Talk of The Villages Florida

Talk of The Villages Florida (https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/)
-   The Villages, Florida, General Discussion (https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/villages-florida-general-discussion-73/)
-   -   Something to think about-plastic bags (https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/villages-florida-general-discussion-73/something-think-about-plastic-bags-361098/)

OrangeBlossomBaby 09-07-2025 09:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fdpaq0580 (Post 2459474)
Good, but not perfect.
Several searches noted that trash to energy systems reduce landfill by around 90% from what was brought in. The ash that goes into the ground contains materials no longer recyclable (glass, metals, etc) along with various toxins, heavy metals and microplastics. The steam and gasses that goes into the air contains CO2, nitrogen, and other greenhouse gasses, toxins, ash and microplastics.
So, good, but not perfect. And it's expensive to build and operate.

The metals are removed during the process, before the ash is contained and brought to the landfill. Glass is silica - the same material as beach sand. Beach sand isn't recyclable either but no one seems to object to it. Maybe because it's glass, in the form of beach sand rather than glass, in the form of microparticles of burned sand? The steam and gasses do NOT go into the air. That's the point of a closed system. The steam and gasses go through pipes, becoming energy, and used to power the system.

ton80 09-07-2025 10:51 AM

Incineration Is NOT a Closed System
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by OrangeBlossomBaby (Post 2459559)
The metals are removed during the process, before the ash is contained and brought to the landfill. Glass is silica - the same material as beach sand. Beach sand isn't recyclable either but no one seems to object to it. Maybe because it's glass, in the form of beach sand rather than glass, in the form of microparticles of burned sand? The steam and gasses do NOT go into the air. That's the point of a closed system. The steam and gasses go through pipes, becoming energy, and used to power the system.

Incineration is not a closed system. FDAQ response is correct. There is some metals recovery by capturing magnetic material but other materials such as glass. aluminum, etc. go to the combustion process and generally become parts of ash going to landfill.
Steam produced in the boilers go to a condensing steam turbine which produces power. The steam is condensed, recovered, treated, and used again in steam generation with some additional external treated Boiler Feedwater..
The gaseous products of combustion are treated to reduce solids by filtration and liquid scrubbing.
The remaining products of combustion are exhausted to the atmosphere. This stack discharge includes CO2, NOx, so2 etc.
I could not find any real specific description of the actual treating at Covanta so I can not guestimate what reductions are made to NOx and SO2. My guess is not much. Reducing NOx requires catalyst beds , precise temperature control, and injecting Ammonia. Removing SO2 requires precise temperature and pH control and using very specific metallurgy to withstand, erosive corrosive water washing conditions of the exhaust gases.

The non combustibles in the garbage stream such as glass and small metal pieces etc. become the material sent to landfill. Any solids recovered in bag filters and water washing are added to the landfill stream.

Pugchief 09-07-2025 11:42 AM

1 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by coffeebean (Post 2459449)
I don't know what search engine you use but Google came up with plenty. Pick one..........
do paper bags carry insect larvae - Google Search

You stated that the new paper shopping bags at the grocery stores already had insect larvae. That's not what you searched, which was how bags at your home can pick up larvae. Try this search:

do new paper grocery bags carry insect larvae

and get this result:

fdpaq0580 09-07-2025 11:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OrangeBlossomBaby (Post 2459559)
That's the point of a closed system. .

The system is definitely not closed. Open for input, open for output. Trash/garbage is incinerated (burned), not disintegrated or dematerialized. It isn't magic, just an upgraded fire pit. As a child in L. A., all houses used to have incinerator in the back yard for burning trash. Cleaning out the ash was one of my chores. Lot of smog back then.

Velvet 09-07-2025 11:52 AM

California, huh? That explains a lot. My hubby went to school there.

fdpaq0580 09-07-2025 11:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pugchief (Post 2459582)
You stated that the new paper shopping bags at the grocery stores already had insect larvae. That's not what you searched, which was how bags at your home can pick up larvae. Try this search:

do new paper grocery bags carry insect larvae

and get this result:

Thank you.
So, during manufacture bugs are less likely, and become more likely after manufacture depending on conditions like heat and moisture during transport and storage.
Fair enough!

fdpaq0580 09-07-2025 12:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Velvet (Post 2459585)
California, huh? That explains a lot. My hubby went to school there.

"Explains a lot"? Have no idea what that is supposed to mean. That was then (post WWII), this is now.
Assume that "hubby" got a good education.

Velvet 09-07-2025 12:34 PM

My hubby was (has passed away now) a very dedicated environmentalist. Sometimes, in his honor, I still do a lot of stuff I wouldn’t do because I don’t think it is justified but I know he would ….

Darield 09-07-2025 01:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrianL99 (Post 2458953)
Something to think about?

This won't make my Top 1000 things to think about, it's all fake news.

It's unfortunate that there is so much fake news but not everything is fake news. Where do you think 60 million plastic bags go? Have you ever talked with some of the amazing people who help our sick and suffering wildlife? Many of the studies will list where the study was done. Plastic contamination is more of an inconvenient truth than fake news. Microplastics found embedded in tissues of whales and dolphins | ScienceDaily

Darield 09-07-2025 01:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OrangeBlossomBaby (Post 2458956)
If you keep them out of the garbage, then what do you do with them, when it's time to discard them (if they get torn, or dirty)?

Something you can do, when it is time to toss them in the trash - is cut the handles. It prevents critters from sticking their heads through the hole and being unable to dislodge the bag from their neck. You should do that with 6-pack plastic doodads as well.

At this time my goal is to reduce my plastic use since eliminating it is not realistic. Some of my reusable bags are 5 years old. I wipe them out regularly. When I was up North, I bought several reusable bags made from plastic water bottles. That was over a year ago.

Darield 09-07-2025 01:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by La lamy (Post 2459028)
Years ago up north, they started charging 5 cents per plastic bag which led a lot of people to reuse. Now most grocery stores don't even offer plastic bags. You bring your own, or pay for a sturdy reusable bag.
As far as garbage is concerned, I agree, plastic bags are necessary. But I strongly disagree with the grocery size plastic bags being used for single use dog waste. What a waste!!! Even the smaller grocery veggie bags or buying dog waste bags seems a lot more reasonable IMHO.

I agree. We use biodegradable dog bags which are 1/3 the size of a grocery bag.

Darield 09-07-2025 01:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pugchief (Post 2459168)
Less pollution is always preferrable to more. I am certain that smart humans or AI will devise a better alternative at some point. Until then, we're still going to need plastics even if they're less than ideal.

The goal is to reduce, not eliminate at this time. It is so easy to keep reusable bags in my car. I am sorry people don't wipe them out but I do. So easy to take an extra minute to clean a reusable bag.

Darield 09-07-2025 01:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Whatnext (Post 2459253)
Have you tried picking up a squidgy dog poop with a paper bag?

I buy biodegradable dog poop bags.

Darield 09-07-2025 01:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by coffeebean (Post 2459445)
I prefer to let the incineration plant take care of my plastic bags. I just throw them in the trash. Easier for me and my plastic bags are creating energy.

it's crucial to understand why incinerating plastic is not just ill-advised—it's a potential catastrophe waiting to unfold. The Toxic Truth: Why Burning Plastic Waste Is a Health and Environmental Disaster | Plastics For Change.

Velvet 09-07-2025 01:32 PM

Another story to try to scare you, you understand that it doesn’t work on most of us? Some of it is true. And that part I agree with. The problem is the fanaticism that comes across, akin to Stalinist Communism. It just turns off a lot of people. The more you try to explain, and enforce, the more they turn away. A possibly better approach might be to reward “good” behavior. Not sure exactly how yet, but I’m thinking.

Djean1981 09-07-2025 02:42 PM

Your smartphone is mainly plastic...

fdpaq0580 09-07-2025 02:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Velvet (Post 2459601)
My hubby was (has passed away now) a very dedicated environmentalist. Sometimes, in his honor, I still do a lot of stuff I wouldn’t do because I don’t think it is justified but I know he would ….

Sorry for your loss.
A dedicated environmentalist would put my poor efforts to shame. I always try to consider the long term effects of my choices. For example, I drive a 2015 Tucson (purchased new), limit my travel to little more than absolute necessity, and combine multiple trips whenever possible. My carbon "tiretrack", is less than if I replaced it with a new ev, considering the costs, both financial and environmental. I pull weeds in my yard, I don't poison them or the ground. I have no living children, so it isn't about leaving a better planet for my kids. It's ethics, I guess. Trying to do the right thing as I believe it to be. Do as little harm as possible while still enjoying the last few days. No one person can do it alone.

Velvet 09-07-2025 03:29 PM

Yes, but let me try another approach, no matter how good or kind, say Mother Theresa was, had she kept hitting people over the head with her rosary because they weren’t Catholic, she would have turned even the ones who were considering it, away.

I think, that showing by example, as you are doing, is one excellent way to “pave the path” so to speak.

OrangeBlossomBaby 09-08-2025 09:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darield (Post 2459614)
I buy biodegradable dog poop bags.

"Biodegradable" is not what you think it is.

1. They don't break down easily in a natural environment.
2. When they do break down (eventually, after many years), they break down into microplastics - the very thing that people are now concerned about.
3. They are not 100% compostable. Only 20% of their makeup has to be compostable. That's why #1 and #2 are true; because 80% of the components that make up the bag will not compost.
4. They produce methane while they are in landfills.
5. They're made with polymerized plastic - which is plastic, which requires fossil fuels to make, exactly the same fossil fuels that normal plastic bags use.

fdpaq0580 09-08-2025 04:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Velvet (Post 2459618)
Another story to try to scare you, you understand that it doesn’t work on most of us? Some of it is true. And that part I agree with. The problem is the fanaticism that comes across, akin to Stalinist Communism. It just turns off a lot of people. The more you try to explain, and enforce, the more they turn away. A possibly better approach might be to reward “good” behavior. Not sure exactly how yet, but I’m thinking.

Designed to scare us? Of course! And we should be scared. Scared, as in concerned. Not scared as in mindless panic.
The "fanaticism", as you negatively portray it, is really just folks that recognize a problem that needs fixing and are ready to get to work on it. Those that refuse to recognize the problem or paint the problem as not of importance of requiring immediate action don't want to be bothered by the inconvenience to their lifestyle.
Maybe the reward for "good behavior" you mention could be leaving behind a cleaner, healthier world? Or, maybe you would rather have a cookie? (Just teasing. Please don't be angry)

PS. Just between us, I want the cleaner, healthier world AND a cookie ... chocolate chip.

fdpaq0580 09-08-2025 04:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OrangeBlossomBaby (Post 2459710)
"Biodegradable" is not what you think it is.

1. They don't break down easily in a natural environment.
2. When they do break down (eventually, after many years), they break down into microplastics - the very thing that people are now concerned about.
3. They are not 100% compostable. Only 20% of their makeup has to be compostable. That's why #1 and #2 are true; because 80% of the components that make up the bag will not compost.
4. They produce methane while they are in landfills.
5. They're made with polymerized plastic - which is plastic, which requires fossil fuels to make, exactly the same fossil fuels that normal plastic bags use.

Plastic is forever!

Pugchief 09-08-2025 04:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fdpaq0580 (Post 2459798)
The "fanaticism", as you negatively portray it, is really just folks that recognize a problem that needs fixing and are ready to get to work on it.

No, that's not what it is. It's a religious fervor that wants the plebs to give up airline travel and air conditioning, while the elites fly on private jets and live in palaces with private security.

I am happy to recognize the benefit of good stewardship of the planet, and do what I can within reason. These fanatics are not reasonable.

fdpaq0580 09-09-2025 11:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pugchief (Post 2459805)
No, that's not what it is. It's a religious fervor that wants the plebs to give up airline travel and air conditioning, while the elites fly on private jets and live in palaces with private security.

I am happy to recognize the benefit of good stewardship of the planet, and do what I can within reason. These fanatics are not reasonable.

Guess we will have to agree to disagree. And I still maintain that what seems reasonable to one may seem unreasonable to another. Purely subjective, imho.


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:32 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2025, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Search Engine Optimisation provided by DragonByte SEO v2.0.32 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2025 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.