The Villages vs Stonecrest war is just plain silly in my books.:boxing2: In the end, they are retirees, just like us!!!
Exactly. I have friends who live in the Villages. My husband and I are not wealthy by any means. We would drive around admiring landscaping on our golf cart when the weather cooled down. It was a cheap and inexpensive way of enjoying life. The golf cart just added to the fun. I always rented a cart when I had company from the Villages to take people and show them around. Some people actually ended up renting in the Villages looking toward a future home purchase. I'm just really sad that this happened.


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