Hard to understand why the developer could not make a profit but apparently their restaurant/building leasers can(example McCalls and Margaretville) with the same exact clientele. How do they stop the water/tea drinkers ? And if successful why didn't the developer use the same strategy.

Probably perception, many believed, wrongly, that Katie Bells and the CCs are amenities and they were entitled to use they, when in fact they are not, nor were they ever, amenities. These were private businesses just like the restaurants in the squares. When people walk into a restaurant there is an expectation to purchase (and tip) whereas this same perception does not exist if you feel you've already paid your share. The situation has only become worse over time and it may not be the last we see of things like this.

OK I don't buy profit thing. I believe there was other issues going on the developer did not want to deal with. These people know how to make a profit. The issue may have been the profit was not large enough for the headaches or their time was better spent on other ventures they could concentrate on.

But let's explore the situation getting worse with time. Why? Demographics ? If so what attribute of demography is triggering "worse" ?

The desert south of 44
 

Most of us won't be here in 200 yrs, or even 100 yrs. The former Morse generation did much for for the infrastructure than the present generation.

Lookee there, a first time poster. welcome.

My favorite Morse was Gary in that he is the one with the vision of The Villages that took it into the level it is now. He risked his own money time and time again and was able to make things happen more easily as he was the single power. I think Mark, Tracy and Jennifer do a great job and it cannot be easy because I have lived long enough to know that getting three people to agree on anything, let alone the three being siblings, is a difficult task.

This is the time of the year we get a lot of negativity and I always wonder why. I am not sure what this sentence means

The former Morse generation did much for for the infrastructure than the present generation.

One enormous thing that Gary et al has done is separate and widen the cart paths. Much safer than north of 466.

Nothing anyone can do about it.. land south of 44 probably still looking for permits.. it is what it is..

Were you here with the prior generations???


Just like the current generation, prior generations had The Good, The Bad & (some will say) The Ugly.

Assume you have facts to back up the infrastructure claim?

Grape vine says gas station pulled out also! Not as well planned out as previous expansion. I manage my shopping trips so only mildly inconvenient but very annoying

I'm sure that is a rumor, why on earth would a gas station pull out unless of course they know of another one being built nearby. Any of the commercial corner out lots along Warm Springs that are for sale would be good spots for gas stations or restaurants, bars, etc. They are also working hard on the commercial property north and just east of the Turnpike, maybe a gas station will be going in there. By the time they get one built there will be so many people here that there will be lines trying to get fuel. I drove past Magnolia today and there seems to be some new equipment that wasn't there before Christmas, maybe they're getting ready to do some constructing. I also wen't to the Lake Deaton Plaza today and it's not far at all from these southern villages, and our home is probably as far away as you can get from it.

We JUST came back from a drive - from our house In Glichrist, down to Fenney et al. To the new-ish Everglades Rec Complex...nice, and Fenney Nature Trail...REALLY nice - saw otters swimming in the river catching fish etc. Drove past the Magnolia Plaza Shopping area....with - NOTHING, and no sign of building. We were astonished that (still) the Fenney folks and others down south musr drive so far for basic shopping. The New Publix near us in Trailwinds is being built post-haste. One would think the planned Publix in Magnolia would be a preference, but apparently not. Glad we're not down there... And traffic whooshing from the Turnpike can be easily heard from the Everglades parking area. There are homes built/being built much closer than that...

We drive less than 5 miles and one stoplight for basic shopping, not a big deal at all. When completed the homes near the turnpike will be in the minority, and people are buying them as fast as they build them. Chitty Chatty is coming up next and it is not near the Turnpike and very near to Lake Deaton Plaza. Most of us that live down here are very glad to be here as are all of the people moving down from northern villages.

I currently live in the "Pennecamp area" - Buttonwood.. Purposely picked it for its equidistance to Brownwood and Sumter. However, we decided to "upsize" and build in Monarch Grove - which appears to be the future mid point of The Villages, or close. There are still not enough cars in The Villages to make a good traffic jam (nor will there be in the foreseeable future), and Orlando and MCO are 15 minutes closer (we frequent the airport). While magnolia will be an added bonus, Lake Deaton's Publix is 2 lights away (one allowing the right turn on red), and can be reached far quicker, and with less hassle, than the Publix we frequented in the Atlanta suburbs. We have already met many of our new neighbors, all of whom have the excitement of new Villagers, with none of the complaining and animosity often expressed on this blog. They (and we) came with eyes wide open. Contrary to some opinions, you do not need to show your passport to cross 44 .. either way.. I bought something posted by a Bonita resident today, and he mentioned that when he bought 11 years ago, he was at the south end of civilization. The more things change, the more they remain the same, as the saying goes. No regrets .. different strokes for different folks. Everyone down here is certainly old enough to make their own decisions, and do what they perceive is best for them and their loved ones.

The great race is on, what will come first in the desert, shopping or Championship golf?

From North to South of 44
 

Just curious, do current Villagers have an advantage over non Villagers when new homes or lots are released/advertised?

Future Villagers ( May 2020)

Hmmm, an excellent question. :thumbup:


If you decide to get a pool going, put me down for $10 that before there's a championship course....there will be a Dollar General.


:D

Must have been costco. :bigbow:

Advantage Neither
 

You need to have an experienced and aggressive Villages salesperson looking out for you. If you;re looking for pre owned homes, you should be looking at bother realtor listings and Villages listings.. HOWEVER, if you are committed to build, vs buy a spec, you need to have a Villages salesperson aware of what you want, where, and what you are willing to spend. Good lots go within minutes of their release. The price and terms are non negotiable. If you are not willing to commit, there are usually several back-ups waiting for you to drop your commitment.

That’s not fair. There is already a Dollar General on Warm Springs.:icon_wink::icon_wink:

By the time the size of TV reached about 45,000 homes [2013] there were several championship courses, dining at country clubs, dozens of restaurants, pharmacies, big box stores, small specialty stores, gas stations, … either on the premises or on the adjoining streets.
With the next 60,000 homes there have been almost no new championship courses, almost no new stores or restaurants, almost no country clubs for dining.
So to look at the past and claim it is no different is simply not true.
As to what the Morses could do to encourage commercial development there is a very simple idea. Lower the rent for the first five years of the lease. Businesses would get a foothold in the plazas and they'd fill in rapidly. There are more than enough residents south of 44 to support commerce with help from the landowners it will happen more quickly.
Of course that would cut into the profit margin of those landowners for a few years, but an empty storefront makes them nothing. So win/win.

I am amazed that people blame the EPA and permit problems as reasons for the slow progress on commercial development. That same EPA and those same permitting agencies seem to have not slowed development at Trailwinds. The Morses could not be operating in a county that is more friendly to the wishes of developers than is Sumter where it seems that the county commissioners are nearly hand picked by the family.

I think the frustration of the OP is justified and fact based. The Villages has long presented itself as a golf cart community. So if you live south of 44, where do you shop or eat that is golf cart accessible? And it has now been almost 3 years since Fenney opened. Still only the Grill and the food trucks are on site.

And with no town square in any announced plans, it is going to be six plus miles by cart to Brownwood. For all those who say that is close enough and not at all different than previous development plans..
If you live north of 44 I believe that you can never be more than 4 miles from at least one square. And most people are within 5 miles of two of them.

No, the planning and design and building of structures of other than houses has been very different south of 44. Whether you view that difference as a negative is up to you, but to claim it has always been like this is inaccurate.

I don't know how many homes are down here to date but I would guess somewhere between 6 and 7,000, It will be a lot of years before there are 45,000 homes south of 44 and I would guess by then we will have everything we need.

All The Above!
 

Thanks for the advice, we are doing everything you suggested.

Future Villagers
Spring 2020

I have read many times that the folks who have purchased south of 44 prefer a more serene and quiet environment and more beautiful than the northern Villages. That is the appeal for purchasing down south.

Pine Ridge is close to 8mi from a square.

Brownwood will be less than 4 mi once the connectors are in.

You’re going to burst the negativity bubble with facts.

Why don,t we all get together and demand the finish the Plaza !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

OH Also the Bridge that was to be finished by Jan 2010 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!

WE also need to give FENNEY GRILL Competition !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Well, let me tell you ,the Villages knows whats going 2 be dune !!!!!!!!

https://cdn2.thevillages.com/wp-cont...olia-Plaza.jpg

Magnolia Plaza

2020

Daily conveniences are just a golf car ride away. The new Magnolia Plaza will feature a grocer, financial services, pharmacy, and a variety of restaurants.

With 11 shopping plazas located throughout The Villages community, residents and surrounding community locals can shop top-notch retailers from grocers such as Publix, Walmart and Winn-Dixie, to restaurants, clothing boutiques and specialty service businesses.

Convenient access to shopping plazas is high priority to residents; therefore The Villages Shopping Plazas are strategically placed throughout the community. Magnolia Plaza, the 12th shopping center of The Villages, is currently being developed and is expected to be completed in 2020.

You mean 2020? It's finished, it just doesn't go anywhere.

https://scontent-mia3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...cd&oe=5E6F3686

Close to 5,000 new people move into The Villages in new homes a year. You would be hard pressed to find similar building going on elsewhere in the Country. The Villages is a phenomenon that defies most companies marketing strategies. The other big difference between The Villages and other 55 Adult Communities is that the Village Developer controls most of the land, all the new houses, most of the commercial properties and has designed The Villages so golf cart access is controlled by The Developer. Gary Morse and his “family team” have designed a phenomenal planned unit development that is admired by not only other Developers but also by those who have purchased here. Is it perfect and are there “bumps in the road? Of course. If I was 20 years younger, I would have been one of the pioneers that moved south of State Route 44. Patience my friends (I can understand some of your frustration) it will all come together in the next 18 months or so. Fore.

By my calculations, Pine Ridge is about 5 miles from Lake Sumter and about 6 miles from Brownwood. But, it is also within a mile of 2 grocery stores, 3 drug stores, 2 rec centers, and 8 restaurants. Who needs a square?

Recalculate from the Eastern edge in Fruitland...

Pennacamp was just being built in 2010. We bought a house in April 2010. Brownwood was not in any of our sights then much less a bridge.

I did. According to Google Maps, the closest square is Lake Sumter, 5.2 miles. The distance to Brownwood is 6.6 miles.

If you have the availability to sign a lease on commercial property, bet you can get that grocery you want. With A few thousand people in the new area, and not all home sold are being occupied, or rented out, or are snow birds. You would be donating lots of fresh food, meat, and dairy. Give the developer a call I am sure they are more than willing to get that contract going.

I am sure you know If there is not a lease in place, for a grocery, you can’t build the shell until you know what’s going in it.

When we came in 07 LSL was a ghost town, there were multiple villages completed. Yet for shopping and dining you Went to SS.

Everyone who pioneered into a new area gets to experience the effects of waiting for retail. I just think most of us were so happy to be here, we seemed to be much more patient in the next adventure the developer offered. Brick and Mortar are becoming a thing of the past generations. As the 40s and 50s move here, retail will change.

90% of my grocery, pet food, and all of my other essentials come to my front door. Advantage is it Keeps you on budget, no impulse buying

You are so RIGHT. My company specializes in retail, especially F&B and we design stores all over the world. B&M is a thing of the past, look around the empty shopping malls in the US, you are not alone this picture is replicated worldwide. AMAZON is partly to blame, as am I for using Amazon...

We have seen the introduction of food trucks which some hate but new wave entrepreneurs are flocking to instead of careers in banking and finance (in London at least). Yes, it would be great to have Magnolia built for when we (eventually) move out more permanently (OK 6 months a year due to VISAs), but all the time someone can deliver our groceries then hell we are happy. Retail will change - as will the shopping habits of future generations and TV are right to consider this in their future developments. What is worse no shops or empty boarded up shops?

The best things come to those that wait...

I was told by a Rec. Dept. employee Publix has decided not to build in Magnolia Plaza