[quote=Taj44;295850]The first would be me.

But I don't see why anyone would trust those that rant more than those that shmooze. (that would be me)

And I am guilty of wishing everyone our age could live here. Yes I am.

My comments in red.
I agee with an earlier post...ther is no need to start putting up posters and 20second spots on WVLG based on an incident that the "victims" did not feel was serious enough to tell their story to the police.


.

Thanks for your embellishment response....you saved me a lot of keystrokes.

A long while ago on TOTV there were some rumors about sexual assaults at a local supermarket parking lot near one of the Villages' town squares.

It sounded like there was something to this but there were various verbal attacks made by TOTV members by the poster(s) trying to bring these to light.

What is unclear about the fact that women often do not report crimes against them for fear of having their characters put into question? This is especially true when involving domestic violence.

Even on this thread, the victim is not given the benefit of the doubt that there was an actual "attack". It seemed like the concern was more with the image of the sports pools rather than the well being of the woman using the pool.

The security at the sports pools does seem a genuine concern if a man can just walk into the area where women are naked. This goes the other way too with a woman walking in where there are naked men except that men are usually a lot more physically imposing than women. Even though I have met a lot of women who I would not want to meet in a dark alley at night if they were in a mugging mood.

I do not understand your point. What victim of crime regarding the Lake Miona incident in this thread had their motives questioned?

In fact, can you cite any proven, factual example of a real victim who has had their motives questions in any TOTV post?

Let me state up front, I believe that no legitimate victim of a crime should ever have their motives questioned for reporting it on this board. The problem here remains whether there actually was a victim or a crime. Did a man accidentally enter the shower? We don't know. If so, could it have been a janitor? We don't know. Did the alleged intruder have a bathing suit on? Was he fully dressed? We don't know. Who is the victim? We don't know. Did the incident really happen? We don't know. We really need to predicate any judgmental conclusions on facts not speculation.

The point is that there is no apparent evidence of a verifiable victim. If you meant that a rumor was posted and credible TOTV subscribers expressed skepticism about the alarming incident as represented and, in fact, took the initiative to debunk an exaggerated rumor, count me with the "trust but verify" skeptics. They did good work in putting the record in perspective and minimizing the many stressful, anxiety producing concerns of those who concluded the worst before the facts were entered into the equation while at the same time raising awareness about the potential for a real incident.

Perhaps you misread the thread.

I have always enjoyed your articulate and enlightening posts, but have a divergence of opinion on the above point. Professionally, I have had occasion to work with Victim/Witness agencies and I agree with your points on crimes against women but do not understand their correlation to the Lake Miona incident. Perhaps an independent thread on the topic would be beneficial.

I do appreciate most of your posting efforts and have learned from them. Thanks for the cerebral exercise.

My wife and I are going to watch my favorite all time movie tonight (for about the 20th time).......Mamma Mia. Have a good evening in the Villages.

That would me be me and PTurner. I am also frightening naked.

Another one.

Perhaps you should have called another friend "who is in a position to know" before you called PromisesKept a "liar."

Annnabelle

[QUOTE=784caroline;295774]************************************************** ****

"According to the Dept of REC , "Lake Miona staff was approached by two females that there was an alleged male in the women’s restroom shower". NO WHERE is the term ATTACK used or even implied as it was used in the original post. I think that qualifies as "Embellishment" since attack truly implies a significant and serious event."

As it turns out, Pk's post was correct. According to John Rohan (director of recreation) a report was made to the staff of Lake Miona by two women.

Since Mr. Rohan did not discuss the specifics of this case, it is ridiculous to declare that the word “attack” is an “exaggeration” of what actually happened.

Even if the woman in this case had not been “physically attack,” she was certainly “psychologically attack.”

Furthermore, since Mr. Rohan failed to provide the time and date on which the incident occurred, should one jump to the conclusion that this incident never happened?

Annabelle

I understand Annabelle's point. We do have a tendency to quickly dismiss a first-time poster who says something negative about TV, especially if it is about a crime of any type. We quickly become defensive if someone says something negative (think bond, IRS issues), even when there is some validity in the post.

The reality is crimes do occur here. Fortunately, most are of the minor category -- not minor to the victim, but minor in the overall scheme of things (no injuries, minor property damage ...). Yes, some people will do a post to simply try to ruin the reputation of TV and make it out to be something less desirable. Even so, their "reports" usually are something that easily could have occurred, if not based on some fact. Just because it is the first post by an individual doesn't mean it didn't happen or couldn't happen.

In this case, Promises started by saying it was a rumor, but wanted to give us a head's up anyway. (As to why extra care should be taken at sports pools, it is quite simple -- neighborhood pools don't have showers.) She wanted to know what we knew about this incident and to let us know there was a danger. Yes, her information was exaggerated. She never claimed to know the facts, just what she had heard and, like anything repeated, things get exaggerated.

Maybe we TVers should try changing tactics a little. Rather than automatically be suspicious, perhaps we should try to get to the truth of the post like caroline did. Let's not be so quick to dismiss a negative report. They do happen here.

Well said Red. Fair and balanced. I have taken it to heart.

One more thing. Always take into account what lawyers might do with an incident involving a victim in a shopping center parking lot, supermarket parking lot, sports pool shower, etc. Many of these situations would involve liability on the part of the property owner if the proper precuations had not been taken.

So, I am not sure how unbiased a report from a property manager would be as to the actual facts of what had happened.

When lawsuits get involved the actual facts of what happened are harder to get at.

When I return I want to go to the sports pool locker room and see what it looks like. Most showers in womens locker rooms are enclosed. I am also curious to see how far they are from other pool users and how many people are in them usually and whether there could be confusion about entering the wrong one. As someone stated, the usual washroom, locker room situation is one door into the facility. Is this a door that closes or one that is an open hallway?

In order to correct the situation and have absolute safety in them, what would be expected? A guard in the locker room? That of course would cost money. Is the situation unsafe enough to warrant that? Do people think that this happens a lot and is covered up?

I am a neighborhood pool goer. There are just folks about my age sitting around and reading books and chatting with each other. We get wet and full of clorine and go home and take a shower. I need to understand better so I can be more compassionate.

I also will ask my next door neighbor, a retired policeman who has held jobs here in security at the squares and now works at Seabreeze in the fitness area. Maybe he knows some inside information.

Gracie, I've showered in a couple of times after working and needing to be someplace and too far from home. The showers are usually on one side of the hallway, the dressing room/locker area on the other. The shower area has a curtain, 3-4 showers (no privacy between showers). The dressing room area has a door in a wide, open area (think Loehmann's dressing rooms). I think a man walking in accidently is a rare occurrence but could happen -- more because of poor signage than anything else. Probably the best thing they could do is mark the areas better. I found it very confusing the first time I went in -- didn't even know there was a shower, was just going to wash up the best I could in the sink. Also, a door to the shower area would be nice, as well as some privacy while showering.

Also, it has two entrances -- the pool side and the parking lot side. I haven't gone in from the pool side, so have no clue how that portion is marked. The parking lot side can be confusing.

I have only walked through a sports pool.
 

When relatives were visiting we took them to one of the sports pools just so that an avid swimmer could look around. We just walked around so I do not know what happens on a daily basis at the sports pools.

I too am more of a neighborhood pool user rather than a sports pool frequenter.

You would expect though someone would be at least checking to see if the sports pool users had their proper Villages' IDs. No one checked our IDs when we did a look around at the Laurel Manor pool but that was three or four years ago.

[QUOTE=cabo35;295787]Perhaps you would suggest just how you would "communicate to everyone" the pertinent information."


Ever heard of a newspaper, radio, tv?

Granted, there are few details surrounding this case, and that is probably due to the manner in which this incident was handled by the staff of the Lake Miona center.

In defense of the rec center's staff, most likely they were unprepared in how to deal with this situation since a sexual assault in TV is (hopefully) a rare occurrence.

Before anyone reaches the conclusion that no crime was committed simply because the police don’t have the “name” of the woman nor a “description” of the man.....consider a few of the following facts in this case:

1) It was posted on this thread, that the attacker entered the room, turned off the lights and proceeded to grope the woman.

2) If the woman was in the shower, with water running and in total darkness..... how would she be able to identify her attacker?

3) What if the woman wore glasses, but was not wearing them when she was attacked. How could she possibly be able to give an accurate description of her assailant to the police?

4) Whenever a woman is sexually assaulted, the perpetrator is going to look for the most opportune time to attack....that is when the victim is most vulnerable and unable to defend herself. Why do you think so many rapes occur during the middle of night or when a woman is home alone.

5) The woman screamed, her screams brought one or two other women to her rescue.
During the time that these women were consoling the victim, helping her dress and seeking the aide of staff members, there was ample opportunity for the attacker to flee.

Although we do not know the age of this woman, we do know that she is a senior citizen. Perhaps being in such a distraught state of mind, she left without realizing the importance of filing a police report. But this does not mean that a crime did not occur.

If the woman is a frequent user of the sport pool it should be quite easy to identify her. If her "story" smelled the least bit fishy, it would have gone no further than her and the staff.

However, since Promiseskept heard of this incident several days after it's occurrence and because PK revealed in her post that she doesn't know the woman, then perhaps this so called "rumor" has more credence than is being given here on this site.

If a man did indeed “accidently” entered the woman’s locker room, he should come forth and put an end to this “rumor.” This would put a lot of women in TV more at ease knowing that there was not an assault at the center.

For all you “skeptics” on this thread, I am curious as to why you were so quick to dismiss this woman's complaint? Until more information is provided she certainly deserves the benefit of doubt.

I am appalled so little sympathy has been expressed (on this thread) for this woman and her ordeal...... especially from the women on TOTV.

Annabelle

I agree with Annabelle. In reality none of us actually know what happened. Whether there was a grope, a sneaked peek, or simply someone accidentally walking in...only those directly involved know. I can't believe that the police were involved if in fact someone just strolled in by accident. I use the sports pool at Seabreeze and I know just from walking in and out there is just a curtain separating the hall from the showers, it would be hard not to see anyone in the shower as you passed thru. Who wouldn't feel violated if you looked up and there was a man in the hallway? And men, how would you feel about the issue if your wife or daughter came home and said they were showering at the rec center and looked up to see a man in the hallway? It is very easy for anyone to walk into the hallways unnoticed from the parking area...not saying that we live in a community of perverts, but how many hundreds of workers are also in the area on a daily basis. I'm not saying we need constant security in these areas, but I do think we need to admit that no matter how perfect our little world seems, crimes do happen and I also believe that issues will be downplayed because of legal ramifications.

[quote=Annabelle;296031]Annabelle.

My granddaughter, a college student in journalism interned at our local NBC affiliate this summer and she had a lot to say about the verification of facts in the news. Many stories were not aired because of inability to get information.

It is hard to give sympathy and the benefit of the doubt when you aren't sure about whether there was an incident or whether it was a rumor or whether something happened and it was worse than reported or something happened and it was not a real issue.ie someone went into the locker room by mistake. My daughter reminds me all the time not to jump to fearful conclusions. She says "when you hear footsteps in the park, it is usually not an elephant."

It isn't fair to assume that some of us aren't supportive when we really don't know WHAT happened.

[quote=Annabelle;296031]Sorry, for asking all the questions. However, the "facts" are becoming more numerous.

Be careful what you are asking for.

A family member uses the Laurel Manor sports pool a few times a week.
 

She said that the women in her class this morning were talking about an instructor at another pool who had told her class to be on the lookout for strangers and that people should pair up. It seems that the rumor mill is turning very fast from what she heard about an alleged rape as well as gropings at sports pools. These alleged incidents were at different sports pools with the gropings at Laurel Manor and the "rape" and Lake Miona.

As time passes this gets more and more out of hand.
Still would like to know where that groping comment oringinated on this thread.

Click < Will now ignore this thread forever >

Sigh!

It is near the beginning of this thread and the poster is just trying to get at the facts and not spread rumors.

https://www.talkofthevillages.com/fo...97&postcount=3

"Was told this afternoon that a women was attacked while showering in the Lake Miona sport pool showers, sometime last week. The lights were turned off and a man grab her and tried to remove her. Her screams brought in 2 swimmers from the pool area...Man ran away...I have made several calls to try and confirm this...but cannot confirm....Can anyone out there confirm this? "

I had not even mentioned this TOTV thread nor its rumors to the family member who went to the Laurel Manor sports pool this morning for an exercise class and had heard rumors about this incident at Lake Miona. My family member does not even read TOTV so this is coming from some other source.

It is good that an instructor at a sports pool is taking proactive steps to prevent crime from happening.

Says nothing about groping.

I have a confession. In 2006 I walked into the men's room at Walt Disney World's Splash Mountain. Having gotten wet on the ride, I walked off and rushed into the nearest rest room to dry off. I mistakenly thought it was the women's room. While I smiled and apologized to the men at the time, if I offended any man who may be reading this, let me again apologize. (Unfortunately, my three friends were following me closely and this made them walk in there with me. I can't speak for them whether or not they were sorry, but I do know we enjoyed the many laughs we had when retelling the story thereafter. :a040:)

The only thing I walk away with from the stories and/or rumors reported in this thread is, anything can happen anywhere ... yes, even in The Villages. Everyone should always be aware of, and cautious in, their surroundings.

End of story (for me).

Some time ago after getting off a plane at Orly Airport in France I headed into the rest room and noticed that a woman was cleaning the urinal next to me. The fact that she was an airport employee did lessen my angst (a little). I like the food but won't use the facilities at France in Epcot.

THANKS MICKEY....
You have a good message while giving me quite a chuckle !!!

Fumar ...:D

Have you ever played the game where you get 10 (or more) people in a line
 

A one paragraph event/story printed, is handed to the first person, the contents are unknown to any in line or the audience.

Then starting with the first person who read it, they whisper what they read to the second, then the second to the third and so on.

The last person in the line to hear the story then gets to tell everybody what they just heard. And then the printed paragraph is read aloud for all to hear.

The results are really astonishing, humorous and entertaining.
Usually there is only a vague resemblance to the correlation.

We all say what we think we heard. Doesn't mean we are wrong intentionally. We are just sometimes.....not correct.

Then consider the event of this thread. Hearsay....interpretation...hearsay of the interpretation and the snow ball rolls merrily along....eh?

btk

:popcorn:Yup.

Some facts though have come to light. The sports pools do need quite a beef up in security. My family member has been the only person at the Laurel Manor sports pools on some Sunday afternoons. She never had her Villages I.D. checked as no one was around to do it.

It sounds like at least the instructors in exercise class, or at least one of them, are trying to do something positive to improve the security at the sports pools.

However, I would have missed this GREAT story from Mick... unfortunately its not worth hanging around tho, I've got much better things to do!! :MOJE_whot::beer3::pepper2:

I vow to not so easily dismiss a new poster in the future. But I'll still keep one eye open:)

Real housewives of the villages
 

With all the drama going on we may get the Bravo channel to create a TV show for us called "the Housewives of The Village"..we would give The housewives of Orange County a run for their money!!!:a040:

Right again BTK:024:

About a year ago, I was headed to the ladies' room at the Walmart on 466 - a man about 15 feet in front of me, on a cell phone. He went straight to a stall (happened to be the handicapped one) and I heard him tell whomever was on the other end of the cell that apparently he walked into the wrong one because he didn't see any urinals. Then I heard the flush. There were 2 or 3 women coming in and out but I guess he was concentrating on the phone call. Easy to do.

I talked to one of the guys who works at Laurel Manor and that I know relativey well. He knew of the incident and here's the facts as he knows them (he took the report from a party who was IN the pool, not on the ladies in the shower or locker room.

There was a loud scream and a man came bolting out of the women's area. He was obviously very embarassed and left the scene in his golf cart immediately. He was told by a swimmer that the man had inadvertently entered the wrong area and immediately left. Both the woman in the shower and the one in the locker area were fine, just startled. There was NO groping, no sexual assault; just an unfortunate mistake so far as anyone can tell.

However, the story did get around the pool and, of course, like the old game of telephone got quite embellished. Since someone did in fact scream and there was in fact a male in the wrong area, it made it very easy to turn a mistake into a heinous act.

Not every act by a male is a sexual assault. Not every rumor (heck, make it MOST), is true even though there may be a grain of truth in them. Hope this helps clear up the mess.

Thank you DEE....whew. WHAT A RELIEF!!! You get the Detective prize of the week.

:popcorn:

Bill

Lights (out), cameras, action!
 

Black,
Great idea! And I have a suggestion for the show’s premier:

We install cameras in the ladies shower room at Lake Miona recreation center and let them roll for 24 to 48 hours as the “Housewives of TV” take their showers!

Oh, forgot to mention a few stipulations.... just to heighten the “drama”

1) Each lady must be all alone in the shower/dressing area
2) No other person is allowed to be any closer than the outside pool area and there
must be loud music playing as each lady takes her shower
3) Each lady must spend 15 minutes in the shower/dressing room......which is typically how long it should take to enter the room, disrobe, shower, dress and re-apply make-up.

I suggest we title the show something “catchy”....how about....”Waiting for Groper”
Any volunteers?

Annabelle