Last night about 730 pm there was a deputy sitting near the maintenance entrance to Turtle Mound, watching golf cart trail stop sign area near putting range. I think it is great. If you break the law and you get caught--your own fault. Not lucky or unlucky. IMHO

I agree. Maybe we should design new stop signs that say:
STOP
IF YOU WANT TO. :a20:

And you can prove this?
I think the jury is against your rolling through stop signs.

So if someone does a slow roll through as stop sign and there are no police in the area are they not lucky?

No, I can't prove it and we are not in a court of law.

Yes, juries might be against a rolling stop in a specific case. I would think that that might depend on the jury's own driving habits.

But, we keep going back and forth on this thread between what is safe and what is the law. I agree 100% that the letter of the law says that we must come to a complete stop at every stop sign. I don't agree that there is anything dangerous about a very slow rolling stop in many cases. There are situations, by the way, where I do come to a full stop. If I don't have a clear view as I am approaching the intersection or if I'm in a busy traffic area I will come to a complete stop.
I live in a neighborhood where there is very, very little traffic, 20 mph speed limits, houses that are set well back from the intersections, with little or in most cases, nothing to obstruct your view, and a lot of stop signs. By the time I'm approaching the intersection, I have slowed down to under 10 mph. In most cases, I can see 1/4 to 1/2 mile up and down the street that I am about to cross or turn on to. I don't have to come to a complete stop to see that it is perfectly safe. I honestly believe that I'm not doing anything dangerous and I think that if any of you were in the cart, golf cart or bicycle with me you'd agree.
But I can see that we different opinions on this and we're never going to agree so this thread should really come to an end.

I wasn't trying to be a smarta** By "jury," I meant the general opinion of the forum on this topic. I agree with you, there will be no consensus.

Flashing Red Light
 

I have almost been hit a couple of times both driving and walking at the corner by City Fire at Lake Sumter Landing. I am shocked at how many car and cart drivers barely even slow down, mush less stop, at the flashing red light whether it is their turn to proceed or not.

I may be wrong.I recall it happening one other time:)
The sheriff's dept can't enforce any violations there it's private property not county, municipal or state property

Yup, I think you're right.
There are people who follow the law.
And there are people who break laws according to personal preference.
And never the twain shall meet.

Perhaps someone should map out the stop signs where there is an unobstructed view, and petition the appropriate authority to change the stop signs to "YIELD" signs. Before you suggest that I do it----I'm not in TV right now.:ho:

I don't think that I'd like to live in a world that's as black and white as that.

One has to pick one's blacks and whites. Hopefully they're all legal.

Wow! Things can become VERY complicated when the law becomes subjective.

:

::bigbow:: I think we all sometimes do rolling stops , exceed the speed limit, etc..... but here is the point... When we do these things ( no matter our logic or reasoning) IT IS AGAINST THE LAW. If we get CAUGHT we must pay the penalty because we were wrong. We broke the law. A police officer is not there to judge whether what you did might have worked out ok due to circumstances. The officer can only judge if what you did was within or without the perimeters of the law. It is not really a subjective call for that officer.

Police officers make subjective calls when it comes to speeding.

Would you still have the attitude you stated in your post "IT IS AGAINST THE LAW. If we get CAUGHT we must pay the penalty because we were wrong. We broke the law" if you got a ticket for going 36 mph on Buena Visa Blvd?

Or how about if you went 21 mph in a roundabout?

What about if you got that ticket for going 36 mph on Buena Vista while other cars were passing you and they did not get stopped by the police? After all, you did break the law.

If your auto insurance premium goes up as a result of that speeding ticket, would you be OK with that also since, after all, you did commit a crime?

Yes, if I got caught doing those things I would pay without complaint because it was wrong. Have I done all of the above..of course. As your mother told you, just because Johnny jumped off the roof, would you? I am constantly passed on 466 while doing 50 mph. Yes, I know the speed limit is 45 but if I get stopped, I am guilty of exceeding the speed limit.

Officers make judgement calls all the time. I've been stopped for speeding about a half a dozen times in my life and I only got on ticket. I think that mainly it was because I didn't have any prior violations and I was very nice about the whole thing. I always admitted that I was going a bit too fast and that I lost my concentration for a bit and I apologized. In almost every case, the officer let me off.
Where I come from the law states that if you are the second or third car in line at a stop sign, you only have to stop once. You may proceed without stopping if there are no other cars in the intersection. I did that down here once right in front of an officer. I was surprised when he pulled me over. I explained the Massachusetts law and that I had just moved down here. He just said to me, "Well, that's not the law down here. Don't do it again." I thank him and was on my way. The officer made a reasonable judgement call.

Being polite to an officer and not having priors pretty much always pays off. I spent many years in Massachusetts and drove a company owned truck. Only contact I had with the troopers were usually pleasant and sometimes funny.

Humm You seem to have a history of being pulled over

So if you get stopped but don't get a ticket, that officer is using good judgement? If you get a ticket it was NOT a reasonable judgement call? I'm not saying officers do not or should not make judgement calls. I am saying that when you get the ticket, you should not question their judgement because you did break the law.

I'm 63 years old. I've been driving since I was 16 and have been pulled over about 6 or 7 times in my life.
Yea, that's quite a history.

Shouldn't have you learned after the first time

I seem to remember 2 speeding tickets for me. Much of Nevada did not have speed limits when I was doing a lot of driving in that state. Lots of other places I have been I did not drive all that much preferring to use mass transit like with the SF Bay area and the Twin Cities.

From Mass. Law Updates, May 23, 2011 Massachusetts Law Updates: Can the second and third cars in line proceed through a stop sign?

This is one of the most common questions we get. People who learned to drive in Massachusetts some years ago were taught that it was OK, and don't quite believe that the law (MGL c.89, s.9) says otherwise. Happily, the Boston Globe printed a column this weekend, Some old habits aren’t right, or safe, anymore, that spells it out and quotes the experts. So, although it may have been the law "in the 1960s and early 1970s," now every car must stop when they are "at the point nearest the intersecting roadway."

Near the Belvedere Library quite recently as I was going towards CR466 I counted 4 golf carts that either stopped very fast or did not stop at all as I was moving slowly toward them. Three just pedaled right on through without stopping. Cars do these frequently coming off of Churchill Downs towards the Library usually forcing me to brake for them.

Ah HAH. This explains a lot. In Ohio there is NO fudging but I recall getting into sort of a heated discussion with RussBoston on this forum years ago, the only disagreement I ever had with him and it was about Stop Signs.

Jim..Dr. Boogie is to me the epitome of a law follower. Letter of the law follower, so I kept reading this somewhat puzzled. Thank you CFrance. How very interesting. How did you know to look???

In Ohio, stopping for less than three seconds is called a "curtsy".

Vindicated! Note it says it was legal back in the '60s and early '70s, but not since then.

Whether we want to admit it or not, we all break laws. Some folks litter. Some folks speed. Some do rolling stops. Some refuse to wear seat belts. Some drink and drive. And so on and so forth. Most of us take our lumps when caught.

I admit that I love to drive fast when conditions permit. I've been pulled over for speeding. Heck, I've even slowed down so the officer could safely catch me. I've been lectured for going too fast but rarely received a ticket because I was actually driving safely (two tickets).

As I said earlier, TV has too many stop signs. Some make absolutely no sense. In many instances, yield signs make a lot more sense. In some instances, nothing makes the most sense.

If people would use common sense and automatically slow down when coming to an intersection, actually pay attention when driving and drive appropriately for conditions, we would probably have less traffic signs and laws and definitely have less accidents.

So, could all of you perfect, absolute law-abiding folks get off your high horse and admit that you break laws as well when you feel it is warranted?

Over 100 posts discussing with one person whether he/she should obey the law as written. Says a lot about this country, in my opinion.

I do not think, even in the age of all these "rights", that we have the "right" to pick and choose what laws we think we should obey.

I HONESTLY and with great respect and affection to YOU, try very hard not too and don't think I do. I am a first born and I am for the rules. They protect the folks without good common sense. Don't have a high horse or a low horse. Don't feel superior, just puzzled that people don't stop at stop signs. (and I swear at them under my breath)

I can honestly say in my 75 years, I know of nobody who only follows laws that THEY feel are warranted. THAT is quite scary. I dislike a lot of laws, but we are a country of LAWS and NOT MEN.

I disagree about yield signs replacing stop signs. Look at how many people disregard yield signs at the roundabouts. the people who roll through stop signs would be bounding through yield signs. Me First/I Can Beat You Out kind of attitude.

I don't think anyone has said they do not ever break laws or rules. I know what my point is and that is....yes, we all occasionally break laws. However, if we get a ticket we can't complain because you knew that risk was involved when you did it.

Nobody's perfect. LOL It's been my experience in life dealing with most other people and I never thought of it before but as a fictional television character says, "Everybody lies". It took me a few years to realize this.:laugh:

From my perspective, I saw no one on this thread claiming perfection or sainthood.

I saw a lot of posts trying to justify continually violating laws that they do not happen to agree with.

A BIG BIG difference between the two in my opinion. Of course we all err, but we do not all proclaim to know better than whatever law being discussed.

Saying you do not stop, because YOU do not think it necessary...or to say YOU speed because in YOUR opinion that is fine is a lot different from making a mistake.

Good post Rags. :agree:

I would have to assume these "letter of the law" followers are the same folks with their cruise control set at the exact speed limit and cruising in the left lane on the turnpike... taking 20 miles to pass a truck. After all, we'd all be breaking a law to pass them, right?

We have so many laws, because people are not capable of thinking for themselves or being reasonable in their actions.

For the record, I see nothing wrong with rolling through stop signs in a neighborhood, where there is almost no traffic. In my neighborhood, less than 10% of the people "completely" stop for the stop sign, when there is no traffic.

Boogie....I'm with you; no harm, no foul

"We have so many laws, because people are not capable of thinking for themselves or being reasonable in their actions."

This, to me, is the reason for just about ALL laws !!!

And " no harm, no foul" UNTIL something happens and that "foul" if serious enough will generate all the "why dont they enforce the law" talk.

Why we cannot accept that laws are there FOR us.......and if everyone felt they should make the decision what law to follow, we got problems.

at last a poster that makes sense !!!!! im with you memason !!

Sainthood not so much but I read of post of those who believe police officers never make mistakes or randomly select from a pack of cars for a speeding ticket on a busy interstate. They do it time to time because they are humans too. They make mistakes too. Believing this is a fair and balanced world is like believing in the Easter bunny. I've been pulled over a time or two so I guess that makes me a bad person. I can live with that. It doesn 't bother my conscience. Ego maybe.