Talk of The Villages Florida

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-   The Villages, Florida, General Discussion (https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/villages-florida-general-discussion-73/)
-   -   Some thoughts on growth, development, and "Too big" (https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/villages-florida-general-discussion-73/some-thoughts-growth-development-too-big-339766/)

tvbound 03-13-2023 07:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Travelhunter123 (Post 2197295)
Is there a “readers digest”version of this


"Is there a “readers digest”version of this"


I think that could be summed up by slightly changing a common phrase to: "You can't fight those who own City Hall/State Government."

Altavia 03-13-2023 08:08 PM

///

HoosierPa 03-13-2023 08:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OrangeBlossomBaby (Post 2197194)
There will come a point in time when the developers will say "we've decided we really don't want to expand further, we're kinda finished here." Some descendent of the Morse Family will say "Nah, I'm gonna be a doctor instead." And that'll be the end of development of The Villages. That will also be the day when all those construction jobs are cut off. It will happen, eventually. There is only so far the developer -can- develop. The state has edges, it's not infinite.

It's an upside down pyramid. The Developer is on the bottom, alone. Everyone else is spread out on top, in layer upon layer of responsibility and benefit. The moment the Developer says they're done, EVERYONE topples. The bigger the pile on top of them, the more disastrous the result.

As for your question - we moved into a pre-owned in the "Historic" section for precisely the reason that we wanted something that was lived-in and established. There wasn't enough money or perks in the world to convince us to move to the new sections. Even now that you've crossed Florida's Turnpike and 44, the furthest south I'd even consider would be the northern half of the O'Dell circle. And that'd be pretty iffy. It would definitely not be my first choice but I'd consider it, if we ever decided to move from our current location.

In addition, not everyone profited off their jobs and saved up to afford to live here. Many of us borrowed. Some of us are paying mortgages, and there are plenty of Villagers who still work for a living because they can't afford to retire yet, or aren't old enough for social security benefits yet, and never earned enough to invest like some of you have. Some of us were fortunate enough to have bought our northern homes at what was a reasonable price at the time - not as an investment, but as a home we lived in for 10+ years. And were equally fortunate to be able to sell that home for more than we paid for it - which wasn't a business decision, it's just how the market was at the time we ended up being forced to move when we lost our jobs due to company closures and a tight hiring environment in mostly-obsolete skilled trades. After paying off the balance of the mortgage, we had enough to pay a sizeable portion of our Florida home, but nowhere near the full amount.

I don't begrudge anyone for wanting something shiny and new to call their own in their retirement. But painting it all as the developer wanting to help the communities and keep people working - is disingenuous. The good news, is that SOME of those construction workers will still be needed to replace homes in the -northern- part of the Villages, as they start wearing down and need replacing. But if everyone working for the construction company (which has direct ties to the developer don't forget - so this is totally not a selfless act, the developer makes mega-bucks) is living in the southern-most areas, they're going to have the same kind of commute to get to work in the northern area, than they have now living 30+ miles from the current construction.

It isn't sustainable. At some point, the structure will crumble.

FYI,
I live South of 44 and wouldn’t consider living north of 466.

GizmoWhiskers 03-13-2023 09:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cybersprings (Post 2197334)
Good point. I think the villages should have kept the theater open and REQUIRED every resident to attend it regularly so that it would remain sustainable. Ask those grandkids when the last time they went to the movie theater back home was (vs streaming on their ipads or TVs).

Brownwood theater was doing just fine before covid and will do just fine if opened again. Where do you see kids out and about and not buried in those ipads? Laughing and having a great time riding in golf carts, playing pickle ball and swimming in the pools with the old folks in T V!! They also liked going to the Brownwood theater when the sun was scortching hot in the summer... well at least my grand kids did. I suppose some people prefer kids be baby sat by electronics while in TV... to each there own.

Taltarzac725 03-13-2023 10:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GizmoWhiskers (Post 2197572)
Brownwood theater was doing just fine before covid and will do just fine if opened again. Where do you see kids out and about and not buried in those ipads? Laughing and having a great time riding in golf carts, playing pickle ball and swimming in the pools with the old folks in T V!! They also liked going to the Brownwood theater when the sun was scortching hot in the summer... well at least my grand kids did. I suppose some people prefer kids be baby sat by electronics while in TV... to each there own.

They have not been able to book some movies because they do not have enough available screens.

WoodshopMark 03-14-2023 01:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NoMo50 (Post 2197280)
I don't buy that theory, and further, I'm glad I don't wake up every day with such a pessimistic attitude toward our community.

The Developer is just what the word implies...a developer of property. When a particular area's development has been completed, the communities are turned over to a CDD. The Developer never intended to be a mother hen, looking after her flock into perpetuity.

Ever hear of Del Webb? They are another successful developer of retirement communities, albeit with a totally different strategy. Del Webb communities tend to be smaller, and more isolated/individual as compared to The Villages. Once Del Webb completes a project/development, they vacate the area and turn the whole project over to an HOA. Yet, they continue to prosper and be popular even without their mother hen.

I, for one, am glad The Villages developer has opted to play the long game, and I hope they continue to make a profit. Their business model is what has provided the communities we all call home. Their continued success means that we will continue to enjoy the benefits that brought us here in the first place.

You missed the point. Even after the CDD assumes responsibility the developer still owns the:
Three squares
The bank
The Villages Health
Hotels
Many restaurants
Championship golf courses
Water company
Jacobs
Pool construction company
Shopping centers
Sawgrass Grove
Controls the schools
The dump
The list goes on....

Laker14 03-14-2023 04:49 AM

Wow! Great thread. Don Wiley, thank you for your great OP, and for all you do to keep us as informed of what's going on as you do.
tophcfa, thank you for post #59, (too long to quote here but well worth the read). And thanks again Don for your response to those points.

As for those who want a "Reader's Digest Version", if you consider all of the work that Don Wiley puts into participating in the local government, and making fly-over drone videos to educate us, and creating well thought out posts to inform us of what's going on, you can't take the time to read a few paragraphs....well....that strikes me as pretty pathetic.

If this place is a grand experiment, I feel very fortunate to get to be a part of it. It's not perfect, but it's pretty close to perfect for us.

Jayhawk 03-14-2023 06:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bogie Shooter (Post 2197480)
Knowing of couples leaving is not a new phenomenon, twenty years ago when we bought our first home, there were people leaving. A blanket statement “they are leaving” doesn’t cut it….there are many reasons……

Right on!

They are merely being replaced, and usually quickly.

:BigApplause:

Altavia 03-14-2023 06:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Goldwingnut (Post 2197338)
This is incorrect, the bonds build the infrastructure needed to support the community but not the amenities.

The amenities are funded by the developer who then owns and operates them as a portion of their business portfolio. In that construction cost is also a proportionate share of the infrastructure cost. The amenities are not a part of the respective neighboring CDD. The CDD lines are drawn around these properties and exclude them.

If the bond funds were used to build the amenities, those amenities would then be a part of the CDD issuing the bonds. But they aren't, so they don't.

The bonds do, however, make the amenities possible.

The developer is able to recoup the development costs quickly by billing the costs to the CDD who then pays them from the funds raised by the sale of the bonds. The developer doesn't have their money tied up in water lines, retention ponds, roads, and sewer pipes for the duration of the sale cycle. This frees up cash to allow the building of the amenities.

Without this methodology, we would be no different than most other communities where the salesman showing a lot would make statements like "over there will be the green for the 7th hole that will be built next year", something that frequently fails to materialize due to cash flow issues.
..

.

Thanks Don for the clarification.
.

Bogie Shooter 03-14-2023 06:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rustyp (Post 2197521)
HH already ?

//////

huge-pigeons 03-14-2023 07:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spinner1001 (Post 2197227)
This is a straw man fallacy.
Straw Man Fallacy | Excelsior Online Writing Lab

Please stop. No one said the developer is doing things for only altruistic reasons, which is what you imply. That’s just silly.

The profit motive of capitalism does come with altruistic benefits. It has brought much of the world out of extreme poverty. Is it perfect? No, it has blemishes certainly. But other systems have performed worse.

It’s a time to celebrate. We live in the most prosperous and healthiest time in human history.




Nonsense. This is a similar argument that capitalism is not sustainable and will kill the planet. The argument is often made by anti-capitalists with socialist leanings. Again, capitalism has blemishes but things are very unlikely to collapse.

For those who want to learn more about whether capitalism is sustainable, here is a (long) lecture from a Duke University professor.
https://youtu.be/6dVSOIiO_U8

(I suspect that cherry picked counter examples are about to come.)

Great post from goldwingnut. You are correct spinner1001. Things aren’t going to fail overnight or anytime soon. When you have people leaving California/NY/Oregon/NJ/Illinois and many others and a lot of them moving here, we will be growing for the foreseeable future.
As for development plans, you don’t wake up 1 morning and say we will start building in this new area. It takes years of planning, surveying, permits, building the infrastructure and so on before the 1st house can be built.
As for never thinking of moving south of 466, we just moved here and we didn’t even consider anything north of 466a and we ended up in the southern most part. We know several people that have moved from the old section of the villages to the south and the people we know that live south of 44 that are selling, they are all moving into a newer home in either Richmond or Newell. There are so many more benefits living in the southern sections compared to the older sections.

SusanStCatherine 03-14-2023 08:36 AM

I'm curious. Are there currently any pools or Rec Centers in Newell, Lake Denham, or Dabney? (There is a pitch n putt and a putting course.)

SusanStCatherine 03-14-2023 08:40 AM

Why are Premier homes no longer being built? Why are custom Designer homes now limited to very few options despite a huge new design center in Brownwood?

MidWestIA 03-14-2023 08:48 AM

Infrastructure
 
I'm ok with getting bigger as long as they keep the Infrastructure in line with it and we don't run out of water. We lived in Frisco TX (north Dallas) and it was growing just as fast BUT they built Infrastructure before all the houses.

LuvNH 03-14-2023 08:55 AM

[QUOTE=OrangeBlossomBaby;2197194]There will come a point in time when the developers will say "we've decided we really don't want to expand further, we're kinda finished here." Some descendent of the Morse Family will say "Nah, I'm gonna be a doctor instead." And that'll be the end of development of The Villages. That will also be the day when all those construction jobs are cut off. It will happen, eventually. There is only so far the developer -can- develop. The state has edges, it's not infinite.

I am of the opinion that The Morse Family are probably no longer actually running TV and may well have a holding company which will continue to manage day to day matters allowing any of the Morse family to become a Doctor if they so wish.

Jayhawk 03-14-2023 09:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Taltarzac725 (Post 2197579)
They have not been able to book some movies because they do not have enough available screens.

Which movies?

rustyp 03-14-2023 09:13 AM

[QUOTE=LuvNH;2197708]
Quote:

Originally Posted by OrangeBlossomBaby (Post 2197194)
There will come a point in time when the developers will say "we've decided we really don't want to expand further, we're kinda finished here." Some descendent of the Morse Family will say "Nah, I'm gonna be a doctor instead." And that'll be the end of development of The Villages. That will also be the day when all those construction jobs are cut off. It will happen, eventually. There is only so far the developer -can- develop. The state has edges, it's not infinite.

I am of the opinion that The Morse Family are probably no longer actually running TV and may well have a holding company which will continue to manage day to day matters allowing any of the Morse family to become a Doctor if they so wish.

The canary in the coal mine will be when the flowers go to a semi annual change Vs quarterly. Be astute.

LuvNH 03-14-2023 09:35 AM

[QUOTE=rustyp;2197719]
Quote:

Originally Posted by LuvNH (Post 2197708)

The canary in the coal mine will be when the flowers go to a semi annual change Vs quarterly. Be astute.

If a Holding Company or any other entity started to allow TV to get run down it will cause the income to the family to drop and I cannot see that happening.

rustyp 03-14-2023 09:55 AM

[QUOTE=LuvNH;2197732]
Quote:

Originally Posted by rustyp (Post 2197719)

If a Holding Company or any other entity started to allow TV to get run down it will cause the income to the family to drop and I cannot see that happening.

There is a saying "1st generation makes it, 2nd generation maintains it, 3rd generation destroys it". Harold and Gary were 1st gen. Mark, Tracy, and Jennifer are 2nd gen and still running the show. Keep an eye on the flowers.

Bill14564 03-14-2023 10:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LuvNH (Post 2197732)

If a Holding Company or any other entity started to allow TV to get run down it will cause the income to the family to drop and I cannot see that happening.

Where does the family get their income, from the residents already in their homes or the purchasers of new homes? Things can slip quite a bit in the established areas before it begins to affect sales of new homes. Heck, carefully engineer a contrast between the bright, shiny offerings in a new square and the well-worn offerings in an old square and you might prompt some existing homeowners to purchase the new homes.

The flowers just might be the canary in the coal mine as the previous poster suggested.

virtue51 03-14-2023 10:40 AM

Thank you for the explanation.

Normal 03-14-2023 10:48 AM

462
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by talonip (Post 2197286)
Thank you for your insight. As usual you are right on. We have lived here for almost 10 years and love seeing the new areas being developed. However that doesn’t mean that we turn our backs on some areas of concern.

First is the 462 and 466A intersection. That is going to be disaster on Sundays. We go to church at St Vincent. It is becoming insane getting to and especially getting out on Sunday. The pastor says they are gonna cut a new exit out to 134. That will help a little but when all that new development opens on 462 it will get unbearable.

I agree, and 462 will be a huge concern very soon. 6 buildings with 60 apartment units each are almost ready to open on 462 in a small area. I’m not sure what the traffic will be like once they all open, but I can’t imagine it getting better. The Sheriff’s Department stops and directs traffic accordingly on Saturdays and Sundays to assist, but this is required before the units have even been occupied.

In addition, more multi family units have broken ground directly across the street and almost adjacent to St. Vincent’s. Furthermore, new housing units are almost completed directly across the road from the church. The area will be a menace to traffic problems.

This is all a Wildwood problem, not the Villages concern. The city of Wildwood has Comte logistical catastrophe.

kansasr 03-14-2023 11:02 AM

[QUOTE=LuvNH;2197708]
Quote:

Originally Posted by OrangeBlossomBaby (Post 2197194)
There will come a point in time when the developers will say "we've decided we really don't want to expand further, we're kinda finished here." Some descendent of the Morse Family will say "Nah, I'm gonna be a doctor instead." And that'll be the end of development of The Villages. That will also be the day when all those construction jobs are cut off. It will happen, eventually. There is only so far the developer -can- develop. The state has edges, it's not infinite.

I am of the opinion that The Morse Family are probably no longer actually running TV and may well have a holding company which will continue to manage day to day matters allowing any of the Morse family to become a Doctor if they so wish.

We are already under a holding company, The Villages Land Holding Company, LLC

Altavia 03-14-2023 11:15 AM

///

jimjamuser 03-14-2023 12:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jayhawk (Post 2197372)
Well, if everyone left their deadbeat, grown kids back where they come from, the crime stats would probably drop by 80 percent rapidly.

True. That is a problem. That's why I have suggested so many improvements for safety and security including UPGRADING the Police department.

JP 03-14-2023 12:07 PM

I disagree that the 3rd generation of TV owners are going to fail. I've met a couple of them and they are top notch. This family had its roots in a restaurant in Michigan and know hard work and are super dedicated to continue making TV the premier senior development in the world. By the way, the flowers are paid thru the HOA---nothing to do with the developers.

Bill14564 03-14-2023 12:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JP (Post 2197787)
I disagree that the 3rd generation of TV owners are going to fail. I've met a couple of them and they are top notch. This family had its roots in a restaurant in Michigan and know hard work and are super dedicated to continue making TV the premier senior development in the world. By the way, the flowers are paid thru the HOA---nothing to do with the developers.

By the way, there is no HOA in the Villages.

But I do wonder which CDD pays for the flowers. If each of the numbered CDDs each pay for them directly then fine. If the PWAC / SLCDD then that's a different story.

rustyp 03-14-2023 12:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JP (Post 2197787)
I disagree that the 3rd generation of TV owners are going to fail. I've met a couple of them and they are top notch. This family had its roots in a restaurant in Michigan and know hard work and are super dedicated to continue making TV the premier senior development in the world. By the way, the flowers are paid thru the HOA---nothing to do with the developers.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill14564 (Post 2197791)
By the way, there is no HOA in the Villages.

But I do wonder which CDD pays for the flowers. If each of the numbered CDDs each pay for them directly then fine. If the PWAC / SLCDD then that's a different story.

A direct post by Don Wiley from the past referring to a rumor of reducing flower bed plantings:

"Having set through multiple budget meetings and workshops this year for several of the numbered (residential) districts, and PWAC, this was never discussed in any of these meetings. Specifically, this would have been covered by the PWAC budget for the Project Wide Fund, and neither the subject of reducing the plantings nor funding fireworks displays was discussed. The multi-year landscape contracts call for 4 bedding plant replacements per year and these contracts have not been modified to reduce the number of plantings."

Laker14 03-14-2023 01:18 PM

People who think it's a bad thing that TV keeps expanding are missing a big point. It is not a choice between The Villages continuing to develop and no development at all. It is a choice between TV getting bigger and somebody else developing the area.
The Villages keeps growing, and "The Developers" keep developing because there is a market for homes in this part of the country. If the Morse family didn't tap that market, someone else would.

So the question to ask yourselves is this: Would I rather have more of what we have in TV being developed around here, or more of what we have going up behind the Trailwinds Plaza?

Pilodent 03-14-2023 03:15 PM

Growth
 
This essay was way too long.
and I thought I would share my thoughts on growth. I have no obligation or loyalty to The Villages developer beyond the same responsibilities I have towards each and every resident and business in Sumter County, my thoughts and opinions below, come from looking at things from a business perspective and as a resident of the county and our community.



I aways love this question and it many variations. Here's my take on i
First, the developer isn't short sighted, and they know where this community is going and where they will build many years in advance.

They are very good businesspeople and know how to make a profitable business – this is not a sin or something evil, it is exactly how each of us were able to be here, we made a profit in what we were doing for a living and saved some of it for retirement. A business exists to make a profit by providing a commodity that someone else wants.

Some of the keys to being profitable in business are knowing your customer, having a desirable product that people want, these they obviously mastered. Cost containment and pricing are also key factors to success. For this discussion, “knowing where your customers are” is the point to delve into.

For Brownwood to be successful as a business location it must be surrounded by its customer base, just like Lake Sumter Landing and Spanish Springs. As we see it today with the building of Richmond, St. Johns, and beyond, that is certainly the case. Had this not been planned all along and they were truly going to stop at SR44, Brownwood would likely be located where the Turman and Roosevelt executive courses are today.

Brownwood’s current location would have been a mistake when it was chosen over 25 years ago (watch the next 30 seconds of this video https://youtu.be/_GHKaJd-wKk?t=133 ) had they not been planning to move south of SR44. The problem was zoning, south of SR44 wasn’t zoned for this kind of development and until it was, Brownwood’s location was a huge gamble because it was out in the middle of nowhere Sumter County. Planning something like The Villages is multifaceted task that has to not only look at moving dirt, buying lumber and shingles, and building houses, it also requires looking at the economics of not only the end results but the process as it impact the local and regional economies, and understanding how to use that in the planning and long term goal process. Until many of the necessary things became solidified, “stopping at SR44” was a valid and true statement; they just weren’t showing their hold cards and what they were working on in the background.

I’ll sidetrack for just a minute here to the topic of “stopping at CR466A” that I’ve heard many were told or promised. This was pure ignorance for anyone to say or believe, and for some it was just dishonesty to hype sales. Let me explain, CDD5 was established on 3/19/2002 as the first CDD south of CR466, then on 2/10/2004 CDD6 was established, by 9/28/2004 CDD9 and CDD10 were established. The first homes built south of CR466 didn’t happen until sometime in 2004. So, if you bought south of CR466 and were told they’re not building south of CR466A, there was either ignorance or willful misinformation by the person providing the information, at the plans for south of CR466A were already well in progress.

Now back to SR44. As The Villages grew and progressed southward, it not only created new homes and communities that brought with it new commercial enterprises and a thriving economy, it also established and very strong construction industry that currently numbers in the 12-15,000 jobs for Sumter and surrounding counties. This growth created a growing and prosperous economy and tax base. A little long-term planning and thinking by civic leaders saw this growth as Lemmings running off a cliff (actually a myth created by Disney), with the cliff being SR44. If The Villages were to “stop building” at SR44, the economy of Sumter and neighboring counties and cities would feel a huge negative impact from the loss of thousands of construction jobs. The developer recognized this and planned accordingly and quietly for this.

Along with the job losses would come plummeting property values, loss of may more jobs as the workers moved away and took with them their families. Family members that also held jobs in the area; medical workers, commercial establishments, restaurants, secondary construction, landscaping, and many more. If you think that it’s hard now to find people to work, imagine how much worse it would be if the 15,000 workers lost their jobs and moved away.

Not all of course would move away, some would stay, but with few jobs, unemployment would go through the roof and as history has shown us, crime would also spike with the unemployment. Crime picks the easy targets, in the case of The Villages that would be senior citizens and lots of unoccupied homes (snowbirds).

The economy, crime, and unemployment are three of the biggest issues civic leaders have to deal with, if they don’t deal with these first, there is no way do also deal with things like infrastructure, roads, schools, and the myriad of other issues on their plates.

It is a difficult and delicate task for civic leaders to balance all the needs of the community, one cannot favor businesses over residents or residents over businesses, one cannot take an unwavering position on an issue such as growth without directly impacting, negatively or positively, other issues such as home values or employment. A great amount of flexibility is needed, and each individual issue must be evaluated on its merits and overall long- and short-term impact. In the case allowing The Villages to continue building south of 44, this was a decision that had to be made to preserve the economy of the entire area. We can now see in hindsight that the developer foresaw and planned ahead for this decision.

Many have said that Harold Schwartz would not have done what is happening today, I say this is bunk. The timing of what is happening today goes back to the 90’s when Mr. Schwartz as alive and actively involved in the planning and future development of The Villages. What we see today is a part of and a continuation of his dream. I never met the man, but I have spoken to many who knew him personally and worked and did business with him, they all agree that his outward persona of being everyone’s friend was true and genuine, but when it came to business he was a shrewd and as hard charging any of today’s business giants, and that business always came first.

Now our civic leaders, at all levels, are dealing with and addressing the domino issues of these decisions: schools, roads, businesses, and many more. They can’t over react or plan too far in the future as they have to live withing budgets that by their very nature, lag behind the growth, incurring debt to “get ahead” of an issue often turns to folly and a waste of money. The counties and cities around us are investing and planning for the growth, much of it is very well thought out. The perception of some is that nothing is happening, hardly the case, sometimes the perception of “too much traffic” is simply more that it used to be but sill less than the current design capacities. Many times there are additional issues that the average resident doesn’t know of or understand that cannot be ignored or dismissed before an issue, perceived or otherwise, is addressed; in the case of roadways right-of-way ownership and drainage are two areas that stumbling blocks that must always be addressed first as well as budget restraints.

Concerning other infrastructure such as utilities, this is a joint effort between developers and municipalities. Wildwood is currently dealing with an aging wastewater processing system that is reaching capacity due to the city’s growth outside of The Villages component. New apartment complexes, home development, and business are stressing these resources and Wildwood’s leaders have recently taken positive and decisive steps to address these. Fortunately, Wildwood is spared much of the stress on these systems caused by the growth of The Villages as water related infrastructure is basically self-contained within the development. The building of the massive Gibson Wastewater Treatment facility at 501/470 to serve the areas south of Monarch Grove down to Middleton an beyond, being done by the developer without impact to Wildwood’s systems is an example of this. The cities of Coleman, Webster, Center Hill, and Bushnell are also addressing issues of continued growth, working with each other and the county to address current and plan for future needs.

Growth is inevitable, how we deal with it is important. I believe that our local governments are now in responsible and forward-thinking hands, looking out for the overall good of the community and not that of a few individuals or entities. Many local activists and those on social media would want you to think otherwise, a very myopic and self-indulgent opinion, and not based on any facts.

To the many who believe things have gotten too big I ask you, did it get too big the day before or the day after you arrived? If it is too big for you, the roads go in both directions, but remember, if you leave, wherever you go next, it too may be getting “too big” because of your arrival.

Obviously this is a complex and involved topic, I could continue on for many more hours typing on the topic, but I’ll stop for now.

Please, if you have specific questions of me related to actions and plans of Sumter County, I would ask that you direct them to my county email address or call my office at the county and not ask me to address them here. I’ll discuss general topics, some of my opinions, and historical issues here, but always with an eye to being in compliance with the Florida Sunshine Laws and public records keeping requirements.[/QUOTE]

Pilodent 03-14-2023 03:20 PM

The essay on growth & development was way too long..

Stu from NYC 03-14-2023 03:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pilodent (Post 2197829)
The essay on growth & development was way too long..

Sorry but think it covered everything it needed too. I learned a lot.

Nobody forces you to read the whole thing.

npwalters 03-14-2023 04:16 PM

[QUOTE=kansasr;2197772]
Quote:

Originally Posted by LuvNH (Post 2197708)

We are already under a holding company, The Villages Land Holding Company, LLC

Good point. If you think it is a friendly family run business - try to speak one on one with any person at the decision maker level.

Bogie Shooter 03-14-2023 04:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pilodent (Post 2197829)
The essay on growth & development was way too long..

Why did you repost the whole thing?

jimjamuser 03-14-2023 04:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spinner1001 (Post 2197227)
This is a straw man fallacy.
Straw Man Fallacy | Excelsior Online Writing Lab

Please stop. No one said the developer is doing things for only altruistic reasons, which is what you imply. That’s just silly.

The profit motive of capitalism does come with altruistic benefits. It has brought much of the world out of extreme poverty. Is it perfect? No, it has blemishes certainly. But other systems have performed worse.

It’s a time to celebrate. We live in the most prosperous and healthiest time in human history.




Nonsense. This is a similar argument that capitalism is not sustainable and will kill the planet. The argument is often made by anti-capitalists with socialist leanings. Again, capitalism has blemishes but things are very unlikely to collapse.

For those who want to learn more about whether capitalism is sustainable, here is a (long) lecture from a Duke University professor.
https://youtu.be/6dVSOIiO_U8

(I suspect that cherry picked counter examples are about to come.)

I am disagreeing with the line about our living in the most prosperous time in history. That would depend on what point on the income spectrum you exist at. If you are one of the upper 1% of US society then maybe YES. But if you are in the vanishing US middle class - then NO.
.........To prove that, people were asked if they thought that their generation was better off than their PREVIOUS generation. After 1970 the answer was most often ......a resounding .....NO !

rustyp 03-14-2023 04:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bogie Shooter (Post 2197851)
Why did you repost the whole thing?

///// reminiscing

jimjamuser 03-14-2023 05:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rustyp (Post 2197795)
A direct post by Don Wiley from the past referring to a rumor of reducing flower bed plantings:

"Having set through multiple budget meetings and workshops this year for several of the numbered (residential) districts, and PWAC, this was never discussed in any of these meetings. Specifically, this would have been covered by the PWAC budget for the Project Wide Fund, and neither the subject of reducing the plantings nor funding fireworks displays was discussed. The multi-year landscape contracts call for 4 bedding plant replacements per year and these contracts have not been modified to reduce the number of plantings."

I could do without any planting of flowers on the roundabouts. Also, some plants are overgrown and from a safety point of view, they block a driver's view. Also, the planting crews trucks cause a safety hazard. Plant some Florida-friendly bushes that need little water, plant them back from the traffic, and leave the damn things in the ground !

Lisanp@aol.com 03-14-2023 05:24 PM

And the amenity fees are tied to the CPI, which last time I checked the developer also has zero control or influence of…

Lisanp@aol.com 03-14-2023 05:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JMintzer (Post 2197460)
The Developers don't control your taxes, your utilities, or your insurance rates...

The only thing they control are the amenities fees, which, imho, are a bargain for what you get in return...

And the amenity fees are tied to the CPI, which last time I checked the developer also has zero control or influence of…

Bill14564 03-14-2023 05:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lisanp@aol.com (Post 2197869)
And the amenity fees are tied to the CPI, which last time I checked the developer also has zero control or influence of…

The developer does not control the CPI but he does control the amenity fees


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