Did he lie or did he fall to correct a prosecutor’s lie?

"He then drilled down on the prosecutor’s implicit claim, that an investigator can lie to a suspect, and if the suspect doesn’t correct them, they’re guilty of perjury, even if they’ve made contrary claims elsewhere in the interview. “Can a failure to correct — what you just described, he should have corrected … can the failure to correct then form in part or in whole a basis for perjury?” Sound asked. "

From what I have read on these boards, most Villagers cannot agree on what values are in line with most Villagers.

Miller still violated the campaign finance laws and gift laws. He paid fines for each of these transgressions which were not overturned by the court.

I thought there were two different cases! One was the sunshine law which his partner admitted guilt. I have not seen the status of this case so may still be an open issue. What he was convicted of was "lying under oath". He was exonerated by a panel of judges due to the fact that he did later tell the truth. The perjury case, I believe, had nothing to do with his "partner" admitting guilt or the Sunshine Law case.

The perjury charge was due to denying that conversations occurred that violated the sunshine laws. Both said no conversations occurred, both were arrested for perjury based on those denials, Search took a plea deal that granted him immunity and expungement of the perjury charge.

After this incident, is there anyone who would want to run for office in Sumter County as an outsider?

You're embarrassing yourself, at this point you should stop digging.

His partner admitted guilt because his wife was sick and he didn't have the time or resources to fight in court....... so he took the path of least resistance.

Think so.

:1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

Orin Miller
 

Very well said Al W. I think some people say things just to push buttons. I think that Mr Sage is not up to date about Mr Millers case.

There has been another election since the appointment of Don Wiley He won his seat

Conviction overturned=wrongly convicted=not guilty. Give him back his job...if he wants it.

It's sad and scary what has happened to our judicial system.

He is probably wiped out financially trying to defend himself and will be traumatized the rest of his life.

The key word is "WAS". He isn't anymore.

Good post and puts it into another perspective, I those two had a very expensive.
 

Good post and puts it into another perspective, I those two had a very expensive learning experience. Welcome to Florida politics; at least they didn't steal any money.

Regardless of your opinions my point is why is State Government meddling in local politics in the first place. Many of us came to Florida from another State where State Government (specifically the Governor) does not have the power, nor the inclination, to meddle in local politics and issues. From my experience, removal of a county Commissioner or other duly elected officials is left to local government officials. But In Florida, it appears to be different. This happens not only in Sumter county but also in other counties in the State of Florida even before a local elected official has the opportunity for due process. This borders on an authoritarian State government IMHO.

Read The Opinion
 

Anyone posting on this topic should first read the Court's opinion.

The prosecutor focused on two statements Miller made in response to leading questions asked by the investigators. At the time, the investigators had Miller's phone records and knew that he had made phone calls to Search. While Miller answered in the negative to the leading questions, in other answers, he admitted to making phone calls in the time frame about which he was asked, but was uncertain, if not evasive, as to the dates or the topics.

In many jurisdictions, when the investigators already know a fact, such as the phone records they had at the time of the interview, Miller's answers would not be material and not prosecutable. However, as the Court explains in a footnote, Florida law is different. You can easily read into the fact that the court even discussed the issue of "materiality", that the Justices were not happy at the conduct of the investigators and recognized that they were working to get Miller to commit perjury and not to discover the true facts.

Not being able to reverse the conviction on the issue of "materiality", the Court examined Miller's false statements in the "entire context" of his many answers. Doing so, they ruled that the many contradictory answers, taken as a whole and not individually, were insufficient to support a conviction for perjury.

As a practicing attorney for 40 years who was both a Federal and State prosecutor, I fully agree with the Court's opinion. In a criminal investigation, the goal of an investigator should be to determine if a crime was committed and not to cause a crime, perjury, to be committed. Unfortunately, the latter has become a dominant tactic of many investigators and prosecutors. In simple terms, it is: " I don't know that we can build a strong enough case against him. Instead, let's see if we can get him to lie". Frankly, this is not the way our investigators and prosecutors should go about their business.

I am not for or against Miller and Search. In this case, the investigators should have had the phone records before them at the time of the interview; shown them to Miller; asked him if he made the phone calls; and, then, asked what was discussed in those calls. If Miller was evasive or, foolishly, denied making the many calls, he would have been convicted at trial for a violation of the "Sunshine" laws with near-certainty.

He seemed to get a raw deal. That does not sound like why the Sunshine Law was written with how the authorities used it in the Oren Miller case.

Spirit and intent is all important when interpreting law. Sometimes it gets lost in the courtroom just like objectivity in the news.

3rd Option
 

I should have mentioned that Miller had a third option if confronted with the telephone records, that of "taking the 5th".

Interviewers love to use the tactic of "just having a simple discussion" with a "target' on whom, like Miller, they have evidence in hand of a crime having been committed.

I'm all for catching and prosecuting anyone who violates the law. At the same time, I deplore the modern approach of investigators actively working to have a "target" commit perjury.

I'll add some real fuel to this fire. All Trump supporters should remember the shameful way the FBI treated General Michael Flynn, which is the same tactic used by the Florida investigators on Miller. Again, I'm neither for or against Trump. I'm merely pointing out that this tactic is being misused all too often.

Why specifically these people?

As I remember, Mr. Search (his partner) agreed to testify but did not admit to doing anything wrong.

It casts "Sunshine" on how laws are used when the wrong entities are displeased !

I have the feeling you are correct and in the MUCH broader topic of our whole political system. People of honor, ethics, and sincere desire to sacrifice for others (think of our forefathers who gave up lucrative careers, and suffered financially because in their absence doing the people's business, forming a constitution to free us once and for all, their families could not plant and harvest sufficient crops as they had previously done. They (the first politicians) had no private jets, they had to take their own horses (a further blow to those they left at home on the farm), they had no "hotel" allowance, no private chef and dining room for politicians, no gyms, hair salons, drivers, etc. WE, the people, from that point on decided there was no limit to what we bestowed on our own new royalty, and even today we keep adding "perks", more retirement, the best of the best medical care, luxury travel abroad in the best hotels on "junkets" to encourage trade, and so on. And then there is the whole system of lobbyist dollars. And yet, so many of us are puzzled that the available "pool" of true statesmen, true leaders, is such a filthy cesspool with little for us to choose from ? When you look over the whole panorama, local, state, to nation, judges, representative, commissioners and mayors, do we really propose only the best of the best, those with unbending integrity, true devotion to others rather and self ?

I'm guessing nobody's going to be removed from office allowing Mr Miller to replace them. Most likely what's going to happen is Mr Miller is going to end up with several million dollars in his pocket of taxpayer dollars to just go away. It'll be hush hush under the table and Mr Miller will get the last laugh.

:what::what::what:
What are you smoking?

I will respond to most of the comments. So many of them are so far off based I just shake my head.

Oren went before the Ethics Commissioner because he thought the case was going to be dismissed as they didn't have any evidence of wrongdoing, therefore he didn't cash in the GoFundMe funds. Since the money was not in his possession, he did not consider it his money. In fact, the rules are that money is not considered his until he takes it. Darrell Chandler reported him, an employ of T & D. When it was reported, they asked him to also report all funds by individuals over $100. The problem was he missed one person because that person gave him the money in small increments. (that is the money that wasn't reported) The commission immediately stated he was on perjury charges in Marion County; therefore, he was a liar. He was charged $3,000 for this. His attorney said he could fight it, but then it would have been more attorney's fees. Keep in mind, he wouldn't have had to have to GoFundMe if it hadn't had been for the "conduit" complaint that SHOULD have gone to the ethics commission as well. However, it went to the State Attorney.

Next....

Three people filed an ethics complaint about me being a conduit between Gary and Oren. This complaint completely bypassed the ethics commission and went straight to the State Attorney. And this complaint went straight to Gladson. That's a lot of power for an ethics complaint about me being a conduit. They sent letters to them that they wanted to interview them. Oren called them several times asking when they wanted to speak to him, and they said they would let him know. They sent out a subpoena. WTH?

He went into the interview thinking they were asking about me talking to him and Gary. He was aware they had the phone records. He told them they rode together once a month to a board they were on. They talked. He wouldn't remember what they talked about, (do you remember your conversations?) They had nothing on the ethics complaint because why would I be a conduit if they were talking to each other and why would they be talking to each other if I was a conduit?

Gary took a plea deal. Oren was offered a plea deal and refused to take it. He didn't do anything wrong, and he wasn't going to say he did when he didn't.

Gary was disposed and testified that they did not talk about business on the phone. They disposed several of the investigators that were in the room, they testified that Oren did not perjure himself. The judge did not allow that testimony in court. Said it was hearsay.

The state had to change their tactics. So, now they said he lied about when the phone calls ended.

Someone goes to jail for 75 days, 100 hours of community service at the dump, and 3 years of probation, all because they couldn't remember when phone calls stopped. He never said there weren't any phone calls. Even though the Daily Sun said he denied the phone calls.

Gary testified that they did not talk about business on the phone. That was supposed to be what the case was about. He was the only one who would know, and he said they did not.

There are no charges or investigations pending. Just a lot of misinformation.

That is all I have to say about that. Haters are going to hate no matter what. As to his reputation. People are treating him very well. Most people know what this was all about and welcome Oren with open arms.

I for one hate that he went through that. He is a hero in my book. He stood for right even with the Daily Sun writing hateful untruths about him every day.

We have not been able to talk about it for a year. Now you know.

There is this.

Revolt in The Villages Ended With a 72-Year-Old Political Prisoner

If there is a lawsuit, I hope the Sunshine laws show all contact between the state’s lawyers and any outside parties.

Who is "We"??

- :confused:

Husband and wife ( or at least SO)

Should never been charged. Appellate court said so. Little hitler lost on this one

The Fox is O's wife???

Rail roaded in the first place. Knows he was right and never quit the fight to get justice. Could or would u do the same??

And this...

The Intercept - InfluenceWatch - InfluenceWatch

Or similarly close.

:shrug:

How about this, he was charged and then found guilty by a jury of his peers. Then there must have been enough proof that what he did broke the law and now a judge says all 12 of the jurors was wrong. These people broke the law and suffer the consequences of their actions.