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JMintzer 04-24-2022 07:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimjamuser (Post 2088187)
That was a very good post. As to the "dumbing down of America"........I went to a VERY good PUBLIC school way back in the 60s. But thereafter Public schools were positioned by the rich and POWERFUL to FAIL. Everything goes back to tax policy and public schools are paid for by PROPERTY taxes. Who has the MOST PROPERTY....Why (?) surprise....... it is Rich people, who then manipulate the election of school boards - that then fight to lower costs, which causes bad public school outcomes. And thus the "dumbing down of America". Yes (!) correct, that is a major US problem today. We have many!
Lately, we have to fight even imagined problems. (also involving schools) (who knew schools had become s battleground). We are fighting culture wars conspiracy theories that are born in dark media places and by Putin's Russian trolls. Good luck LADY LIBERTY.....I hope you survive this CRUEL attack!

More Propaganda...

Laker14 04-25-2022 08:22 AM

There are two types of propaganda, the stuff you think is fact because it agrees with the propaganda you've decided is factual, and the stuff you recognize as propaganda, because it disagrees with what you believed before you heard it.
Unfortunately, all "news" falls into one of those two categories.
Or, put another way, freedom of the press means you get to choose which flavor of Kool-Aid you get to drink.

Stu from NYC 04-25-2022 08:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Laker14 (Post 2088463)
There are two types of propaganda, the stuff you think is fact because it agrees with the propaganda you've decided is factual, and the stuff you recognize as propaganda, because it disagrees with what you believed before you heard it.
Unfortunately, all "news" falls into one of those two categories.
Or, put another way, freedom of the press means you get to choose which flavor of Kool-Aid you get to drink.

Once upon a time the NY Times published all the news fit to print now it publishes all the news in a way they agree with.

Keefelane66 04-25-2022 09:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stu from NYC (Post 2088473)
Once upon a time the NY Times published all the news fit to print now it publishes all the news in a way they agree with.

Just because print news doesn’t agree with your opinion doesn’t mean it’s Fake News.
Deja Vu I remember the Supreme Court ruling during Watergate. They aren’t Facebook.

jdulej 04-25-2022 10:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stu from NYC (Post 2088473)
Once upon a time the NY Times published all the news fit to print now it publishes all the news in a way they agree with.

I hear this about the NYT a lot, but I've never seen any examples. Sure, they make mistakes, and usually own up to them, but in general they seem relatively honest to me. I'm referring to the actual news reports, not the opinion section which is, and should be, "opinionated".

I'd love to see some examples (beside the kid hassling and the Indian which I think they owned up to).

Stu from NYC 04-25-2022 10:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jdulej (Post 2088520)
I hear this about the NYT a lot, but I've never seen any examples. Sure, they make mistakes, and usually own up to them, but in general they seem relatively honest to me. I'm referring to the actual news reports, not the opinion section which is, and should be, "opinionated".

I'd love to see some examples (beside the kid hassling and the Indian which I think they owned up to).

I would but than it might be construed as political so not going to go there.

However will say this. If you think of their leanings and than read the news articles there is a major similarity.

jdulej 04-25-2022 11:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stu from NYC (Post 2088551)
I would but than it might be construed as political so not going to go there.

However will say this. If you think of their leanings and than read the news articles there is a major similarity.

Fair enough. I've been sent to the woodshed enough to be gun shy myself. What would be interesting though, if someone cares to give it a go, would be two news articles covering the same event. One from the times, one from a source considered to be of the opposite leaning but also a mainstream source of news. Then call out the skewed (left or right) parts from each source.
This supports my belief that you cannot get a true or fair picture of the "truth" without considering multiple sources.

jimjamuser 04-25-2022 11:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stu from NYC (Post 2088219)
Does appear we have a much different view on what is propaganda

As the great poet and philosopher Confucius once said, "One man's Propaganda is another man's Truth". Maybe the History books of the FUTURE will reveal which of us was correct.
.........Note.....Marine Le Pen loved Propaganda and V.Putin and that American guy..........And the French Ravens said, "NEVERMORE"!!!!!!

Laker14 04-25-2022 11:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimjamuser (Post 2088564)
As the great poet and philosopher Confucius once said, "One man's Propaganda is another man's Truth". Maybe the History books of the FUTURE will reveal which of us was correct.

depends upon who writes the history books.
History is as dependent upon who gets to do the editing as a news outlet is.

What gets left out of the writing is often more telling than what gets put in.

tvbound 04-25-2022 11:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jdulej (Post 2088562)
Fair enough. I've been sent to the woodshed enough to be gun shy myself. What would be interesting though, if someone cares to give it a go, would be two news articles covering the same event. One from the times, one from a source considered to be of the opposite leaning but also a mainstream source of news. Then call out the skewed (left or right) parts from each source.
This supports my belief that you cannot get a true or fair picture of the "truth" without considering multiple sources.


"This supports my belief that you cannot get a true or fair picture of the "truth" without considering multiple sources."

Agreed. All too many these days, are addicted to 'confirmation bias' and refuse to research and glean the real truth. That is the ugly side effect of professing fealty to a single viewpoint/person/group.

jimjamuser 04-25-2022 11:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MartinSE (Post 2088235)
And I don't think that is an accident.

Our intelligence services have been telling us for years, that Russian trolls are bombarding all our social media from both sides, intentionally stoking arguments and spreading conspiracies.

Some people relate to and accept one set, others accept the other side, and a fight breaks out.

Once upon a time we fought over polices over a beer. Now we fight about jewish space lasers online.

H....A....Y...........M....A......N....... MY Jewish Space Laser can kick your Laser's butt.

jimjamuser 04-25-2022 11:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JMintzer (Post 2088290)
If anyone knows propaganda, it's you! You post it daily...

Sounds like a little 3rd-grade child's statement, "No, YOU do too!

jimjamuser 04-25-2022 12:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JMintzer (Post 2088291)
So you're for forced sterilization? And you like Wagner... I'm sensing a trend...

But as much as I'd like to have a "boys day out" with you, please keep my junk out of the conversation...

To paraphrase Will Smith, "Keep my Junk Outta' your M*****-F****** Mouth!"

I was using EXAGGERATION to prove my point, which apparently I need to SPELL out. Biologists say that each animal species in a given location has a "HOLDING CAPACITY" (look it up)! My point is that humans in the US are above their HOLDING CAPACITY (probably by about 70 million people). I am NOT suggesting that 70 million people should "drink spiked Kool-aide" or march to the Ocean like Lemmings.
........Someone famous once wrote that WARS and PESTULANCE control the human population (when they exceed their holding capacity).
.........Now, just look at the recent world news. We HAVE (some think that it is over, past tense ...had) a worldwide Pandemic going on now......look at Shanghai, China (well past its holding capacity)! Now look at the WAR situation......many Military experts believe that we have already BEGUN WW3
.........Dictatorships reach out greedily for more resources and POWER, never satisfied!
..........I am not speaking about what IS (because what is ....is bad) I am idealistically speaking to our better angels about what COULD be! So, go ahead, call me a DREAMER......an outlier, a schemer.

jimjamuser 04-25-2022 12:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Laker14 (Post 2088463)
There are two types of propaganda, the stuff you think is fact because it agrees with the propaganda you've decided is factual, and the stuff you recognize as propaganda, because it disagrees with what you believed before you heard it.
Unfortunately, all "news" falls into one of those two categories.
Or, put another way, freedom of the press means you get to choose which flavor of Kool-Aid you get to drink.

Well put!

jimjamuser 04-25-2022 12:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keefelane66 (Post 2088493)
Just because print news doesn’t agree with your opinion doesn’t mean it’s Fake News.
Deja Vu I remember the Supreme Court ruling during Watergate. They aren’t Facebook.

Facebook would be fine with some guard rails. and without Zuckerdingaling, who is a Dictator. The original concept was good, but it has the power to do "bad" things also.

jimjamuser 04-25-2022 12:41 PM

Propaganda originating from overseas trolls has branded the NYT as "fake news" through repetition and repetition by disgraced US leaders - such that some of the confused, chaos-loving unwashed Americans also echo it!

jimjamuser 04-25-2022 12:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jdulej (Post 2088562)
Fair enough. I've been sent to the woodshed enough to be gun shy myself. What would be interesting though, if someone cares to give it a go, would be two news articles covering the same event. One from the times, one from a source considered to be of the opposite leaning but also a mainstream source of news. Then call out the skewed (left or right) parts from each source.
This supports my belief that you cannot get a true or fair picture of the "truth" without considering multiple sources.

TRUTH is harder to determine today than it was before social media. Facebook software is designed to keep each user on for as long as possible. They do this with software that LEADS them 1st to where the user WANTS to go - and THEN leads them down a rabbit hole to dark misinformation, propaganda, and conspiracy theory.
........Personally I HATE Zuckerdork and would NEVER be on Facebook!

MartinSE 04-25-2022 12:57 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by jimjamuser (Post 2088593)
I was using EXAGGERATION to prove my point, which apparently I need to SPELL out. Biologists say that each animal species in a given location has a "HOLDING CAPACITY" (look it up)! My point is that humans in the US are above their HOLDING CAPACITY (probably by about 70 million people). I am NOT suggesting that 70 million people should "drink spiked Kool-aide" or march to the Ocean like Lemmings.
........Someone famous once wrote that WARS and PESTULANCE control the human population (when they exceed their holding capacity).
.........Now, just look at the recent world news. We HAVE (some think that it is over, past tense ...had) a worldwide Pandemic going on now......look at Shanghai, China (well past its holding capacity)! Now look at the WAR situation......many Military experts believe that we have already BEGUN WW3
.........Dictatorships reach out greedily for more resources and POWER, never satisfied!
..........I am not speaking about what IS (because what is ....is bad) I am idealistically speaking to our better angels about what COULD be! So, go ahead, call me a DREAMER......an outlier, a schemer.

Here is a chart of world population over the past few thousand years. Prior to date at the start of this chart it is pretty much flat line.

Agriculture started around 10,000 years ago.

If you look at the chart, from 10,000 BCE to 8,000 BCE the population growth was essentially zero - very little. Around 8,000 BCE (I think) agriculture started and you can see a slight flow occurring. After that I think the chart is self explanatory.

From what I have read that is because that is the level of population the world could sustain with only hunter/gatherers. Once agriculture started, there is evidence that agriculture allow our brains to grow (more calories, it is needs more as it got bigger) and allow for people to start living longer and reproducing. More of the spawn survived, since they had more food - from there it is a normal exponential growth curve. With the past couple hundred years on the liftoff portion.

JMintzer 04-25-2022 01:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimjamuser (Post 2088586)
Sounds like a little 3rd-grade child's statement, "No, YOU do too!

Sorry, but you're talking about your own rants again (just trying to live up to your expectations...)

JMintzer 04-25-2022 02:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimjamuser (Post 2088593)
I was using EXAGGERATION to prove my point, which apparently I need to SPELL out. Biologists say that each animal species in a given location has a "HOLDING CAPACITY" (look it up)! My point is that humans in the US are above their HOLDING CAPACITY (probably by about 70 million people). I am NOT suggesting that 70 million people should "drink spiked Kool-aide" or march to the Ocean like Lemmings.
........Someone famous once wrote that WARS and PESTULANCE control the human population (when they exceed their holding capacity).
.........Now, just look at the recent world news. We HAVE (some think that it is over, past tense ...had) a worldwide Pandemic going on now......look at Shanghai, China (well past its holding capacity)! Now look at the WAR situation......many Military experts believe that we have already BEGUN WW3
.........Dictatorships reach out greedily for more resources and POWER, never satisfied!
..........I am not speaking about what IS (because what is ....is bad) I am idealistically speaking to our better angels about what COULD be! So, go ahead, call me a DREAMER......an outlier, a schemer.

I don't need you to SPELL out anything. You can't SPELL!

To the rest of your rant, seek help...

jimjamuser 04-26-2022 02:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JMintzer (Post 2088639)
I don't need you to SPELL out anything. You can't SPELL!

To the rest of your rant, seek help...

There is NO denying that we (the world) are currently embroiled in a toxic stew of war, pestilence, and Global Warming. At a minimum, I am being helpful by pointing this out and how it affects everyone here locally. Many are using this forum to restrict ideas and pretend that things are just "peachy".

Stu from NYC 04-26-2022 06:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimjamuser (Post 2089043)
There is NO denying that we (the world) are currently embroiled in a toxic stew of war, pestilence, and Global Warming. At a minimum, I am being helpful by pointing this out and how it affects everyone here locally. Many are using this forum to restrict ideas and pretend that things are just "peachy".

You do know that the earth has experienced many episodes of global warming I trust.

And mankind has had lots of wars in its history. And do not even get me started on the pestilence.

JMintzer 04-26-2022 06:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimjamuser (Post 2089043)
There is NO denying that we (the world) are currently embroiled in a toxic stew of war, pestilence, and Global Warming. At a minimum, I am being helpful by pointing this out and how it affects everyone here locally. Many are using this forum to restrict ideas and pretend that things are just "peachy".

https://c.tenor.com/k2wAIzvBouMAAAAd...de-the-nba.gif

thevillages2013 04-26-2022 06:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill14564 (Post 2084930)
Which definition would you prefer, Merriam-Webster's or the Code of Federal Regulations (1973)?

Woke? It would seem you don't know the meaning of that word either.

You quote government regulations from 1973. I rest my case. Also I know what woke means and you just may fit that definition

thevillages2013 04-26-2022 06:46 PM

OMG I can’t believe this thread is still alive! Good behavior all! ( I guess)

Bill14564 04-26-2022 07:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thevillages2013 (Post 2084927)
Hey Mr Smart guy you might want to check your definition of immediate family. If you are so woke you should know the definition. It may have changed a little since the 1940’s:popcorn:

Quote:

Originally Posted by thevillages2013 (Post 2089098)
You quote government regulations from 1973. I rest my case. Also I know what woke means and you just may fit that definition

///

MartinSE 04-26-2022 08:00 PM

I thought we were not supposed to address replies to other posters, but to the entire thread. Hmmm....

MartinSE 04-26-2022 08:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stu from NYC (Post 2089087)
You do know that the earth has experienced many episodes of global warming I trust.

And mankind has had lots of wars in its history. And do not even get me started on the pestilence.

No nikes before, and more than 99% of all species that every lived are now extinct, and more than 500 species have become extinct in the past 100 years do to mans affects on their habitats.

Just saying. The earth will be here long after man has gone, whether that is next year or in a thousand years.

Stu from NYC 04-26-2022 08:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MartinSE (Post 2089110)
No nikes before, and more than 99% of all species that every lived are now extinct, and more than 500 species have become extinct in the past 100 years do to mans affects on their habitats.

Just saying. The earth will be here long after man has gone, whether that is next year or in a thousand years.

Wonder how many species became extinct before we took over?

fdpaq0580 04-26-2022 09:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stu from NYC (Post 2089114)
Wonder how many species became extinct before we took over?

Oh, at least 7 or 8, I would guess.
😏

OrangeBlossomBaby 04-26-2022 09:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stu from NYC (Post 2089114)
Wonder how many species became extinct before we took over?

And how long it took for that many to become extinct before we took over.

We can't prevent the planet from dying. That's what planets do. They die. But we can make the planet as livable as possible, for as long as possible, while we are inhabiting it. Or at least try to contribute as little as possible to its inevitable self-destruction.

fdpaq0580 04-26-2022 09:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OrangeBlossomBaby (Post 2089125)
And how long it took for that many to become extinct before we took over.

We can't prevent the planet from dying. That's what planets do. They die. But we can make the planet as livable as possible, for as long as possible, while we are inhabiting it. Or at least try to contribute as little as possible to its inevitable self-destruction.

That would require taking drastic changes to control population, and that is unlikely to happen.


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